Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Post Deadline Apocalypse: 3rd Time's a Charm? Stu, Stu, Stupider Management, May the Schwartz Be With You!

[McDNicks17]

What sucks is even our goaltenders in Bakersfield are sucking.

I'm still pissed that Bowman didn't go for one of Detroit's goaltenders with our 3m LTIR on the table.

I have a feeling our goaltending will result in a 1st round exit.

They only had $1M of the LTIR left.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Where did you see 24M/31.5M? Puckpedia shows they have 5.3M with Benn, Duchene, Granlund, Dadanov, Ceci needing to be re-sign. Ceci walks and Dumba gets traded so that helps a little but they’re tight on cap

Yeah I was wondering that too. They also increase their goaltending costs by $4.25M

So they have space, but with guys to bring back, it is getting tight, just like the Oilers. Though I think Bourque will be fine, unless someone REALLY believes in him, he hasn't done a ton to warrant a offer sheet imo.

They only had $1M of the LTIR left.

Alex Lyon makes $900K, Fits easily.

 

[Canovin]

Between Benn, Granlund, Ceci, Duchene, Dadonov, Smith...lots of guys coming off the books.

You must not be factoring Rantanen 12M and Johnston raise.

https://puckpedia.com/team/dallas-stars

Click on cap projections and where it says 2025-26. I’m on my phone right now and I can’t seem to log in on my computer to screenshot the numbers

 

[McDNicks17]

Alex Lyon makes $900K, Fits easily.

He's also somehow been worse than Skinner this year statistically.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

He's also somehow been worse than Skinner this year statistically.

Sure, why do a care? I don't need him to replace Skinner, I need him to be ANOTHER option. A replacement for Skinner is an offseason thing. The failure here by management is not bringing in any other options.

The Oilers are also way better than the Wings.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Sure, why do a care? I don't need him to replace Skinner, I need him to be ANOTHER option. A replacement for Skinner is an offseason thing. The failure here by management is not bringing in any other options.

The Oilers are also way better than the Wings.

(We are currently playing as bad as the Wings are).

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Between Benn, Granlund, Ceci, Duchene, Dadonov, Smith...lots of guys coming off the books.

Benn is a guy that I'd have interest in on a short term deal.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

(We are currently playing as bad as the Wings are).

They are a better team playing poorly with poor goaltending in all cases.

 

[McDNicks17]

Sure, why do a care? I don't need him to replace Skinner, I need him to be ANOTHER option. A replacement for Skinner is an offseason thing. The failure here by management is not bringing in any other options.

The Oilers are also way better than the Wings.

They have another option, but they keep going back to Skinner. What would another do?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

They have another option, but they keep going back to Skinner. What would another do?

So they don't right, you see how that's the same thing they had before the deadline right? You see how the problem that was there isn't addressed in any way right? They needed to get another goalie, a 3rd, a replacement for Pickard, something else. Status Quo wasn't good enough, so here we are hoping it will correct itself.

 

[McDNicks17]

So they don't right, you see how that's the same thing they had before the deadline right? You see how the problem that was there isn't addressed in any way right? They needed to get another goalie, a 3rd, a replacement for Pickard, something else. Status Quo wasn't good enough, so here we are hoping it will correct itself.

Wishing for a new goalie and for that new goalie to play over Skinner is wishing for a new management and coaching staff.

It wasn’t going to happen.

 

[FlameChampion]

Interesting

I think the problem is more that guys just don’t go to the net enough.

Like the last game, Nurse took a shot and Podkolzin was screening the goalie. Taking shots from the point worked there.

How many deflected goals does this team score? How many screened goals? We don’t play around the net enough. Its probably why Perry has more goals than the majority of the team. Sad times.

 

[Slats432]

Benn is a guy that I'd have interest in on a short term deal.

Benn is a guy that Dallas will keep.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Benn is a guy that Dallas will keep.

