Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[Gary Nylund]

Again as usual you ignore everything and blather on emotionally. That's why we don't have these talks anymore.
But there is one thing we haven't discussed. The 4 nations.

Imagine if Bennett's shot gets saved and we don't even go to OT or McDavid's shots gets saved and we lose on the next play. Marner ends the tournament with one or two points and the haters go crazy. You would have been the first to whine about points. Admit it. You won't. But because the goalie didn't stop two shots over two seconds, which has nothing to do with Marner, your opinion of Marner at least for that tournament was positive. Think about it. Marner plays the exact same but your opinion can be changed by two seconds of play by OTHER players. Two seconds. It's absurd. This is why anyone whining about points doesn't understand the game.

Adjusting for the incredible pace of the best against best and to a lesser extent the playoffs, Marner pretty well always plays like this (except the occasional game and the Florida series). The same incredible setups, the same incredible defence and the same amazing play away from the puck but for some reason Matthews' shooting percentages drops from 16% to 10% to 4% in critical games, just like it would have been in the 4 nations if it weren't for 2 seconds of play by other players.

You have two choices now. You can join the group of fools who blame Marner for Matthews' playoff failures or you can realize how dumb it is to use points as the ONLY measure of value. I suspect that you will just ignore all of this and hide in your shell.

You're the one who's ignoring facts and blathering on emotionally calling him "incredible this, incredible that, amazing play" and talking about Nylander, Rantanen, Matthews and whoever else to deflect but this thread is about Marner. Blaming Matthews for his failures, you really think anyone's going to fall for that? The fact is that Marner had a chance to show what he could do in the playoffs without Matthews last spring and he fell flat on his face. 3 points in 7 games is a simple fact, that's two series on a row now where he's been ineffective from the start. You can't handle the truth, but that's a fact.

You're living in a fantasy land.

 

[IPS]

In that series Rantanen was a minus player without Mack on his line. Points aren't so important when you get scored on more than you score.

So are we gonna run the tape back on all those goals and see how many were Rantane's fault? There's 5 other guys on the ice.

Literally all of the people who get paid to know hockey for a living would agree Rantanen is a vastly superior playoff player to Marner or Nylander. You'd get laughed out of the room for suggesting otherwise.

 

[666]

So are we gonna run the tape back on all those goals and see how many were Rantane's fault? There's 5 other guys on the ice.

Literally all of the people who get paid to know hockey for a living would agree Rantanen is a vastly superior playoff player to Marner or Nylander. You'd get laughed out of the room for suggesting otherwise.

Rantanen is amazing with Mack. Everyone is. Ask yourself what would happen if Mack suddenly sucked. Would Rantanen still look so great? If Matthews sh% went from 16% to 4% do you think that would affect Marners (points)? There ARE 5 guys on the ice and when a Rocket winning star drops to 4% it's going to affect his linemates.

 

[666]

You're the one who's ignoring facts and blathering on emotionally calling him "incredible this, incredible that, amazing play" and talking about Nylander, Rantanen, Matthews and whoever else to deflect but this thread is about Marner. Blaming Matthews for his failures, you really think anyone's going to fall for that? The fact is that Marner had a chance to show what he could do in the playoffs without Matthews last spring and he fell flat on his face. 3 points in 7 games is a simple fact, that's two series on a row now where he's been ineffective from the start. You can't handle the truth, but that's a fact.

You're living in a fantasy land.

I suspect that you will just ignore all of this and hide in your shell.

Told you.

 

[arso40]

Lol. When someone says "without PLAYERX". It means without that player on their line. Rantanen is only a good player when Mack IS ON HIS LINE otherwise he is a negative player. Man, you are hilarious.

No your hilarious my friend cause that’s bullshit tbh your takes have been noticeable for the last couple days and all for the wrong reasons

 

[Gary Nylund]

Told you.

Even though your post made no sense, I responded anyway. If to you that's "ignoring" then you don't understand what the word "ignore" means.

Regular season Marner produces at a ~100 point pace.
Playoff Marner produces at a ~70 point pace.
Post game 86 Marner produces at a ~40 point pace.

If you can't handle truth that's your problem, but those are documented facts.

Marner's having a great regular season, like always. He has yet another chance to prove he can keep it up in the playoffs soon enough, but until he does, the facts are what they are.

