Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[Legion34]

The funny thing is that exactly 0 people have suggested that Marner should get Draisaitl's 15.9%. Marner likely gets in the 14-15% range.

No because you are manipulating the numbers pretending Drai signed on an 88.5 cap

Drai gets 14 million starting in 2025-2026.
What do your think Marner should get

in actual dollars

 

[666]

Are you suggesting that "the elite goaltending" and "the bad coaching" and "the poor power play" only affected Matthews but not Nylander?

I guess you're admitting that Willy is a much better player than Matthews.

I watch the games and I can see that as the games get tougher Marner becomes much less a factor, which is reflected in Matthews' game.

You can't seriously believe that Marner is a major contributor to Matthews' success but is irrelevant when it is lacking.

Absolutely fascinating that the guy goes from 16% to 4% and not once did you lay ANY of the blame on Matthews himself.
You can't seriously believe that Matthews is a major contributor to Marner's success but is irrelevant when it is lacking. It's all Marner's fault is so bizarre.
I engaged with you again to see if you could critically think. That won't happen again.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honestly your guess is as good as mine. I can only speculate, but maybe he does still hold resentment for his treatment vs Matthews. Ultimately I think it’s an ego thing from Marner, just like it was with Rantanen. Unfortunately wingers will never be valued like franchise centermen and it seems like these two felt like they should have been. (I don’t agree with them)

I do however believe the Avs are lying about the flexibility though and Rantanen’s comments post trade in my opinion support that. He was willing to be flexible. My gut is that, there was a rift beyond repair and they’ve always been open to moving Rantanen for the best possible offer. Lucky for them, they just so happened to get a deal that gave them a good player while gaining some cap flexibility. So it’s a win from a narrative perspective. It would be PR suicide if they just came out and said, we wanted to move off the player and a sure fire way to piss off the fanbase.

Ego thing does sound likely, not gonna lie, I'm pretty sick of Marner. That said, if he kicks ass in the playoffs I'll be a fan of his again but that seems unlikely considering his history.

MacKinnon>Rantanen and Matthews>Marner. I think most would agree with that and as far as Ranta goes, not sure that's the issue as he took less than MacKinnon to sign with Dallas. So something else causing a rift seems plausible which is unfortunate for Colorado fans but whatever, I only care about the Leafs and pretty much everything that has happened with this team in the last 7 years could be classified as unfortunate.

We've been a playoffs laughing stock for years and we seem to in playoff form lately, what a shit show this team has become.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Absolutely fascinating that the guy goes from 16% to 4% and not once did you lay ANY of the blame on Matthews himself.
You can't seriously believe that Matthews is a major contributor to Marner's success but is irrelevant when it is lacking. It's all Marner's fault is so bizarre.
I engaged with you again to see if you could critically think. That won't happen again.

Neither of these bozos are gonna win think about that

 

[Bloomberg]

Ego thing does sound likely, not gonna lie, I'm pretty sick of Marner. That said, if he kicks ass in the playoffs I'll be a fan of his again but that seems unlikely considering his history.

MacKinnon>Rantanen and Matthews>Marner. I think most would agree with that and as far as Ranta goes, not sure that's the issue as he took less than MacKinnon to sign with Dallas. So something else causing a rift seems plausible which is unfortunate for Colorado fans but whatever, I only care about the Leafs and pretty much everything that has happened with this team in the last 7 years could be classified as unfortunate.

We've been a playoffs laughing stock for years and we seem to in playoff form lately, what a shit show this team has become.

Marner played well in the 4 nations when it matters. I would like to see him play without Matthews in the playoffs. They are both perimeter players that doesn't work well on the same line during a tight checking playoff game. Marner with Laughton or Marner with Tavares should be better.

 

[francis246]

Ego thing does sound likely, not gonna lie, I'm pretty sick of Marner. That said, if he kicks ass in the playoffs I'll be a fan of his again but that seems unlikely considering his history.