They should but who knows?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Can we still pick up players in waivers for playoffs or is that over

He probably fired Schwartz and trained with new coach who was able to solve Schwartz mistakes

Except Jarry's club goaltender coach is Andy Chiodo since 2021-22 and before that Mike Buckley. Even with hitting the ditch this season Jarry's NHL career stats are 2.74 gaa, .910 save%. A decent read about his 'recovery': A stint in the minors forced Pens' goalie Tristan Jarry to hit the reset button. It may have worked | TSN

Skinner was a mid-level prospect who many were overrating when past Oilers goaltending went glitchy at time. This board was littered with give Skinner a chance, goaltender of the future stuff. He's always been a project with poor innate athletic ability, questionable processor and decision making, puck tracking which are part of Ian Clark's toolkit of 7 key elements of elite goaltenders (athleticism, competitiveness, instinctive ability, reactivity, technique, visual talent, short memory). This is largely an issue of flawed product versus a coaching issue. The Oilers/Skinner's trying to build an airplane of core #1 goaltender attributes and skills while flying aboard a Cup window team. They've added a top mental performance coach George Mumford as a team resource and Skinner's supplementing his biomechanics and movement development needs with Adam Francilia.

Huge resources being pumped into trying to move Skinner beyond his projection as a slow cook development back-up during the Jack Campbell led window bet made by this poorly managed organization that's never prioritized goaltending. I was skeptical then and remain as such of Skinner's lack of athleticism, slow processor and reaction ability, and puck tracking to become an quality, consistent NHL starting goaltender ... at minimum through the original Campbell contract window years.

The true fireable offense was Schwartz and Holland Jr. pro scouting work that identified Jack Campbell as the Oilers big money solution to drive this team's window goaltending. Of course some thought Campbell would have a miracle revival working with Manny Legace, off season and during his Bako banishment, which couldn't put Nice Jack together again. Good guy Jack is currently 2-7 3.01 gaa .882 sv% on a -1 goal share Grand Rapids team.

Oh and Hellybucyk's lifelong goaltending coach is also credited with developing Jack Campbell.

This is an organizational failure to prioritize goaltender strategy over the long-term. To bet badly on Jack Campbell. And to throw its fortune behind a cheap development phase guy instead of seeking a viable 1A/B tandem to mitigate against inconsistent play at the game's most important position... at the most critical time of this organization's window phase reality. There's no quick fix to suddenly fix Skinner into a bonafide consistent quality #1 goaltender.

 

[Slats432]

My numbers may be wrong on Dallas, but the Oilers are not in a position to offersheet anyone or add players. We have our own issues to deal with.

 

[TB12]

Except Jarry's club goaltender coach is Andy Chiodo since 2021-22 and before that Mike Buckley. Even with hitting the ditch this season Jarry's NHL career stats are 2.74 gaa, .910 save%. A decent read about his 'recovery': A stint in the minors forced Pens' goalie Tristan Jarry to hit the reset button. It may have worked | TSN

Skinner was a mid-level prospect who many were overrating when past Oilers goaltending went glitchy at time. This board was littered with give Skinner a chance, goaltender of the future stuff. He's always been a project with poor innate athletic ability, questionable processor and decision making, puck tracking which are part of Ian Clark's toolkit of 7 key elements of elite goaltenders (athleticism, competitiveness, instinctive ability, reactivity, technique, visual talent, short memory). This is largely an issue of flawed product versus a coaching issue. The Oilers/Skinner's trying to build an airplane of core #1 goaltender attributes and skills while flying aboard a Cup window team. They've added a top mental performance coach George Mumford as a team resource and Skinner's supplementing his biomechanics and movement development needs with Adam Francilia.

Huge resources being pumped into trying to move Skinner beyond his projection as a slow cook development back-up during the Jack Campbell led window bet made by this poorly managed organization that's never prioritized goaltending. I was skeptical then and remain as such of Skinner's lack of athleticism, slow processor and reaction ability, and puck tracking to become an quality, consistent NHL starting goaltender ... at minimum through the original Campbell contract window years.

The true fireable offense was Schwartz and Holland Jr. pro scouting work that identified Jack Campbell as the Oilers big money solution to drive this team's window goaltending. Of course some thought Campbell would have a miracle revival working with Manny Legace, off season and during his Bako banishment, which couldn't put Nice Jack together again. Good guy Jack is currently 2-7 3.01 gaa .882 sv% on a -1 goal share Grand Rapids team.