 

[666]

Even though your post made no sense, I responded anyway. If to you that's "ignoring" then you don't understand what the word "ignore" means.

Regular season Marner produces at a ~100 point pace.
Playoff Marner produces at a ~70 point pace.
Post game 86 Marner produces at a ~40 point pace.

If you can't handle truth that's your problem, but those are documented facts.

Marner's having a great regular season, like always. He has yet another chance to prove he can keep it up in the playoffs soon enough, but until he does, the facts are what they are.

You have two choices now. You can join the group of fools who blame Marner for Matthews' playoff failures or you can realize how dumb it is to use points as the ONLY measure of value. I suspect that you will just ignore all of this and hide in your shell.

?

 

[666]

No your hilarious my friend cause that’s bullshit tbh

Ok, instead of getting all emotional and ignoring my facts dispute them. Here they are again.

Rantanen without Mack is a minus player in the regular season AND the playoffs (last 3 years).
Nylander without Matthews is a minus player in the regular season AND the playoffs (last 3 years).
Marner without Matthews is a POSITIVE player in the regular season AND the playoffs(last 3 years).

No need to get all emotional just provide some reasonable logical counter argument, if you can.

 

[Gary Nylund]

?

I've never blamed Marner for Matthews' playoff failures, and I've never used points as the ONLY measure of value.

You're either being purposefully obtuse, or you have serious reading comprehension issues. Do try to do better.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This is not true. The NHL calendar year is from July 1-June 30.

The "NHL calendar year" is irrelevant. That's not what's being discussed. Signing in the 2024 offseason and signing in the 2025 offseason are very different things, that use different information, and carry different levels of risk.

And in your world. The minimum the cap would go up was 2.5. So comparing Drai to the 88.5 cap is wrong.

Not my world. The world. I just used the known cap. You don't even seem to know what the cap is. Hint: It's not 88.5m. 15.9% or 15.5%, it doesn't really matter. If you want to get into the messy world of assumptions, speculation, and imaginary caps, you do you.

He was put on the leafs top line forever. He was not put on the top line, because tht was Matthews line.

He was never put on the top line during his first two years with the Leafs, and he never got to play with the team's other best players. Playing with some players that, when they were in their primes, used to play complimentary roles higher in the lineup because the team sucked, does not count.

Why do the Leafs own Marner’s rights until July 1st if it’s the offseason and his contract is effectively over?

Because the NHL wants a standardized contract schedule and common free agency day, and there are still some players playing out their season until mid June.

 

[notDatsyuk]

No. Rantanens comparable is Nylander. Rantanen is a minus player without Mack and Nylander is a minus player without Matthews. Marner is the real deal as he gets it done even without Matthews.

You obviously quote the wrong post - your reply doesn't seem to relate to my post at all.

 

[666]

I've never blamed Marner for Matthews' playoff failures, and I've never used points as the ONLY measure of value.

You're either being purposefully obtuse, or you have serious reading comprehension issues. Do try to do better.

Even though your post made no sense, I responded anyway. If to you that's "ignoring" then you don't understand what the word "ignore" means.

Regular season Marner produces at a ~100 point pace.
Playoff Marner produces at a ~70 point pace.
Post game 86 Marner produces at a ~40 point pace.

I only see points.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I only see points.

When you're a forward with one of the biggest cap hits in the NHL, you're expected to produce offence. It's not the only thing that matters, but it's one of the most important things, if not the most important.

For 86 games, Marner produces at a rate where you could say that he justifies his cap hit. After that, in the most important games of the year he produces at the rate of a middle 6 forward. IIRC, Max Domi out produced him against Boston and that's just embarrassing.

You talk about people ignoring this and that, but you're the one who's ignoring the facts that are staring you right in the face. Like I said, if you can't handle the truth then that's your problem, but the facts are what they are.

You can go back to blaming Matthews now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You obviously quote the wrong post - your reply doesn't seem to relate to my post at all.

He's lost in his own fantasy world.

 

[francis246]

The Marner PR crew has an extremely warped view of sample sizes. They pick and choose when it matters.

And the anti Marner side doesn’t? Hilarious

 

[thewave]

And the anti Marner side doesn’t? Hilarious

Who is anti Marner? We all like Marner. Don't we? At the very least everyone liked him up until he refused to waive.

 

[francis246]

Who is anti Marner? We all like Marner. Don't we? At the very least everyone liked him up until he refused to waive.