MacKinnon>Rantanen and Matthews>Marner. I think most would agree with that and as far as Ranta goes, not sure that's the issue as he took less than MacKinnon to sign with Dallas. So something else causing a rift seems plausible which is unfortunate for Colorado fans but whatever, I only care about the Leafs and pretty much everything that has happened with this team in the last 7 years could be classified as unfortunate.

We've been a playoffs laughing stock for years and we seem to in playoff form lately, what a shit show this team has become.

I'm open to believing as long as those two are not on the same line come the playoffs. I think Marner should be on the line with Laughton and McMann, that feels like a playoff third line IMO.

I'd go;

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Tavares - Nylander
McMann - Laughton - Marner
Lorentz - Kampf - Jarnkrok

seems like the most balanced forward group IMO

 

[ULF_55]

If Leafs moved off Matthews and kept marner.

Would marner make any of these players better?
Not better than Matthews, but better than they've been.

Keep in mind the return from Matthews:
Trading Matthews for futures, long term youts.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner played well in the 4 nations when it matters. I would like to see him play without Matthews in the playoffs. They are both perimeter players that doesn't work well on the same line during a tight checking playoff game. Marner with Laughton or Marner with Tavares should be better.

I've wanted M&M on separate lines since the season started.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm open to believing as long as those two are not on the same line come the playoffs. I think Marner should be on the line with Laughton and McMann, that feels like a playoff third line IMO.

I'd go;

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Tavares - Nylander
McMann - Laughton - Marner
Lorentz - Kampf - Jarnkrok

seems like the most balanced forward group IMO

I think JT and Marner are a good fit but JT and Nylander, not so much so I'd flip Laughton and Tavares.

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Laughton- Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Lorentz - Kampf - Jarnkrok

 

[Divine]

The funny thing is that exactly 0 people have suggested that Marner should get Draisaitl's 15.9%. Marner likely gets in the 14-15% range.

Marner are Draisaitl are signing under the same cap. They're both pending UFA's on July 1st 2025. The cap has not went up since Draisaitl signed his contract. The cap will go up on July 1, 2025 at which point Marner will be a UFA and only eligible for 7 years.

Using future cap to manipulate the numbers is misleading. Draisaitl could have used future cap to manipulate the numbers as well. They're both UFA's in the same year.

Also, in what world is Marner's cap percentage at 0.9-1.9% less than Draisaitl? I think every GM in the league would take Draisaitl at 1% more cap.

 

[666]

The answer to the rest of them is that Marner makes 11 million and plays PK. So of course he plays the most. The Leafs depth goes from 11 million dollar players to 3.9 million and then worse.

This has got to be dumbest answer ever. His salary? Nylander makes more yet during the playoffs he gets less ice time 5v5 and doesn't PK at all. Why doesn't $11.5M Nylander play against the top lines? Why do the coaches value Marner more than Nylander when Nylander makes more money? They both play the same position. I could go on and on but it's a waste of time to talk playoffs with you when you're the ONLY person who thinks Marner sucks even in the regular season.

 

[thewave]

This has got to be dumbest answer ever. His salary? Nylander makes more yet during the playoffs he gets less ice time 5v5 and doesn't PK at all. Why doesn't $11.5M Nylander play against the top lines? Why do the coaches value Marner more than Nylander when Nylander makes more money? They both play the same position. I could go on and on but it's a waste of time to talk playoffs with you when you're the ONLY person who thinks Marner sucks even in the regular season.

Nylander was playing against top lines with Matthews and then Marner cried that he should be playing with Matthews. That's how that happened.

Don't you remember?

Internationally at 4 Nations Nylander also played against top lines. Marner tried and then sort of had to be pulled back because it didn't go well. He got tucked back in a bit in the gold game mind you.

