Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[Smif]

MM should be Rantanen’s money, which is 12mil.

13mil means 3rd highest player in the league. And I think even his diehard fans know he should not be the 3rd highest paid player in the league.

12.5mil would be state tax adjusted the same as Rantanen. Add to that he's going to hit free agency so it will be inflated further. 1.5M more to hit FA, I could see it.

In 07-08 the top three salaries in the NHL were Vanek, Briere, and Gomez. Should they have been the top three highest paid players?

With Drai, MacKinnon, and Matthews all signed long term, Marner will likely take the top spot until McDavid signs next year.

 

[Stephen]

We don't watch the same game...

I think what you're unable to understand is you can't expect Marner playing and having succes with the Knies way like you can't think knies would had succes playing the Marner or Nylander way, they don't have the same tool. That doesn't mean Marner is affraid of contact or whatever, just he don't have physicality to play that style so if he just trying to play ground and pound game. You will not win any fight if yoir plan is to see Marner/Nylander/ Domi/ Robertson by exemple winning 1v1 physical battle, they don't have physicality for this.... So if ypu expect those player start playing that game, they will just become useless.

They need to get the job done by an other way... By their intensity, speed and stick play to overcome physicality weakness and that's Marner actually doing. So yeah Knies and Matthews winning more 1v1 physical, it's their strenght

Bergeron who's maybe the best 2 way center of last 20 years was not physical at all but was just so smart than he had the ability to put himself in the right spot

Sure if youbwaiting to see marner in front of rhe net trying to win physicsl battle against 2 big dman, that will never happen because those kind of player will never win that fight.

The same way than patrick kane

When it comes to the rough stuff in the playoffs, Marner is clearly more intimidated than not when that aspect of the game gets ratcheted up. There's a stylistic argument, that's not his game whatever, ok. There's a physical argument, maybe he's not built for it. But when you compare him to other skilled guys, other small guys, he definitely doesn't pay the pull price to get something difficult done historically in the playoffs. He can change that.

 

[LeafEgo]

I think a lot of it is just people around here upset that they are going to lose another of their dumb talking points. “Ack-tually, he’s not a 100 point player he’s never really reached 100.”

If he gets stuck at 99 again it doesn't change much. Same as if he finishes with 101 or 102. I hope he hits it though, as a personal milestone accomplishment.

He's not in the McD, Mack, Kuch, Drai, Matty, Pasta, Ranta, Chucky club is all. That's not some terrible thing, but let's compensate appropriately.

 

[therealkoho]

MM should be Rantanen’s money, which is 12mil.

13mil means 3rd highest player in the league. And I think even his diehard fans know he should not be the 3rd highest paid player in the league.

Just like Matthews should be nowhere near being the highest paid, but he is.

 

[Gabriel426]

12.5mil would be state tax adjusted the same as Rantanen. Add to that he's going to hit free agency so it will be inflated further. 1.5M more to hit FA, I could see it.

In 07-08 the top three salaries in the NHL were Vanek, Briere, and Gomez. Should they have been the top three highest paid players?

With Drai, MacKinnon, and Matthews all signed long term, Marner will likely take the top spot until McDavid signs next year.

I am not going to deny there will be GM out there that offers MM 13 or even 14mil for many reasons including creating buzz. But does that have to be the Leafs esp if it is another first round exit.
Perry was signed to 4mil by the Hawks just a few yrs back, does that make him worth 4mil at that time or it was just the Hawks team wanting to overpaid him for whatever reason.

As for state tax adjustment, how about advertising adjustment. There is no way MM will have as much endorsement money playing for the Stars compare to the Leafs.

Did Vanek, Brière and Gomez worth their contract? Did they deserve to be top 3 paid in the league? The answer is no. Thanks for proving my point on MM not worth being the top 3 player in the league.

 

[Gabriel426]

Just like Matthews should be nowhere near being the highest paid, but he is.

And that’s why AM is a beta choker just like the rest of the Core until proven otherwise. Also why Leafs only won ONE playoffs series in the AM era.

 

[notdoneyet]

And that’s why AM is a beta choker just like the rest of the Core until proven otherwise. Also why Leafs only won ONE playoffs series in the AM era.

IMO matthews is the biggest choker of them all. According to most posters on here matthews is a tier above Willy and Mitch. Some will point out all his hardware and a 69 goal scorer and because of this he is the number one leaf of all time. BUT he has done nothing for us in the playoffs. Because he is so much better than anyone else on the team he should be able to carry us on his back to the cup. Matthews chokes more than anyone on our team.

 

[francis246]

IMO matthews is the biggest choker of them all. According to most posters on here matthews is a tier above Willy and Mitch. Some will point out all his hardware and a 69 goal scorer and because of this he is the number one leaf of all time. BUT he has done nothing for us in the playoffs. Because he is so much better than anyone else on the team he should be able to carry us on his back to the cup. Matthews chokes more than anyone on our team.

