Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[Craig Button]

Take away his privileges and he hovers around a point a game on a season and maybe less. He doesn't actually do much other than play the role of a vending machine. An Oh Henry! For you, Mr.Big for you and the rest is all skittles.

are you serious?

 

[Hellcat]

Always with the fantasies

Just let them fight those fantasy demons in their head that they magically create.

 

[Antropovsky]

He didn't peak in 2021, I referenced this a couple pages ago. Our team's goals for was around 315 in 2021, this year we're on pace to score 267 goals. Marner is in on 38% of all of Leafs goals this year which will be his highest ever points percentage. in 2021 he was in on 36% of our teams goals. We're scoring less goals as a team but Marner's point totals don't change, it's a sign that he's more important than ever right now.

@Francis .... you liked this post? And all the poster said was Marners percentage of being in on a teams goal is high as proof that Marner hasn't regressed? Lol explain please how quality competition and quality of linemates doesn't matter with this stat?

Lol dismissing my detailed analysis with multiple data points as “cherry-picked” or “misleading,” yet your turning around and like a post that uses one stat as its entire argument....just pure bias. If you’re going to call out selective data, at least be consistent—otherwise, it’s obvious you’re just ignoring anything that doesn’t fit your narrative.

Many people have presented rebuttles. You just refuse to accept them. Yes you post stats, but you do not use context to provide the full picture. You make a claim, and provide limited stats that support your narrative surrounding the claim. You eliminate data that provides whole picture context. Which ultimately negates the integrity of your argument. That’s the issue and why many people take issue with your posts..

Like I said, you’re smart but you also know what you’re doing, which is why you’re not denying it either. Anyone can post numbers and say the data says this and present misleading narratives, but if you eliminate other data sets for no other reason than preference or fail to provide context behind the numbers you’ve posted how can anyone take your claims seriously?

 

[Antropovsky]

Personally the fact that Marner averages as many individual high danger scoring chances as Lorentz and less than Dewar and Holmberg would have me very concerned if I was a GM paying him 13+% going into playoff hockey.

 

[thewave]

Personally the fact that Marner averages as many individual high danger scoring chances as Lorentz and less than Dewar and Holmberg would have me very concerned if I was a GM paying him 13+% going into playoff hockey.

View attachment 1004195

No mystery why we can't pull a playoff victory with Mitch hiding up high from his shadow playing dispensing the puck for easy points.

 

[notbias]

Personally the fact that Marner averages as many individual high danger scoring chances as Lorentz and less than Dewar and Holmberg would have me very concerned if I was a GM paying him 13+% going into playoff hockey.

View attachment 1004195

WAIT! This changes everything... a pass first player is not top of the team in high danger chances!??!?!?!?!!?!??!

 

[Craig Button]

No mystery why we can't pull a playoff victory with Mitch hiding up high from his shadow playing dispensing the puck for easy points.

You are a prime example of Marner being a Rorschach Test

 

[thewave]

You are a prime example of Marner being a Rorschach Test

I have consistently not liked his game from before the draft. I never thought his game would translate into success and I was right. He can flip pucks out of the rink all he wants but he hasn't had a good game 5 6 7 that elevated us since getting here. I hear more dumbass excuses out of his own mouth in the media than actual accountability and success from his person.

Waaaaaagh I am as good as Matthews and I waaaaaagh I didnt get bonuses from Lou and Waaaaaagh Babsocks made my little ego go to shambles.

Look deep inside, you know it be true. Join me, liberate your mind from the Marner cult.

Too soft. Terrible leader gloves chucker. It's no surprise we don't win in the playoffs.

 

[Confucius]

Always with the fantasies

Did I get a number incorrect? His best season is not even 75% as good as the best season of the players I mentioned. 75% of their pay sounds about right.

 

[Antropovsky]

The only 5v5 stat this season that Marner blows domi out of the water in is secondary assists.

Goals/60, primary assists/60 this season
Marner - 0.68 g/60, 0.96 first assists p/60
Domi - 0.59 g/60, 0.81 first assists p/60

Over 1400 mins:
Marner:
16 goals
22 primary assists

Domi:
14 goals
19 primary assists

Yes very humiliating/rough year for "Domi"

For the posters who keep hating on Domi, but adore Marner.

I also just noticed that Domi also has more points per 60 over the past three postseasons than Mitch Marner does.

