Mitch Marner, Yet Again

I highly doubt it is even close to "every". It's also dependant on how much. If someone asked me if I enjoy playing video games. I would say yes. However, I haven't played a video game in over a year.

So Marner loves playing video games a lot; that shouldn't be a big deal. I'm pretty sure when not playing hockey, Woll is playing his piano as much as possible and nobody bats an eye over that.
 
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He would definitly train in such a way that makes him most effective on the ice and for his team.

Yes and he does not have the raw speed to train for strength. His trainers would say you're going to lose too much speed and your game nimbleness so.

I don't get what the problem with he comment is. Strength is important in physical series though.
 
So Marner loves playing video games a lot; that shouldn't be a big deal. I'm pretty sure when not playing hockey, Woll is playing his piano as much as possible and nobody bats an eye over that.

It's not a big deal other then he lacks strength. I imagine if she worked out for strength there would be speed and maneuverability issues.

Long night..
 
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Yes and he does not have the raw speed to train for strength. His trainers would say you're going to lose too much speed and your game nimbleness so.

I don't get what the problem with he comment is. Strength is important in physical series though.
As a team, sure there has to be strength and toughness. As individual players, they will do what most benifits the team.
 
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It's not a big deal other then he lacks strength. I imagine if she worked out for strength there would be speed and maneuverability issues.

Long night..

I don't know what his workout routine is and whether more strengthening needs to be added and whether or not he's chosing to play fornite and neglecting his excercise. Now if someone could provide concrete evidence that he's lazy that way, I could get onboard.
 
I don't know what his workout routine is and whether more strengthening needs to be added and whether or not he's chosing to play fornite and neglecting his excercise. Now if someone could provide concrete evidence that he's lazy that way, I could get onboard.

He is doing the right things for him to succeed. Sadly that doesn't translate into hard fought series success unless he can prove otherwise this year.
 
I don't know what his workout routine is and whether more strengthening needs to be added and whether or not he's chosing to play fornite and neglecting his excercise. Now if someone could provide concrete evidence that he's lazy that way, I could get onboard.
Well if he is playing video games, he should have strong thumbs.
 
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Nobody has ever said that goals don't matter. That's just you pretending not to understand what people have said. People have told you not to cherry pick ONLY goals while ignoring other information to misrepresent players. That doesn't mean cherry pick other information and ignore goals instead. It means look at the whole damn picture and compare properly.

Except this is exactly what to refuse to do. You refuse to look at the whole picture. Totals matter. Goals matter more than assists. This is established in the rules of the game(most goals wins). The record books (total goals, total points vs per game records) and awards (no primary assists award. No assists awards tie breaker is goals for Ross).

Rantanen in his contract scored more points and more goals and got way less. That is the whole picture. You try to make these ridiculous parsing out of PP goals and empty net etc. the full picture are the stats I present. Marner is better if you ignore the parts of the game rantanen is better at. Ok…..

You refuse to look at it. There is nothing to suggest that PP goals are worth less in contracts.

The whole picture is not whatever you want it to be. It’s kind of crazy. Maybe, just maybe you don’t know more than the record books, the rules, GMs. AI.

You literally laughed at a person for using AI….. but trust me bro about a study you did 5 years and 2 computers ago? It’s really silly.
 
Except this is exactly what to refuse to do. You refuse to look at the whole picture. Totals matter. Goals matter more than assists. This is established in the rules of the game(most goals wins). The record books (total goals, total points vs per game records) and awards (no primary assists award. No assists awards tie breaker is goals for Ross).

Rantanen in his contract scored more points and more goals and got way less. That is the whole picture. You try to make these ridiculous parsing out of PP goals and empty net etc. the full picture are the stats I present. Marner is better if you ignore the parts of the game rantanen is better at. Ok…..

You refuse to look at it. There is nothing to suggest that PP goals are worth less in contracts.

The whole picture is not whatever you want it to be. It’s kind of crazy. Maybe, just maybe you don’t know more than the record books, the rules, GMs. AI.

You literally laughed at a person for using AI….. but trust me bro about a study you did 5 years and 2 computers ago? It’s really silly.
Goals don't matter more than total points.

The top 10 all time lists has 2 players likely better goal scorers than play maker in OV and Bobby Hull.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Crosby, Mcdavid, Jagr all being better play makers and overall offemse generators than goal scorers.

If goals mattered the most then OV would be the GOAT or at least viewed as better than Jagr/Crosby all time when hes generally seen as 9/10 all time despite now all time leading 895 goals.

There being no assists award is a dumb exclusion and oversight by the league. I assume with gretzky previously holding all time pts, goals and assists records they didmt want to add another award after adding the rocket in the 90s.