Thank you! I made this exact comment two days ago. You have to factor in expectations vs production. If Matthews is the best of the three he’s been the biggest let down based on the expectations of him being the franchise center man and cornerstone.

 

[thusk]

When it comes to the rough stuff in the playoffs, Marner is clearly more intimidated than not when that aspect of the game gets ratcheted up. There's a stylistic argument, that's not his game whatever, ok. There's a physical argument, maybe he's not built for it. But when you compare him to other skilled guys, other small guys, he definitely doesn't pay the pull price to get something difficult done historically in the playoffs. He can change that.

If he play like he did vs Tampa or like he did in 3-2 win vs Florida. He did it... and it's not different to what it's gonna look in playoff.

like i said last summer, i'm pretty sure Berube north/south system will help a guy like him to just to keep his game simple and stop overthinking

And the fact goaltending are better this season than last 4 years will also help every player in the team to play more confident and to don't be affraid to make mistake.

The difference between winning and losing are extremely thin... leafs 3-2 win was looking pretty similar of a reversed result of gm 1-2 of florida - leafs serie. Stolarz had been solid, kept the game time and gave a chance to his teammate to make something happen and it's what they did... Put campbell/Samsonov the way they played last 4 in playoff/key game and this one resulting as a lost
-last game vs florida unstead of stay only 1 game away even a awful game, with Campbell/Samsonov it would be a 5-1 lost..
-Last game vs Tampa who maybe also resulting in a lost

and the only thing we would remembered is how leafs chocking when it really matter unstead of how great knies, marner matthews had been in general and helped the leafs to win 2 of those 3. Again difference between succes and fail are thin

 

[ACC1224]

IMO matthews is the biggest choker of them all. According to most posters on here matthews is a tier above Willy and Mitch. Some will point out all his hardware and a 69 goal scorer and because of this he is the number one leaf of all time. BUT he has done nothing for us in the playoffs. Because he is so much better than anyone else on the team he should be able to carry us on his back to the cup. Matthews chokes more than anyone on our team.

Biggest difference of course is we like Matthews dad and he didn’t shoot the puck over the glass about 5 years ago.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The biggest difference is Matthews isn't a mouthpiece.

If Matthews shot his mouth off the same way Marner did nobody would like him either. Marner's play isn't the reason fans don't like him. Even though it does leave something to be desired.

Fans don't like Marner because he's a snivelling unaccountable baby.

Who blames the bottom of the roster for losing anyway. I've only ever heard one player do that before. The exact same player who has never once owned up for his own poor play.

It's easier to point the finger outward than inward.

For every finger you point there's gonna be ten pointing back at you. In Marner's case it's an entire team and fan base returning the favour. Fans are more tolerant of Matthews shortcomings in the playoffs than Marner's for one reason and one reason only.

Matthews is smart enough to answer with whatever canned response ML$Epr taught him.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Biggest difference of course is we like Matthews dad and he didn’t shoot the puck over the glass about 5 years ago.

I love the many will point out that he has scored more goals in a season than all but nine other players in the history of the game or point to his six major awards as reasons he's our best player but they are wrong comments. You can't do anything but laugh at this stuff.

 

[Confucius]

MM should be Rantanen’s money, which is 12mil.

13mil means 3rd highest player in the league. And I think even his diehard fans know he should not be the 3rd highest paid player in the league.

Wonder how much more Mitch would be worth if he was the one who had a 55 goal season… presently he is worth less than Rantanen.

 

[authentic]

Well isn’t it true that the better team usually/always win in a best of 7 series.

Well, yes, that’s what I said

I just don’t see how anyone could watch these games and say these players don’t care. If they didn’t care they would be swept in most of those series, because quite frankly we’ve seen them play when they don’t care and they are bad, bad, bad… like outplaying Tampa the first time even when we lost, beating them the 2nd time, outhitting and outshooting all these teams, Matthews blocking more shots than any forward etc., those don’t happen when a team isn’t going balls to the wall facing another elite team who’s also going balls to the wall

 

[Confucius]

IMO matthews is the biggest choker of them all. According to most posters on here matthews is a tier above Willy and Mitch. Some will point out all his hardware and a 69 goal scorer and because of this he is the number one leaf of all time. BUT he has done nothing for us in the playoffs. Because he is so much better than anyone else on the team he should be able to carry us on his back to the cup. Matthews chokes more than anyone on our team.

If Marner had had a 69 goal season as well as a 60, earning 3 rockets, a hart a Lindsay, how much would he be asking? My guess is the full 20% max allowable.

 

[kevsh]

If Matthews is the best of the three he’s been the biggest let down based on the expectations of him being the franchise center man and cornerstone.

What's so strange about it is of the Four he's the only one that I've seen make visible adjustments to his game over the years and yet he still can't push through.

One thing that might help is if he's far more aggressive breaking into the offensive zone. As it is, I swear, over 95% (quite literally 95%) of his zone entries he backhands to the player on the near wall then heads, usually at mid-speed, toward the net.