 

[Confucius]

He isn’t overpaid

At the moment he isn’t, if he gets a raise he’s overpaid

 

[Smif]

For the posters who keep hating on Domi, but adore Marner.

I also just noticed that Domi also has more points per 60 over the past three postseasons than Mitch Marner does.

View attachment 1004282

Domi > Matthews > Stone > MacKinnon > Marner > Rantanen.

I guess Domi is the best value contract in the NHL then. There's zero chance your p/60 stats aren't the be all end all that you think they are.

 

[notbias]

For the posters who keep hating on Domi, but adore Marner.

I also just noticed that Domi also has more points per 60 over the past three postseasons than Mitch Marner does.

View attachment 1004282

Stopped using primary points... why?

 

[francis246]

For the posters who keep hating on Domi, but adore Marner.

I also just noticed that Domi also has more points per 60 over the past three postseasons than Mitch Marner does.

View attachment 1004282

lol who cares,

if Domi's efficiency in a small role isn't leading to a ton of raw points/production that helps us win games, his playoff p/60 is irrelavant.

p/60 doesn't do shit for us, raw point production in the playoffs is actually what leads to wins.

 

[Smif]

@Francis .... you liked this post? And all the poster said was Marners percentage of being in on a teams goal is high as proof that Marner hasn't regressed? Lol explain please how quality competition and quality of linemates doesn't matter with this stat?

Lol dismissing my detailed analysis with multiple data points as “cherry-picked” or “misleading,” yet your turning around and like a post that uses one stat as its entire argument....just pure bias. If you’re going to call out selective data, at least be consistent—otherwise, it’s obvious you’re just ignoring anything that doesn’t fit your narrative.

How you throw out offensive regression but don't mention team offense being down is the furthest thing from "detailed analysis with multiple data points".

Once again, you've proven to only list biased data points to prove a point, you're sloppy and careless. Your hero Tulsky, would be ashamed of your analysis.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Matthews regular season (605 games) sh% 15.9%
Matthews playoffs (55 games) sh% : 9.8%
Matthews last 3 games of playoffs in last 4 seasons (12 games) sh% 4.25%

And he takes Matty with him.

You already tried that line and lost the discussion.

 

[slozo]

Personally the fact that Marner averages as many individual high danger scoring chances as Lorentz and less than Dewar and Holmberg would have me very concerned if I was a GM paying him 13+% going into playoff hockey.

View attachment 1004195

Did it occur to you that Marner was the one helping to create those high danger scoring chances for Matty and Knies? He's by far the primary assist guy / creating time and space guy on a line with (2) 30+ goal scorers this year (one of who can score 50-69 btw) . . . so tell me, what relevance does Marner's high danger scoring chances have to do with his line?

Anyone? Anyone?

Nothing.
The answer is . . . nothing.

 

[thewave]

Did it occur to you that Marner was the one helping to create those high danger scoring chances for Matty and Knies? He's by far the primary assist guy / creating time and space guy on a line with (2) 30+ goal scorers this year (one of who can score 50-69 btw) . . . so tell me, what relevance does Marner's high danger scoring chances have to do with his line?

Anyone? Anyone?

Nothing.
The answer is . . . nothing.

When Marner is hiding up high, how is he helping them work to get position for a high danger chance? Marner does no heavy lifting at all. He is not any better a playmaker than Nylander. He just does crap JRs get in shit for doing with a higher success rate.

TBH he is a soft as butter perimeter player cashing in on other people's hard work. He isn't a player you win with because he can't play with winning intensity.

If he had any other name, people would be saying to get rid of him after the MTL series. He is the best in the business at narrative building and brand building. That's his talent.

 

[Leaf Fans]

When Marner is hiding up high, how is he helping them work to get position for a high danger chance? Marner does no heavy lifting at all. He is not any better a playmaker than Nylander. He just does crap JRs get in shit for doing with a higher success rate.

TBH he is a soft as butter perimeter player cashing in on other people's hard work. He isn't a player you win with because he can't play with winning intensity.

If he had any other name, people would be saying to get rid of him after the MTL series. He is the best in the business at narrative building and brand building. That's his talent.

Not if he were hiding, but he is excellent from the point on in in the offensive zone.

 

[Nineteen67]

Of course which is why the guys who score, need to get into spots to score, so the guy who set them up can set them up.

That’s been the issue every year. Knies may might help with that but if they’re checked he’ll have to find a way to play differently. To date he hasn’t been able to that and although we can hope he’s better, I don’t expect him to be.

