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Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

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Smif said:
Marner has proven it this season that he produces no matter who his center is.
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That’s a bold face lie my friend go look at the facts they are researchable playing with holmberg and without matthews the sample size was horrible to the point chief reluctantly had to break up Tavares line to compensate marner and before you say that line was probably not good it actually was our best line those couple games but he wanted to get Mitch going
 
leafsfan5 said:
It's 100% the right move and should've been done. The only reason they likely didn't is because they think it means Marner would leave, so they lose Knies + Marner to sign Rantanen

If there was a good chance I could keep both Rantanen + Marner I'd flip Knies+++ for Mikko easily. Let Tavares walk and build around Rantanen/Marner/Matthews/Nylander

Knies is a great player but a player of Mikko's talent is someone you have to go for
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So you’re good with four forwards making over $50M ? Even with a rising salary cap that continues the issue of them being a two line team and being too easy to shutdown in the playoffs.
 
Hellcat said:
100%

I get fan frustration over 8 disappointing playoffs. I get the concept that there is only so much $$$ to go around. What I dont get is why one guy gets 90% of the vitriol from the haters, there are many people that share the blame. Mitch does not do the scouting that could have found a few cheap controllable players, that would have over performed to their contracts and helped this team in the playoffs. Mitch does not set the line up, it's the coach and analytics department that determine who plays where and for how long. Mitch does not control how much $$$ Dubas/Tre spends on talent, they manage/managed the cap. Mitch does not have the goalie pads on, he was not dog shit last year between the pipes. They see one and only one possible solution, get rid of Mitch, get more cap room, win the cup. It's juvenile and quite honesty myopic thinking that there is only one possible way to fix this team.

From Mitch's draft year forward, if you look at each draft year, there is only one person who has scored more points than Mitch and he walks on Oil. This guy alone is the problem? Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkie ....



As a % of the cap in the year he signed?
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Drai and Marner are the same year

Marner got the ire of the fan base because his team would send people out to always talk about how Mitch was hard done by, how he should be the captain, how he is a “center who plays on the wing” and that the day Matthews signed his agent went on a tirade.

Then he held out, his agent was talking about going to Swiss and signing offer sheets and demanding to be paid like the best goal scorer in the league as a “playmaking winger”.

He refuses to see the issues he caused and blames the fans. If he wanted to stay he could have said “I’m going to realise the issue last time and sign early” or realize he doesn’t want to stay and pick his spot.

Matthew Tkachuk was honest. Said he wanted to go. The team traded and everyone won (save the contract huby signed). JG was hated (now that changed due to his tragic passing) because he left. But this time Marner has beeen asked to sign. He won’t. He has been asked to leave abe he won’t.

He apparently won’t even talk to them. So how can you plan?

If he wanted to stay. The team offered him too little and took more money. Sure. He hasn’t even made any effort to talk. It’s nuts.

When has a player refused communication from July 1. Makes no sense. I get shutting down talks in the year. They didn’t even talk in the summer

What can he possibly learn this year that he didn’t in the last 8? You have lived your entire life here. In or out? How can you not know ?
 
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Legion34 said:
Exactly. You don’t care what people who spend all day talking to nhl players agents and people who actually signed contract and negotiated bonuses into the cba say. Because you pretend to have done a fake study. Which you think shows that NHL gms did what you think they should. Despite never ever mentioning it.

If you look at the actual signings in SJ Marleau signed for higher percent. You can sort by % at time of signing.

You can see 1 playmaker in the lists in the early era. Gomez.

no one knows what you did. You say you looked at primary assists and that was predictive of contracts. What you say you did and what the data say are not the same. You show the data. You haven’t.
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Well the question was asked on several radio shows, if we did trade Rantanen for Marner, would we be better, and nobody said we would. He doesn't PK, Marner has the clear edge defensively, that does matter. It's debatable for sure.

Smif said:
Marner has proven it this season that he produces no matter who his center is.
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JT scored 12 more 5 v 5 goals the year he played with Marner, than any other season. It's laughable if people can't admit he's a line driver at this point. What's the point discussing, if we can't even accept some realities.
 
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DarkKnight said:
Well the question was asked on several radio shows, if we did trade Rantanen for Marner, would we be better, and nobody said we would. He doesn't PK, Marner has the clear edge defensively, that does matter. It's debatable for sure.
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I agree it’s debatable in terms of value to a team. No question.

But the original premise was contract values and how Marner was worth 15% more because of his playmaking.

that person keeps arguing. That Marner was worth 11 vs 9.25 and should be paid more because NHL gms are aware of primary points and his study that shows NHl gms value primary assists equal to goals.

There are tons of factors. Taxes etc. but the premise was that dubas can do no wrong. And marners value was 10.9 and mikko was 9.25
 
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DarkKnight said:
Well the question was asked on several radio shows, if we did trade Rantanen for Marner, would we be better, and nobody said we would. He doesn't PK, Marner has the clear edge defensively, that does matter. It's debatable for sure.


JT scored 12 more 5 v 5 goals the year he played with Marner, than any other season. It's laughable if people can't admit he's a line driver at this point. What's the point discussing, if we can't even accept some realities.
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Hes definitely can drive a line he just needs a sniper on his line without scorers and heavy linemates it’s a bunch of nothing it’s been proven
 
Legion34 said:
I agree it’s debatable in terms of value to a team. No question.

But the original premise was contract values and how Marner was worth 15% more because of his playmaking.

that person keeps arguing. That Marner was worth 11 vs 9.25 and should be paid more because NHL gms are aware of primary points and his study that shows NHl gms value primary assists equal to goals.

There are tons of factors. Taxes etc. but the premise was that dubas can do no wrong. And marners value was 10.9 and mikko was 9.25
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Fair enough, I apologize didn’t read the whole thread, so much noise here.

arso40 said:
Hes definitely can drive a line he just needs a sniper on his line without scorers and heavy linemates it’s a bunch of nothing it’s been proven
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Can say the same about shooters, without some one who can pass. Bottomline, dude makes his line mates better. He’s a fantastic player.
 
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DarkKnight said:
Fair enough, I apologize didn’t read the whole thread, so much noise here.


Can say the same about shooters, without some one who can pass. Bottomline, dude makes his line mates better. He’s a fantastic player.
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He does make his line mates better but matthews and nylander dont need him to have success so while I agree he’s smart and maximizes his linemates our two shooters are self sufficient
 
Gary Nylund said:
Regular season might be debatable, but playoff Ranta blows away playoff Marner, not even close.
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Even if both signed the same deal, Ranta is clearly the better player than MM. imagine Ranta-AM and Knies as a line and cycling in the Dzone.

Now would the Leafs be a better team. Not sure as I think switching Ranta with MM is still 1st round exit until AM, JT and to lesser extent Willie and Reilly prove otherwise.

But one thing for sure, we won’t feel sad about MM leaving for nothing as Ranta is signs for 8 more years.
 
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Not buying the theory that Rantanen's deal sets a cap on what Marner can expect to get as a free agent. Marner will get a bump--likely a sizeable one--by being available to the highest bidder, especially with the rising cap. There will be teams bending over backwards to write him the biggest cheque if given the opportunity.

It is obviously what Marner is counting on by not negotiating now. My guess is $14 million per at least.
 
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arso40 said:
He does make his line mates better but matthews and nylander dont need him to have success so while I agree he’s smart and maximizes his linemates our two shooters are self sufficient
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And you could argue he doesn’t need them either, which is what your first sentence confirms. Are we really arguing that good players are good? I mean it’s a symbiotic relationship, so Marner is self sufficient, the same as the shooters. Seems an odd way to try and undermine what he brings.
 
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