Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[keonsbitterness]

That’s fine but then he voluntarily took the job knowing the limitations it came with, he either agrees with those limitations or he’s a replaceable yes man of minimal consequence.

Only 32 of those jobs. Most don't have the clout to pick and choose.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah, circumstances around Nylander changed. The complaint by that other poster was about when Tre was hired and no one had a NMC or NTC.

Yes, he could have moved them then as well.

 

[ACC1224]

Honestly, I don't think Scotty Bowman or even the late Quinn would had trade any of our Core 5 within one month of the job as Leafs GM.

The fact that Leafs seems like the only team that can't get their players to waive their NTC or NMC is a concern. Not sure is it the GMs or TO culture.

Players love to play here. Who have they asked to waive and refused since the Sundin debacle? Kadri I guess.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Yes, he could have moved them then as well.

Pre-July 1? In theory, yes, in practice, no as per Shanahan.

 

[ACC1224]

Why is Willie being mentioned with Rantanen and MM?

Canes prefers MM over Willie while Tre prefers Rantanen over MM, Tre also prefers Willie over MM.
Or else Canes would had asked for Willie for Rantanen or Tre countered Canes proposal with Willie instead of MM.

That's what happened according to the info made public.

No need to break it down a million times and build narratives.

Maybe Canes only asked for MM in order to raise the price from the Stars, or Canes did wanted MM and thought he is a better fit than Rantanen. Nomatter what the case may be, Tre could had said NO or countered right away but he didn't. He literally asked MM would he waive and go to the Canes. That should put it to rest as to what Tre thinks of MM, Willie and Rantanen.

What is any of that based on? The lengths some of you go is crazy.

 

[ACC1224]

Pre-July 1? In theory, yes, in practice, no as per Shanahan.

He wouldn't have taken the job if he wasn't allowed to make the changes he'd want.
He didn't move anyone because he didn't want to move anyone.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Honestly, I don't think Scotty Bowman or even the late Quinn would had trade any of our Core 5 within one month of the job as Leafs GM.

The fact that Leafs seems like the only team that can't get their players to waive their NTC or NMC is a concern. Not sure is it the GMs or TO culture.

Tkachuk got moved 2 days after he told Tre he wouldn’t sign long term and that was with the limitation of a small handful of teams he’d extend with. I’m sure there was some ground work done ahead of time but I don’t understand why anyone is acting like a month in the offseason is an impossible amount of time to get a trade done. It was the obvious top priority and the only place you could really change the makeup and culture of the team, there was just no desire from upper management to do it.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Only 32 of those jobs. Most don't have the clout to pick and choose.

That’s my problem here, you would hope that the richest team in the league would have a better selection of options than guys who are desperate enough for a job that they’re willing to be micromanaged by someone they disagree with on fundamental top priority core issues.

Or alternatively Tre genuinely agrees with running it back to infinity.

 

[666]

Why is Willie being mentioned with Rantanen and MM?

Canes prefers MM over Willie while Tre prefers Rantanen over MM, Tre also prefers Willie over MM.
Or else Canes would had asked for Willie for Rantanen or Tre countered Canes proposal with Willie instead of MM.

That's what happened according to the info made public.

No need to break it down a million times and build narratives.

Maybe Canes only asked for MM in order to raise the price from the Stars, or Canes did wanted MM and thought he is a better fit than Rantanen. Nomatter what the case may be, Tre could had said NO or countered right away but he didn't. He literally asked MM would he waive and go to the Canes. That should put it to rest as to what Tre thinks of MM, Willie and Rantanen.

Yikes. Nylander has a contract for the next 7+ years. He is worth more than MM and Rantenan combined as long as they aren't signed because they can walk. Think man.

 

[kevsh]

He wouldn't have taken the job if he wasn't allowed to make the changes he'd want.

That's pure speculation though.

I'd further speculate that there are plenty of GMs - in all sports - who can't make the changes they'd want. Such is life when (certain) owners want to make personnel decisions instead of leaving it to the people they hire specifically to make personnel decisions.