 

[ACC1224]

Not if he were hiding, but he is excellent from the point on in in the offensive zone.

When people bring up this blueline stuff as some sort of criticism it's like they've never watched a game before.

 

[leafs in five]

imo Marner should get credit for the Matthews SH goal in LA because he was standing in front of the crease

 

[666]

Are you incapable of doing your own research? Check Natural Stat Trick put in some effort and contribute valuable information to the discussion instead of repeating childish takes like, "OMG, they admitted they didn’t watch every second of every game, so they have zero integrity and are liars!"

I’d love for those who disagree with me to provide actual research as rebuttals rather than resorting to immature arguments that no one has time for.

The facts are simple: I’ve backed up my position with evidence-based research, and no one has proven it wrong. Accusing me of cherry picking without specifying what data is misleading is just lazy.

Apparently, 300 minutes of data is too little, but 2,000 minutes is too much, make it make sense.

Show me the research that you have that specifies how much data is just rigght.

Aren't you getting tired of humiliating yourself?

Why are you ignoring post #4,925 and the many many other rebuttals to your nonsense.

The big mistake that you're making is that by misusing stats (bad samples sizes, missing context, etc) to make Marner look bad you also drag down other top players giving you cognitive dissonance so you just ignore those and hope we don't notice. You've been told many many times to include Nylander in your stats as he is Marners closest comparable.

If you were to post stats properly then people wouldn't have to do research to rebut you. The stats would tell the complete story within their context or else they would show the holes in your argument. How can you not see this simple fundamental truth?

How can you possibly think that Domi is better than Nylander and JT? If you watched the games you would realize when the numbers don't match what you see and then you wouldn't constantly embarrass yourself. That's one really big reason for you to watch the games.

Your Domi obsession has shown your lack of integrity, your complete lack of credibility and now you're the laughing stock of the community. No one. And I repeat no one thinks that Domi is even close to Marner (or Nylander). You should be ashamed.

As for small sample sizes, I've told you many times, plot out the stats over time and see how long it takes them to settle. It literally takes 2 minutes per stat type. Instead of wasting your time with your nonsense put the time into learning how to do things properly.

 

[Craig Button]

I have consistently not liked his game from before the draft. I never thought his game would translate into success and I was right. He can flip pucks out of the rink all he wants but he hasn't had a good game 5 6 7 that elevated us since getting here. I hear more dumbass excuses out of his own mouth in the media than actual accountability and success from his person.

Waaaaaagh I am as good as Matthews and I waaaaaagh I didnt get bonuses from Lou and Waaaaaagh Babsocks made my little ego go to shambles.

Look deep inside, you know it be true. Join me, liberate your mind from the Marner cult.

Too soft. Terrible leader gloves chucker. It's no surprise we don't win in the playoffs.

Again
A perfect prime example of Marner being a Rorschach Test

 

[Antropovsky]

Aren't you getting tired of humiliating yourself?

Why are you ignoring post #4,925 and the many many other rebuttals to your nonsense.

The big mistake that you're making is that by misusing stats (bad samples sizes, missing context, etc) to make Marner look bad you also drag down other top players giving you cognitive dissonance so you just ignore those and hope we don't notice. You've been told many many times to include Nylander in your stats as he is Marners closest comparable.

If you were to post stats properly then people wouldn't have to do research to rebut you. The stats would tell the complete story within their context or else they would show the holes in your argument. How can you not see this simple fundamental truth?

How can you possibly think that Domi is better than Nylander and JT? If you watched the games you would realize when the numbers don't match what you see and then you wouldn't constantly embarrass yourself. That's one really big reason for you to watch the games.

Your Domi obsession has shown your lack of integrity, your complete lack of credibility and now you're the laughing stock of the community. No one. And I repeat no one thinks that Domi is even close to Marner (or Nylander). You should be ashamed.

As for small sample sizes, I've told you many times, plot out the stats over time and see how long it takes them to settle. It literally takes 2 minutes per stat type. Instead of wasting your time with your nonsense put the time into learning how to do things properly.

You have this weird agenda that you try to change everything what people say. I've never said Domi is better than Nylander and Tavares.

Don't you have something better to do?

At least other Marner fans have made attempts to prove their points with advanced stats and it's interesting for readers.

Reading someone say "you don't even watch all the games", or intentional change qhat others say is just a total waste of people's time and destroys the quality of this board.