Just once in awhile even just to keep the defenders honest, fake the hand off and HIT THE LINE LIKE A RAGING BULL AND DRIVEE THE PUCK TO THE ***** NET! I get that he's no MacKinnon (there's only one) but he's capable of that kind of rush.

As it is his line is way too predictable and easy to contain in big part because they seem content hanging around the perimeter and not forcing/fighting their way to the front. Knies will help in that department, but Mitch and Auston simply have to do it as well.

 

[ACC1224]

If Marner had had a 69 goal season as well as a 60, earning 3 rockets, a hart a Lindsay, how much would he be asking? My guess is the full 20% max allowable.

Why not just stick to reality instead of making up these fantasies as an attempt to prove some non existent point?

 

[authentic]

Thank you! I made this exact comment two days ago. You have to factor in expectations vs production. If Matthews is the best of the three he’s been the biggest let down based on the expectations of him being the franchise center man and cornerstone.

I mean defensively he’s been quite amazing and also unable to shoot very well and often injured (but yet still came up with some clutch goals in the Tampa series which were the only reason we won), but at the end of the day he does need to produce more going forward or that’s going to end up looking like a lousy playoff resume when it’s all said and done for a 69 goal scoring Hart winner, and by far the best goal scorer of his generation.

 

[Confucius]

Why not just stick to reality instead of making up these fantasies as an attempt to prove some non existent point?

It is reality comparing what one teammate has accomplished to the other. You are correct though it is fantasy to expect Mitch to accomplish the same.

 

[ACC1224]

It is reality comparing what one teammate has accomplished to the other. You are correct though it is fantasy to expect Mitch to accomplish the same.

Not surprised you completely missed the point.

 

[Mess]

If Marner had had a 69 goal season as well as a 60, earning 3 rockets, a hart a Lindsay, how much would he be asking? My guess is the full 20% max allowable.

Matthews makes $13.25 mil based on those accomplishments.

I know Marner has claimed in the past that Matthews is his only comparable contract wise, when pulling the wool over a greenhorn GM's eyes during the last contract. I sure hope Leafs management and/or Leafs fans aren't hoping he does it again and wants more than Auston this time round.

BT attempted to trade Marner for Rantanen at TD, and he just signed for 8 years $12 mil recently. Since Rantanen is one to the top 5 playoff performers over the past 5 years.

I sure hope Leafs aren't looking to exceed that amount with Marner unless he has an outstanding playoffs in 2025,

 

[IPS]

12.5mil would be state tax adjusted the same as Rantanen. Add to that he's going to hit free agency so it will be inflated further. 1.5M more to hit FA, I could see it.

In 07-08 the top three salaries in the NHL were Vanek, Briere, and Gomez. Should they have been the top three highest paid players?

With Drai, MacKinnon, and Matthews all signed long term, Marner will likely take the top spot until McDavid signs next year.

So if I go back and look at all contracts signed by players on Canadian teams they're all going to be "tax adjusted"?

How consistent is this do you figure?

 

[ACC1224]

Matthews makes $13.25 mil based on those accomplishments.

I know Marner has claimed in the past that Matthews is his only comparable contract wise, when pulling the wool over a greenhorn GM's eyes during the last contract. I sure hope Leafs management and/or Leafs fans aren't hoping he does it again and wants more than Auston this time round.

BT attempted to trade Marner for Rantanen at TD, and he just signed for 8 years $12 mil recently. Since Rantanen is one to the top 5 playoff performers over the past 5 years.

View attachment 1011463

I sure hope Leafs aren't looking to exceed that amount with Marner unless he has an outstanding playoffs in 2025,

Nope

 

[Gabriel426]

IMO matthews is the biggest choker of them all. According to most posters on here matthews is a tier above Willy and Mitch. Some will point out all his hardware and a 69 goal scorer and because of this he is the number one leaf of all time. BUT he has done nothing for us in the playoffs. Because he is so much better than anyone else on the team he should be able to carry us on his back to the cup. Matthews chokes more than anyone on our team.

100% agree

 

[Gabriel426]

Well, yes, that’s what I said

I just don’t see how anyone could watch these games and say these players don’t care. If they didn’t care they would be swept in most of those series, because quite frankly we’ve seen them play when they don’t care and they are bad, bad, bad… like outplaying Tampa the first time even when we lost, beating them the 2nd time, outhitting and outshooting all these teams, Matthews blocking more shots than any forward etc., those don’t happen when a team isn’t going balls to the wall facing another elite team who’s also going balls to the wall

It is not about not caring bc I don’t think that the case at all.
Rather it’s how far are they going to go to win. Over the past playoffs, it always seemed like they(core 5) are waiting for someone else to do something then they will follow instead of taking the lead themselves. It is not about starting a fight or big hits….it’s about not having a shift that is just meh.

How many past playoffs games can we honestly recall at this moment that one of the Core 5 dominated? Not many, and that’s the problem, they played 6 playoffs together.