 

[keonsbitterness]

He wouldn't have taken the job if he wasn't allowed to make the changes he'd want.
He didn't move anyone because he didn't want to move anyone.

That's clearly not true.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Tkachuk got moved 2 days after he told Tre he wouldn’t sign long term and that was with the limitation of a small handful of teams he’d extend with. I’m sure there was some ground work done ahead of time but I don’t understand why anyone is acting like a month in the offseason is an impossible amount of time to get a trade done. It was the obvious top priority and the only place you could really change the makeup and culture of the team, there was just no desire from upper management to do it.

Wasn't getting Matthews signed the top priority? Didn't Treliving say that right after he signed? Does Matthews sign an extension if Marner got traded then? Not that I believe he had the power to do so.

 

[Gabriel426]

Players love to play here. Who have they asked to waive and refused since the Sundin debacle? Kadri I guess.

MM like a week or two ago.

Also how many players got NTC or NMC from the Leafs in the last 10 years.

 

[Gabriel426]

What is any of that based on? The lengths some of you go is crazy.

Common sense.

Canes traded Rantanen b/c they can't come to terms with new contract. Won't it makes sense to ask for Willie instead of MM, since Willie's contract is 7 more years?
Did Tre even offered Willie as a counter to Canes, don't think he did.

Fact is Canes asked for MM, and Tre said yes, showed he is willing to trade MM for Ranta.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yikes. Nylander has a contract for the next 7+ years. He is worth more than MM and Rantenan combined as long as they aren't signed because they can walk. Think man.

1. Any teams trading for Rantanen would had a deal in place or else they won't be trading for him. Only Canes is dumb enough to pull the trigger without a deal in place.
2. Same with asking for MM in a trade at the TDL.

 

[francis246]

I guess people don’t realize that players like Nylander and Rantanen can both score and facilitate. They can create their own offence. Marner does not have seem to have the ability to create his own offence, hence the need to pass more often. He simply does not have the speed or strength of a Nylander or Rantanen.

Marner can create his own offense but it also comes with sometimes very high risk plays that costs the team.

Are you blaming Treliving for not trading Marner before his NTC kicked in? I think Treliving was hired about a week prior to the NTC kicking in, and Shanahan basically just let go of Dubas for suggesting it was time to make changes. Treliving had neither the time or blessing to trade Marner. Why did Marner get 2 years protection when Matthews and Nylander only had their final years protected iirc.

Marner didn’t get 2 years of UFA NMC protection because he’s Marner. It has to do with when players reach. UFA/Age and status. So you can’t really use that as he used it as a negotiation ploy and the others didn’t.

The CBA states you cannot as an RFA have an NMC until you reach UFA status or turn 27 years of age I believe. Why Matthews and Nylander got 1 year vs Marner who got 2 is Nylander signed his deal earlier than Marner meaning he reached UFA status a year before Marner, Matthews signed a short term deal so his deal expired one year before and he reached UFA status before Marner. That’s the only reason for the discrepancy. It’s not because Dubas or anyone in the organization caved to Marner, simply just luck of the draw and CBA language that made that happen.

 

[Gabriel426]

Marner can create his own offense but it also comes with sometimes very high risk plays that costs the team.



Marner didn’t get 2 years of UFA NMC protection because he’s Marner. It has to do with when players reach. UFA/Age and status. So you can’t really use that as he used it as a negotiation ploy and the others didn’t.

The CBA states you cannot as an RFA have an NMC until you reach UFA status or turn 27 years of age I believe. Why Matthews and Nylander got 1 year vs Marner who got 2 is Nylander signed his deal earlier than Marner meaning he reached UFA status a year before Marner, Matthews signed a short term deal so his deal expired one year before and he reached UFA status before Marner. That’s the only reason for the discrepancy. It’s not because Dubas or anyone in the organization caved to Marner, simply just luck of the draw and CBA language that made that happen.