Now that he doesnt hold all three, the NHL should create a trophy after Gretzky for most assists to recongize the best play makers in the league.

Now that Gretzky has officially lost the Goals record they could look to create that award to honor him and the purer playmakers of the game.

The ross+hart+lindsay already cover the best players in the league. With the best players usually being those who win or finish very high for these awards vs finishing high in the rocket only (OV this year is 3rd for the rocket but not a top 10 player in the league and Nylander is 2nd for the rocket but isnt a top 15 player in the league)

If goals mattered as much across the league we would see Matthews ahead of Mackinnon/Draisaitl/Kucherov for hart/lindsay awards.

Offense generation and production matters. Whether its primary, secondary, PP driven, 5v5 driven, 3v3, Empty net fueled etc, as long as a player is repeatedly producing amd is in a very high spot relative to his peers, the manner of his production split isnt important so long as its sustained over years of play.

The absolute best players produce consistently across scoring environments and in reg season vs playoffs too (big 4 players and makar for example remaining extremely productive come playoffs)

Marner vs Rantanen isnt about goals vs assists. They both have been top 10 or so in the league in pts and ppg since 2018-2019 season which shows both are elite/top end regular season players.

They are very similar producers in the reg season for their whole careers with Rantanen also killing It in the playoffs.

If you have two similar producing wingers, you would take the less physically challanged winger who has a repeated/sustained history of being extremely productive in the playoffs.
 
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Great question.

I've posted numerous times that Sportsnet Reporter in 2019 showed an advance stat in sports logiq that tracked "scoring chance generating plays" which tracks how often a player generates scoring chance for a teammate. One would expect playmaker Marner, who shouldn't be judged on his goal stats, would be among the leaders in this category right?

Well he's wasn't even the 1st or 2nd or 3rd on the list for his own team!

The order in the league that year: 1)Mcdavid 2)Crosby 3)Matthews, 12)Tavares, 22)Nylander, 26)Marner.

Here's the highlight quotes:

"Not bad 26th in entire league, but 4th on the leaf and also not far ahead of former leaf Nazem Kadri"

"Marner isn't the guy driving the bus on hisnline, it's Tavares"

"This is a thing with John Tavares, linemates have career seasons with him"

"Marner might be the most overrated player in the NHL because the Toronto presence is so powerful"

Marner fans rebuttals? "Lol Berkshire is an idiot!"

Yep, alot like there other favorite rebuttals:
"LOL you admitted you don't watch games, so your a liar"

Or "you cherry picked that number"

Or "that is too small a sample size"

Notice how they don't come back with stats as rebuttals?
Sorry, but that doesn't even remotely correlate with my eye test, and many others.
When that's the case (across the board doesn't agree with the eye test at least at a 80% rate or higher) I tend to ignore it, unless faced with something more tangible.

Walk me through how they come up with that stat please.
 
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When Marner is hiding up high, how is he helping them work to get position for a high danger chance? Marner does no heavy lifting at all. He is not any better a playmaker than Nylander. He just does crap JRs get in shit for doing with a higher success rate.

TBH he is a soft as butter perimeter player cashing in on other people's hard work. He isn't a player you win with because he can't play with winning intensity.

If he had any other name, people would be saying to get rid of him after the MTL series. He is the best in the business at narrative building and brand building. That's his talent.
I wanted to ignore this comment because I find it very uneducated and prejudicial (for whatever reason) . . . but I'll pick at the first "thread" you mentioned:

"TBH he is a soft as butter perimeter player cashing in on other people's hard work."
So he carries the puck a lot, creates a lot of space and time and creates goals for others . . . but somehow that can be construed as "cashing in on other people's hard work" ?!?

That makes no sense at all. Cashing in . . . he's an assist guy, remember? A playmaker!
How does he "cash in" . . . he creates the chance, makes the nice play and elite pass, and he "cashes in" by getting an assist on a goal?
Is that your angle?

If not, please explain.
 
Yeah and we don’t need him to go in and be nasty, but make it known you’re not going to take shit, get in the mix. Don’t get hurt, but let them know you got a set of balls to stick up for yourself. Honestly last night made me a believer in this core and this team. They were very physical and played a complete game. If they can bring this effort with Stolarz in net, they are going to be a difficult team to beat.

Also we need Robertson in the line up for secondary scoring. Robertson/Patches in, Holmberg and Laughton out IMO.
Which only furthers why we spent what we did on him cause I agree 100%
 
I wanted to ignore this comment because I find it very uneducated and prejudicial (for whatever reason) . . . but I'll pick at the first "thread" you mentioned:

"TBH he is a soft as butter perimeter player cashing in on other people's hard work."
So he carries the puck a lot, creates a lot of space and time and creates goals for others . . . but somehow that can be construed as "cashing in on other people's hard work" ?!?