Oh and Hellybucyk's lifelong goaltending coach is also credited with developing Jack Campbell.

This is an organizational failure to prioritize goaltender strategy over the long-term. To bet badly on Jack Campbell. And to throw its fortune behind a cheap development phase guy instead of seeking a viable 1A/B tandem to mitigate against inconsistent play at the game's most important position... at the most critical time of this organization's window phase reality. There's no quick fix to suddenly fix Skinner into a bonafide consistent quality #1 goaltender.

Damn. This entire post is amazing. 10/10. No notes.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Yeah Dallas is going into next year with 8F, 5D and 2G with only 5.3m in space.

As it stands, you're signing 5 guys to 1m deals and running a 20 man group (not ideal). Dumba and Marchment likely traded this summer.

 

[Vagabond]

They only had $1M of the LTIR left.

Easily 3m If you waived Picks and Kapi.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

He's also somehow been worse than Skinner this year statistically.

900 sv percentage 2.77 gaa while Skinner sits at .896 and 2.88 what's statistics is Skinner better at?

 

[guymez]

Except Jarry's club goaltender coach is Andy Chiodo since 2021-22 and before that Mike Buckley. Even with hitting the ditch this season Jarry's NHL career stats are 2.74 gaa, .910 save%. A decent read about his 'recovery': A stint in the minors forced Pens' goalie Tristan Jarry to hit the reset button. It may have worked | TSN

Skinner was a mid-level prospect who many were overrating when past Oilers goaltending went glitchy at time. This board was littered with give Skinner a chance, goaltender of the future stuff. He's always been a project with poor innate athletic ability, questionable processor and decision making, puck tracking which are part of Ian Clark's toolkit of 7 key elements of elite goaltenders (athleticism, competitiveness, instinctive ability, reactivity, technique, visual talent, short memory). This is largely an issue of flawed product versus a coaching issue. The Oilers/Skinner's trying to build an airplane of core #1 goaltender attributes and skills while flying aboard a Cup window team. They've added a top mental performance coach George Mumford as a team resource and Skinner's supplementing his biomechanics and movement development needs with Adam Francilia.

Huge resources being pumped into trying to move Skinner beyond his projection as a slow cook development back-up during the Jack Campbell led window bet made by this poorly managed organization that's never prioritized goaltending. I was skeptical then and remain as such of Skinner's lack of athleticism, slow processor and reaction ability, and puck tracking to become an quality, consistent NHL starting goaltender ... at minimum through the original Campbell contract window years.

The true fireable offense was Schwartz and Holland Jr. pro scouting work that identified Jack Campbell as the Oilers big money solution to drive this team's window goaltending. Of course some thought Campbell would have a miracle revival working with Manny Legace, off season and during his Bako banishment, which couldn't put Nice Jack together again. Good guy Jack is currently 2-7 3.01 gaa .882 sv% on a -1 goal share Grand Rapids team.

Oh and Hellybucyk's lifelong goaltending coach is also credited with developing Jack Campbell.

This is an organizational failure to prioritize goaltender strategy over the long-term. To bet badly on Jack Campbell. And to throw its fortune behind a cheap development phase guy instead of seeking a viable 1A/B tandem to mitigate against inconsistent play at the game's most important position... at the most critical time of this organization's window phase reality. There's no quick fix to suddenly fix Skinner into a bonafide consistent quality #1 goaltender.

There is no doubt that Oilers management have botched the goaltending situation and the Jack Campbell signing was ground zero for the goaltending implosion in the McDavid era. It was a massive mistake and the organization still hasnt recovered from it.

In terms of Skinner....its not unusual for goalies drafted in the 2nd round (or later) to become legit NHL starters.
In Skinners case though if that was the plan (and it clearly looks like it was) they needed to resolve the Campbell mistake early on (by bringing in a capable 1A/1B NHL goalie) so they could properly groom Skinner for that job. They apparently didnt think that was a priority.
So they compounded the Campbell debacle by thinking that the solution was to rush Skinner.
It has clearly backfired on the team and it wasnt really that hard to predict.