 

[francis246]

This has got to be dumbest answer ever. His salary? Nylander makes more yet during the playoffs he gets less ice time 5v5 and doesn't PK at all. Why doesn't $11.5M Nylander play against the top lines? Why do the coaches value Marner more than Nylander when Nylander makes more money? They both play the same position. I could go on and on but it's a waste of time to talk playoffs with you when you're the ONLY person who thinks Marner sucks even in the regular season.

Who are you replying to here?! I can’t see it

 

[francis246]

I think JT and Marner are a good fit but JT and Nylander, not so much so I'd flip Laughton and Tavares.

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Laughton- Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Lorentz - Kampf - Jarnkrok

That might work, too. Point being is they just need to be on different lines honestly. And if it doesn’t work maybe it’s time for a change.

 

[Antropovsky]

This has got to be dumbest answer ever. His salary? Nylander makes more yet during the playoffs he gets less ice time 5v5 and doesn't PK at all. Why doesn't $11.5M Nylander play against the top lines? Why do the coaches value Marner more than Nylander when Nylander makes more money? They both play the same position. I could go on and on but it's a waste of time to talk playoffs with you when you're the ONLY person who thinks Marner sucks even in the regular season.

"Nylander makes more yet during playoffs he gets gets less ice time?"

What playoff games did the Leafs play where Nylander had a higher cap hit than Marner?

 

[Antropovsky]

I think JT and Marner are a good fit but JT and Nylander, not so much so I'd flip Laughton and Tavares.

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Laughton- Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Lorentz - Kampf - Jarnkrok

JT and Marner have been horrendous together in the playoffs. Likely because speed is ramped up and both are slow as molasses. Additionally, Tavares is very good cycle type player while Marner is a one and done.

2019 playoffs:
Tavares and Marner - 94 mins, Gf/60 1.90 Ga/60 3.16
2020 playoffs
Tavares and Marner - 43 mins, Gf/60 0.00, Ga/60 4.12

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Marner played well in the 4 nations when it matters. I would like to see him play without Matthews in the playoffs. They are both perimeter players that doesn't work well on the same line during a tight checking playoff game. Marner with Laughton or Marner with Tavares should be better.

we saw marner without matthews in the playoffs last year....

he had a point off of a faceoff win and that's it.

Marner can't play in the playoffs because he isn't willing to go to area's where you find success. He is content playing backup defencemen and slinging pucks from the point.

 

[Stephen]

I personally believe Marner wouldn't use these tactics with another team. simple. It's kind of like how Rantanen eventually ended up taking around what he got in Dallas after making a stink in Colorado. Rantanen could have easily just walked himself to UFA and gotten paid whatever he wanted, but he was able to land on a winner and took what he could to be settled with a winner. Every player can be settled for the right place. Rantanen was willing to work Toronto, Dallas and I forget the last team. I also believe Marner probably has a list of teams he would have been willing to be more reasonable with.

I think your observation is very insightful in terms of how Marner and his camp would negotiate with another team.

If I were to characterize the way Marner has handled his business with the Toronto Maple Leafs, it's on a very emotional, relationship-y, or almost sibling rivalry frequency that just isn't really a business relationship at all.

He's treated like the middle child in a golden generation crop of homegrown superstars. He doesn't like it. He didn't get his rookie bonuses. Auston did. Early days, it's Mitch vs Willie. Contractually, he's going to make the Leafs pay through their noses for the way he was snubbed. He threatened to look at offer sheets, but was never going to leave.

It's never about hey I want X dollars for Y years and that'll make me happy, eager to prove it on the ice and just make life easier. It's gotta be pegged to some percentage, that percentage is emotional and tied to his validation as a player. It's never about just winning an Art Ross, winning a Stanley Cup and letting those achievements speak for themselves.

Mitch Earner.

 

[Gallagbi]

I think JT and Marner are a good fit but JT and Nylander, not so much so I'd flip Laughton and Tavares.