Idk, I’m just making up bullshit labels for people. I thought that’s what we do around here? “Marner PR Crew” .

I have you listed as one of the core generals of the Anti Marner brigade!!

 

[thewave]

Idk, I’m just making up bullshit labels for people. I thought that’s what we do around here? “Marner PR Crew” .

I have you listed as one of the core generals of the Anti Marner brigade!!

I am a petty officer 1st class. Just following orders. See Gen @Antropovsky

 

[francis246]

I am a petty officer 1st class.

Oh no, no, no, do not sell yourself short my friend. You’ve climbed the highest of ranks.

 

[daveleaf]

I'll start with number 5, the answer to the other ones is below:

5)What we see matches the coaches and othet NHL players are doing and saying.
- Its the reason Berube and Treliving kept praising Marner for putting the work in this offseason (because he never did before).
- It's the reason Berube keeps saying that Marners line needs to stop being so cute (when Matthews was injured)
- it's the reason McDavid said "Marner plays high in the zone" at 4nations
- it's the reason 4nations gave him the least 5v5 mins in game 3 and the coaches said they moved the lines because they thought they were too perimeter
- It's the reason McD and Marner were in an argument in game 1 and Marner later said to the media they are discussing where they want eachother on the ice.
- Its the reason Keefe held a meeting with Jumbo Joe because he wanted to address the team not scoring "playoff" style goals.
- here we are years later with Berube saying the same thing about these Leafs
- it's the reason Keefe always alluded to Marner being emotionally fragile
- it's the reason Marchand laughed and said Marner doesnt trash talk, he only talks about his dog and video games.

The list goes on and on forever really.

The answer to the rest of them is that Marner makes 11 million and plays PK. So of course he plays the most. The Leafs depth goes from 11 million dollar players to 3.9 million and then worse.

I think he’s a player with unique skills and because of that needs certain players around him. Now from what I remember when Mathews went down for an extended period of time Mitch was having a career year. He was actually shooting the puck and the PP was actually playing well. As soon as Mathews came back the team was standing around again on the PP and looking for Mathews weak side for a one timer.
A player doesn’t have to excel at all facets of the game to make a difference. He will never be a banger, trash talker dirty player but that’s exactly what he needs around him. For all the negatives you posted about Mitch at four nations it was his overtime goal in game 1 that was the goal that sent them to the finals. In OT in the finals it was him digging the puck off the boards below the goal line to feed McDavid, who lost, shall we say, Mathews to score the winner.
Mitch creates too much from the wing, as much as most centres in the league. Come playoff time this team lacks a dog mentality to get lose pucks. Thats Knies job but not Marriner.

 

[666]

You obviously quote the wrong post - your reply doesn't seem to relate to my post at all.

I explained that Nylander is Rants equivalent. The obvious conclusion is that the Leafs were willing to trade for an unsigned Nylander equivalent or lose Marner for nothing. Now they just get nothing. Trading Rant for nothing is a good deal.

 

[hullsy47]

Who is anti Marner? We all like Marner. Don't we? At the very least everyone liked him up until he refused to waive.

We like marner but not at 14 million
Its simple
He didnt sign didnt waive people just want to know why he thinks he so much better than anyone

 

[daveleaf]

If Leafs moved off Matthews and kept marner.

Would marner make any of these players better?
Not better than Matthews, but better than they've been.

View attachment 993782
Keep in mind the return from Matthews:
Trading Matthews for futures, long term youts.

Marriner needs a nard nose centre to play with and Mathews is not it. All this talk about his defensive play and in my opinion he is weak in his own zone. He gives up position more often than not.

Marriner stirs the pot. Imagine him with a guy like Bennet or someone that can muck. AM is soft. Our captain is soft.

 

[thewave]

We like marner but not at 14 million
Its simple
He didnt sign didnt waive people just want to know why he thinks he so much better than anyone

Pretty much how I see it. I can't imagine a Leaf fan that's complaining about MM and WN at 9-10m each and the balance of the money upgrading a couple 3m players into solid 5m players. You shave 2m here and 2m there and suddenly your D or Depth start looking more respectable

 

[francis246]

I am a petty officer 1st class. Just following orders. See Gen @Antropovsky

Lmfao one thing I really do appreciate about you is you have a good sense of humour, it’s just light hearted fun