I think that there are other issues with this team that contribute to making goalie situation worse than it should be and those issues (a lack of commitment to details at both ends of the ice) have been very evident this season.

The other thing with Skinner, that I am truly baffled by, is why he continues to stay at a playing weight of 230 lbs.
I just cant imagine how a 215 lb Skinner wouldnt be more althlectic (especially with lateral movement) than the current 230 lb version.
Yet his playing weight has remained the same over the last 3 years.

I would really like to hear the teams reasoning with that because from the outside looking in it makes little to no sense. I guess its entirely possible that Skinners weight isnt actually 230 lbs and the bio info at NHL.com is wrong.
If it is right though then IMO that does explain some of the limitations with movement that we see with him.

I have never done any research on this but I am willing to bet that at 230 lbs Skinner is likely one of the heaviest starting goalies to ever play in the NHL...especially at 6'4".
Ben Bishop played at 225 lbs but he was 6'7" tall.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

There is no doubt that Oilers management have botched the goaltending situation and the Jack Campbell signing was ground zero for the goaltending implosion in the McDavid era. Its a massive mistake and the organization still hasnt recovered from it.

In terms of Skinner....its not unusual for goalies drafted in the 2nd round (or later) to become legit NHL starters. In Skinners case though if that was the plan (and it clearly looks like it was) they needed to resolve the Campbell mistake early on (by bringing in a capable 1A/1B NHL goalie) so they could properly groom Skinner for that job. They apparently didnt think that it was a priority.
So they compounded the Campbell debacle by thinking that the solution was to rush Skinner.
It has clearly backfired on the team and it wasnt really that hard to predict.

I think that there are other issues with the team that contribute to making goalie situation worse than it should be and those issues (a lack of commitment to details at both ends of the ice) have been very evident this season.

The other thing with Skinner, that I am truly baffled by, is why he continues to stay at a playing weight of 230 lbs. I just cant imagine how a 215 lb Skinner wouldnt be more althlectic (especially with lateral movement) than the current 230 lb version.
Yet his playing weight has remianed the same over the last 3 years.

I would really like to hear the teams reasoning with that because from the outside looking in it makes little to no sense. I guess its entirely possible that Skinners weight isnt actually 230 lbs and the bio info at NHL.com is wrong.
If it is right though then IMO that does explain some of the limitations with movement that we see with him.
I have never done any research on this but I am willing to bet that at 230 lbs Skinner is likely one of the heaviest goalies to ever play in the NHL.

Goaltender is a tough position to scout and project adding a positional bias that pushes goaltending down in terms of prospect evaluation. Add to reality that only 1 goaltender can play and predominantly historically tends for a dominant 1 goalie model. All things are evolving including more sophisticated goaltender specific scouting, stronger development strategy that include full spectrum resources including mental strength and resiliency (the biggest definer of ability that's is also unseen); strength and conditioning with specialized eye tracking, physical flexibility and mobility and more: bio-mechanical, physical movement and efficiency with specialists like Francillia; and of course technique and refinement - largely smaller tweaks that now follow a lifetime of coaching through amateur youth play and junior/college etc.

Pedigree blue chip prospects taken in the 1st round establish themselves as NHL players within reasonable likelihood as positional players. They can often have a shorter development window moving quicker to NHL but smart organizations also build a quality goaltender pipeline and often don't need to rush young goaltenders. There's a sweet spot in round two because of this industry fear factor positional bias.

The Oilers haven't had a goaltender strategy instead largely re-treading old, established ones who aren't going to be suddenly reborn or shaped through coaching refinement into elite goaltenders. Skinner, for all the physical limitations in this mid-level prospect, I will give some credit for not melting down when thrust into a #1 tender on a mature phase Cup window team within months of just onboarding as a projected three year back-up goaltender. Regarding his weight, this team has top end resources to assess and train all player support needs. I think it's a bit of a red herring with bigger issue - fixed or development - about his limited athleticism, processing and tracking, etc.

One must either believe Skinner is fixed and limited in his upward development curve unable to improve these weaknesses or feel this is deep water ocean learning in the most difficult environment possible for any goaltender which will continue to grow and stabilize with time and experience. For me, I'd have moved on a high end quality 1A//1B tandem goaltender during this failed Campbell contract contingency window.