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Laughton- Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Lorentz - Kampf - Jarnkrok

Isn't this pretty close to the lines last game? Flipping Robertson for Jarn?

 

[Bloomberg]

we saw marner without matthews in the playoffs last year....

he had a point off of a faceoff win and that's it.

Marner can't play in the playoffs because he isn't willing to go to area's where you find success. He is content playing backup defencemen and slinging pucks from the point.

I think Marner had 3 points last playoff? I mainly just remember Nylander carrying the team and Leafs coming back from 3-1 down to get to a game 7 without Matthews.

But yeah, Marner is a perimeter player. Going to the areas like Bennett, Thachuk really isn't his game. Matthews is also a perimeter player, so they won't work well in a tight checking game. In a pond hockey game against bad teams though, that line is lots of fun.

 

[Mess]

I think your observation is very insightful in terms of how Marner and his camp would negotiate with another team.

If I were to characterize the way Marner has handled his business with the Toronto Maple Leafs, it's on a very emotional, relationship-y, or almost sibling rivalry frequency that just isn't really a business relationship at all.

He's treated like the middle child in a golden generation crop of homegrown superstars. He doesn't like it. He didn't get his rookie bonuses. Auston did. Early days, it's Mitch vs Willie. Contractually, he's going to make the Leafs pay through their noses for the way he was snubbed. He threatened to look at offer sheets, but was never going to leave.

It's never about hey I want X dollars for Y years and that'll make me happy, eager to prove it on the ice and just make life easier. It's gotta be pegged to some percentage, that percentage is emotional and tied to his validation as a player. It's never about just winning an Art Ross, winning a Stanley Cup and letting those achievements speak for themselves.

Mitch Earner.

Had you found a way to insert acting like a "Spoiled Brat" into your thesis, I would have given you an A+ for your efforts.

 

[Gary Nylund]

JT and Marner have been horrendous together in the playoffs. Likely because speed is ramped up and both are slow as molasses. Additionally, Tavares is very good cycle type player while Marner is a one and done.

2019 playoffs:
Tavares and Marner - 94 mins, Gf/60 1.90 Ga/60 3.16
2020 playoffs
Tavares and Marner - 43 mins, Gf/60 0.00, Ga/60 4.12

Too many variables for those stats convince me of anything and pretty much the whole team has been bad in the playoffs. JT and Marner might not be an ideal fit but stylistically seems better to me than JT with Nylander.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Isn't this pretty close to the lines last game? Flipping Robertson for Jarn?

I don't remember, but could be. I remember looking at the lines before the game and thinking they looked pretty good, but part of that was just finally seeing M&M on separate lines. Could be though, I vaguely remembering that I liked the entire forward setup.

 

[Mr_Fun]

I'm open to believing as long as those two are not on the same line come the playoffs. I think Marner should be on the line with Laughton and McMann, that feels like a playoff third line IMO.

I'd go;

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Tavares - Nylander
McMann - Laughton - Marner
Lorentz - Kampf - Jarnkrok

seems like the most balanced forward group IMO

Worth a try, as is the line @Gary Nylund proposed.

 

[daveleaf]

Wow. Are you even watching the games lately? Mitch Marner is the last thing we need and is absolutely the worst letter on the team. You want the glove chucker and puck flicker to lead this team?

Dave, come on man

I do watch the games. Take him out of the lineup and where would this team be? When Mathews was out he was the one driving this team. He’s every bit the player Keon was, maybe a bit more flamboyant but not much. Where do you find a guy today the plays PP, PK and gets close to a hundred points. When Mathews was out the team performed very well. No dog in Austin-nothing. In four nations without Mitch where would Canada be? Definitely not in the finals. Big game and he played great. Who lost there guy-again, in the slot for the game winning goal? Mathews. You guys make him out to be some untouchable. Time to find him a permanent home to some team in Southern California and get some dogs on this team.

On a side note. How come a huge chunk of my original post was removed?