That makes no sense at all. Cashing in . . . he's an assist guy, remember? A playmaker!
How does he "cash in" . . . he creates the chance, makes the nice play and elite pass, and he "cashes in" by getting an assist on a goal?
Is that your angle?

If not, please explain.
Slozo.... what's your thoughts on all these playoff Marner videos from the past few years?:
Haha as a player and a coach.

This is a player who wouldn't be on my tteam.its not a hard decision either. And for 13% of the cap, this player will single handedly put you out of the playoffs.





@Leaf Fans , @Metroid , @francis246 , @Hellcat
@Smif

Got a few more doozies for you! I know you guys can spot a winner, because i apparently dont know ehat playing with heart and determination looks like and certainly can't spot a winner.

Few more plays to discuss:

Didn't Marner fans admit Marner also was very bad in game 3 vs Florida?

What about this widely talked about play vs Montreal where Marner let's Montreal get the puck because he's afraid to get hit? Tons of heart right... what an animal doing whatever it takes to win!



What about YEARS later vs Boston where he was caught doing it again but only even worse? Didn't Marner fans try to say it was smart lol that he dodge the hit and let Boston get the puck and easily clear the zone. Yep! The heart and determination ! Anyone whose played a sport would know that was what winners do!


So two replays of Marner literally gifting loose pucks to opponents. Hmm yea, who cares right, we didn't need those possessions! We can get the next ones!

Seeing a pattern yet? All these years of replays of Marner mailing it in and Marner fans are saying IM the one who isnt a leaf fan?
 
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Slozo.... what's your thoughts on all these playoff Marner videos from the past few years?:
"Got a few more doozies for you! I know you guys can spot a winner, because i apparently dont know ehat playing with heart and determination looks like and certainly can't spot a winner."

Perhaps it is because you are too busy searching out "doozies" instead of being objective.
 
Just saw the snippet from Overdrive where Siegel said Marner is more likely to leave than stay.

This is a brilliant negotiating tactic by the Marner team. If the message is “I want to stay” then the fans will say “why are you asking for so much money”. Now if he stays, fans will just be happy he chose Toronto and not care about the money.

He is flipping the narrative in real time.
Huh?

I think fans will be happy with playoffs success. Another first round exit, it is bye bye unless he takes a 9.5mil contract
 
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Goals don't matter more than total points.

The top 10 all time lists has 2 players likely better goal scorers than play maker in OV and Bobby Hull.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Crosby, Mcdavid, Jagr all being better play makers and overall offemse generators than goal scorers.

If goals mattered the most then OV would be the GOAT or at least viewed as better than Jagr/Crosby all time when hes generally seen as 9/10 all time despite now all time leading 895 goals.

There being no assists award is a dumb exclusion and oversight by the league. I assume with gretzky previously holding all time pts, goals and assists records they didmt want to add another award after adding the rocket in the 90s.

Now that he doesnt hold all three, the NHL should create a trophy after Gretzky for most assists to recongize the best play makers in the league.

Now that Gretzky has officially lost the Goals record they could look to create that award to honor him and the purer playmakers of the game.

The ross+hart+lindsay already cover the best players in the league. With the best players usually being those who win or finish very high for these awards vs finishing high in the rocket only (OV this year is 3rd for the rocket but not a top 10 player in the league and Nylander is 2nd for the rocket but isnt a top 15 player in the league)

If goals mattered as much across the league we would see Matthews ahead of Mackinnon/Draisaitl/Kucherov for hart/lindsay awards.

Offense generation and production matters. Whether its primary, secondary, PP driven, 5v5 driven, 3v3, Empty net fueled etc, as long as a player is repeatedly producing amd is in a very high spot relative to his peers, the manner of his production split isnt important so long as its sustained over years of play.

The absolute best players produce consistently across scoring environments and in reg season vs playoffs too (big 4 players and makar for example remaining extremely productive come playoffs)

Marner vs Rantanen isnt about goals vs assists. They both have been top 10 or so in the league in pts and ppg since 2018-2019 season which shows both are elite/top end regular season players.

They are very similar producers in the reg season for their whole careers with Rantanen also killing It in the playoffs.

If you have two similar producing wingers, you would take the less physically challanged winger who has a repeated/sustained history of being extremely productive in the playoffs.
You referenced a who's who list of the greatest goal scorers of all time to support the claim that goal scoring wasn't more important. Most of those players rank higher on the goal charts than the assist charts.