Hard reality but there's only a real short list of established tenders that consistently hit about X-goals against: In an era of inconsistent goaltending, Connor Hellebuyck stands alone

 

[guymez]

Goaltender is a tough position to scout and project adding a positional bias that pushes goaltending down in terms of prospect evaluation. Add to reality that only 1 goaltender can play and predominantly historically tends for a dominant 1 goalie model. All things are evolving including more sophisticated goaltender specific scouting, stronger development strategy that include full spectrum resources including mental strength and resiliency (the biggest definer of ability that's is also unseen); strength and conditioning with specialized eye tracking, physical flexibility and mobility and more: bio-mechanical, physical movement and efficiency with specialists like Francillia; and of course technique and refinement - largely smaller tweaks that now follow a lifetime of coaching through amateur youth play and junior/college etc.

Pedigree blue chip prospects taken in the 1st round establish themselves as NHL players within reasonable likelihood as positional players. They can often have a shorter development window moving quicker to NHL but smart organizations also build a quality goaltender pipeline and often don't need to rush young goaltenders.

The Oilers haven't had a goaltender strategy instead largely re-treading old, established ones who aren't going to be suddenly reborn or shaped through coaching refinement into elite goaltenders. Skinner, for all the physical limitations in this mid-level prospect, I will give some credit for not melting down when thrust into a #1 tender on a mature phase Cup window team within months of just onboarding as a projected three year back-up goaltender. Regarding his weight, this team has top end resources to assess and train all player support needs. I think it's a bit of a red herring with bigger issue - fixed or development - about his limited athleticism, processing and tracking, etc.

One must either believe Skinner is fixed and limited in his upward development curve unable to improve these weaknesses or feel this is deep water ocean learning in the most difficult environment possible for any goaltender which will continue to grow and stabilize with time and experience. For me, I'd have moved on a high end quality 1A//1B tandem goaltender during this failed Campbell contract contingency window.

Hard reality but there's only a real short list of established tenders that consistently hit about X-goals against: In an era of inconsistent goaltending, Connor Hellebuyck stands alone

Tough to argue with any of this and I especially agree with the need to have brought in a high end quality 1A/1B tandem goalie.
I have to push back a bit on the weight issue though. I dont think thats something to gloss over.

I have trouble understanding the justification for a 6'4" goalie to maintain a playing weight of 230 lbs.
Likely the heaviest goalie to ever play in the NHL.
This is very atypical and it doesnt make a lick of sense to me.

That being said this teams decisions around goaltending havent made sense to me for years so the weight issue (assuming that is his playing weight) fits right in with that.

 

[Mr Positive]

They only had $1M of the LTIR left.

It looks to me like we are only using 1 million. Puckpedia has our spending at 88.95 million

Plus we have a large roster where we could send a few million down.

Plus we could have sent Pickard the other way. Thats 1 million

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Tough to argue with any of this and I especially agree with the need to have brought in a high end quality 1A/1B tandem goalie.
I have to push back a bit on the weight issue though. I dont think thats something to gloss over.

I have trouble understanding the justification for a 6'4" goalie to maintain a playing weight of 230 lbs.
Likely the heaviest goalie to ever play in the NHL.
This is very atypical and it doesnt make a lick of sense to me.

That being said this teams decisions around goaltending havent made sense to me for years so the weight issue (assuming that is his playing weight) fits right in with that.

Robin Lehner played at 6'4" 250 pounds as one specific example. He was a bit of an athletic freak but prone to injuries. Skinner's been durable which is important and a potential issue if he was out of shape or overweight. I doubt the team would neglect this if it was an obvious issue - they have no fallback with another organization failure of limited quality depth. Player's public listings have historically often been shown to be fudged so who actually knows what his true deets are.

He's not athletic which is an issue. I personally think his slow movement is more poor or developing processor/hockey sense with read and react to game situation. The guy is built like a refrigerator bad and good for his vocation. Modern era NHL that's more bad than good with speed of play and technology aided sticks in which every guy can shoot. Historic era a space eater could better do the job.