Well Dubas can say NO.
So to say that the organization didn't caved to MM is not exactly correct.

Funny how when talk about the cap and money, you are on the side of Owners not doing enough as they can always change the CBA and salary cap...but when it comes to MM, you will point out he did thing according to the rules...instead of thinking about the other side too.

 

[francis246]

Well Dubas can say NO.
So to say that the organization didn't caved to MM is not exactly correct.

Funny how when talk about the cap and money, you are on the side of Owners not doing enough as they can always change the CBA and salary cap...but when it comes to MM, you will point out he did thing according to the rules...instead of thinking about the other side too.

When it comes to money, I will never be pro owner. That’s a fact, fck owners.

I’m not sure how you are taking away that I said Marner did something. He’s asking why Marner got 1 year of extra trade protection. I simply provided an answer. It’s not because they caved to Marner, it’s just the way the deals line up and the language around the CBA and the players ages.

No idea what your ranting about, but it’s got nothing to do with my response.

 

[LeafSteel]

Is anyone concerned that Ferris will look at the number Vladdy asks for from the Blue Jays and asks the same???

I’m kidding of course. The Marner stuff will get sorted. We can chuckle in the interim.

Cheers.

 

[Gabriel426]

When it comes to money, I will never be pro owner. That’s a fact, fck owners.

I’m not sure how you are taking away that I said Marner did something. He’s asking why Marner got 1 year of extra trade protection. I simply provided an answer. It’s not because they caved to Marner, it’s just the way the deals line up and the language around the CBA and the players ages.

No idea what your ranting about, but it’s got nothing to do with my response.

Like I said, MM or any players can ask for anything, but the team doesn't need to say yes.

 

[francis246]

Like I said, MM or any players can ask for anything, but the team doesn't need to say yes.

When are we gonna stop pretending like the NMC’s handcuffed the team? They had 4 frigging years to move him without any protection. The organization let the NMC kick in (which they gave him in exchange for buying 2 UFA years).

The organization gets ZERO sympathy from me when it comes to the NMC situation. They did that to themselves. To retroactively now blame the player is a fools race. According to Jonas Siegel, Marner had prepared and accepted that the 2023 playoffs would be his last as a leaf. Just like no one pointed a gun at their head to agree to the NMC, no one pointed a gun at their head to let it kick in.

 

[Gabriel426]

When are we gonna stop pretending like the NMC’s handcuffed the team? They had 4 frigging years to move him without any protection. The organization let the NMC kick in (which they gave him in exchange for buying 2 UFA years).

The organization gets ZERO sympathy from me when it comes to the NMC situation. They did that to themselves. To retroactively now blame the player is a fools race. According to Jonas Siegel, Marner had prepared and accepted that the 2023 playoffs would be his last as a leaf. Just like no one pointed a gun at their head to agree to the NMC, no one pointed a gun at their head to let it kick in.

I am not blaming the players bc the team can say NO.

If they are dumb enough to say Yes and caved to every demands of the players, they deserve what’s coming at them.

At the same time, players are not innocent here. Bc if they produce when it matters, it doesn’t matter if they have NTC/NMC or make the max contract. It is put up or shut up.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He wouldn't have taken the job if he wasn't allowed to make the changes he'd want.
He didn't move anyone because he didn't want to move anyone.

What is any of that based on? The lengths some of you go is crazy.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Wasn't getting Matthews signed the top priority? Didn't Treliving say that right after he signed? Does Matthews sign an extension if Marner got traded then? Not that I believe he had the power to do so.

That summer he said the priority was signng Matthews and Nylander, and he did.

The following summer he did not, a least publicly, say the same about either Marner or Tavares, and he hasn't.

 

[arso40]

That summer he said the priority was signng Matthews and Nylander, and he did.

The following summer he did not, a least publicly, say the same about either Marner or Tavares, and he hasn't.

Why mention it they’re only gonna ignore it