The more pucks you put in the net the more you get paid. Same with assists, to a lesser degree. Everything gets added together. This 'playmaker' tag was a red herring.

The 50 goal scorer McDavid isn't going to get less money because he gets 'too many' assists, that unfortunately push him into a playmaker category.
 
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"Got a few more doozies for you! I know you guys can spot a winner, because i apparently dont know ehat playing with heart and determination looks like and certainly can't spot a winner."

Perhaps it is because you are too busy searching out "doozies" instead of being obobjective.
Lol? Former players biz and Hrudey aren't being objective either?

Perhaps I remember these plays because I'm a leaf fan and want the team to win a cup and not a fan of just one singular player like you?
 
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Goals don't matter more than total points.

The top 10 all time lists has 2 players likely better goal scorers than play maker in OV and Bobby Hull.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Crosby, Mcdavid, Jagr all being better play makers and overall offemse generators than goal scorers.

If goals mattered the most then OV would be the GOAT or at least viewed as better than Jagr/Crosby all time when hes generally seen as 9/10 all time despite now all time leading 895 goals.

There being no assists award is a dumb exclusion and oversight by the league. I assume with gretzky previously holding all time pts, goals and assists records they didmt want to add another award after adding the rocket in the 90s.

Now that he doesnt hold all three, the NHL should create a trophy after Gretzky for most assists to recongize the best play makers in the league.

Now that Gretzky has officially lost the Goals record they could look to create that award to honor him and the purer playmakers of the game.

The ross+hart+lindsay already cover the best players in the league. With the best players usually being those who win or finish very high for these awards vs finishing high in the rocket only (OV this year is 3rd for the rocket but not a top 10 player in the league and Nylander is 2nd for the rocket but isnt a top 15 player in the league)

If goals mattered as much across the league we would see Matthews ahead of Mackinnon/Draisaitl/Kucherov for hart/lindsay awards.

Offense generation and production matters. Whether its primary, secondary, PP driven, 5v5 driven, 3v3, Empty net fueled etc, as long as a player is repeatedly producing amd is in a very high spot relative to his peers, the manner of his production split isnt important so long as its sustained over years of play.

The absolute best players produce consistently across scoring environments and in reg season vs playoffs too (big 4 players and makar for example remaining extremely productive come playoffs)

Marner vs Rantanen isnt about goals vs assists. They both have been top 10 or so in the league in pts and ppg since 2018-2019 season which shows both are elite/top end regular season players.

They are very similar producers in the reg season for their whole careers with Rantanen also killing It in the playoffs.

If you have two similar producing wingers, you would take the less physically challanged winger who has a repeated/sustained history of being extremely productive in the playoffs.

1.) Top 10 lists by fans have nothing to do with contract values. He thinks Marner was working 1.75 more than rantanen because Marner scored more assists 5v5.

2.) goals are worth more than assists. They are valued more in contracts. The term “playmaker” doesn’t mean anything.
Howe and Gretzky are 2 of the top 3 goal scorers of all time.

No one is saying assists don’t matter. They do. They don’t mean as much as goals one to one. If they did, the game would be determined by assists.

Clearly a 2800 pt player is worth more than a 1300 pt player. Even if ovy has more goals, he’s not Gretzky.

In the cases of 2 100 pt players.

A 70 goal 100 pt player is worth more than a 30 goal 100 pt player.

Rantanen and Marner had similar paces. Rantanen scored more goals.

Marner was not worth 1.75 more. It’s simple.
 
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The only people who think Marner is worth more than Rantanen are Marner and his golfing buddies.

He's not worth more than Rantanen. It's evident to everyone who the better more successful player is. I suspect even the Marnerites know this but don't want to admit it.

To deny the obvious is playing make belief.

I didn't watch enough Polka Dot Door as a kid I guess. Because I'm clearly lacking the imagination necessary to put Marner ahead of Rantanen. There's truths in this world that are self- evident despite all the tin foil hat conspiracies.

No matter how hard I try to see a flat earth it still appears round.

Marner made bucket loads of claims about how he wanted to remain a Leafs player for life. It was supposedly reported he didn't want to be the highest paid player on the team. Some of the more gullible on here lapped it up like fresh milk.

Now we get to see if his actions can cash the cheques his mouth was writing.
 
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I highly doubt it is even close to "every". It's also dependant on how much. If someone asked me if I enjoy playing video games. I would say yes. However, I haven't played a video game in over a year.
are there any videos around of someone like kelly hrudy or paul biznasty saying that only selfish nerds play video games
 

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