Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[arso40]

This isn't on Dubas. The big mistake was not talking a stand with Marner before his NMC kicked in. They had a window and they let it slip away. They could have either extended him or moved him. Now they can't do anything unless Marner's good with it. Dubas probably would have made the same mistake but it wasn't him.

Tre couldn’t come in and shake the team like that right away he did the right thing in waiting to understand the team better the mistake was not letting dubas go a year earlier so tre could have the time needed to understand where the changes needed to be made

 

[sunstersun]

I don't know if it's Marner or Matthew's problem, but fact of the matter is they've been stapled together for the most part and the levels of production don't come close to Kuch/Point or McDavid/Drai or Mack/Ratt.

Yet we're paying just as much or more.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Asking Mitch to waive, hurt his ego, the worship he feels. Its a great move by the Leafs, they basically told him, we want Rantanen over u and we wont pay u more than 12 million. Leafs already have a toxic player in Matthews who wants every penny he can get, but plays a secondary role in the playoffs. Leafs are toxic although very good team right now, let Mitch walk, sign Bennett and other humble guys who want to win.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Tre couldn’t come in and shake the team like that right away he did the right thing in waiting to understand the team better the mistake was not letting dubas go a year earlier so tre could have the time needed to understand where the changes needed to be made

I disagree. How often do we hear "it's a business" (including in this thread)? He had a small window where he could have made a move from a position of strength and quite a bit of time before that to position himself to make that move with a willing partner for his small window. Then it would have been "Either extend the contract Mitch or we have this deal in place and you're going to xyz". Instead, that opportunity was lost.

 

[IPS]

I mean in case we needed anymore evidence of how insanely greedy his camp is, if we didn't learn this the first time.

That is honestly insane that the 12x8 Rantanen deal just isn't good enough for him, he could honestly buy some good will back from the fans if he signed that.

 

[arso40]

I disagree. How often do we hear "it's a business" (including in this thread)? He had a small window where he could have made a move from a position of strength and quite a bit of time before that to position himself to make that move with a willing partner for his small window. Then it would have been "Either extend the contract Mitch or we have this deal in place and you're going to xyz". Instead, that opportunity was lost.

Sure but if he made a mistake he’d be fired before he even got a chance to settle in trading marner isn’t an ez thing to pull off

 

[thewave]

I mean in case we needed anymore evidence of how insanely greedy his camp is, if we didn't learn this the first time.

That is honestly insane that the 12x8 Rantanen deal just isn't good enough for him, he could honestly buy some good will back from the fans if he signed that.

Clearly he gives zero shits about what people think. He just wants every dollar he can get. It's obvious he is selfish to say the least and it won't change.

He is in the territory of where a lot of people would laugh if he got car jacked again. Not saying that's right or anything but he doesn't command respect from a lot of people around here.

 

[Da Mash]

This is all hearsay ......we have no idea what Tre was thinking or what was said. Mediots speculation isn't in most cases the truth.

Maybe he asked Marner to waive only because Rantanen (another elite player) was available for a 1 for 1 swap. Tre IMHO wasnt asking Marner to waive for draft picks and secondary players.

Or Carolina asked about Marner and the mediots decided that it was Marners fault for not waiving for the deal to go thru and in reality Tre never asked Marner to waive and said No to Carolina. I mean if he offered Minten, Cowan and two 1st rd picks initially .....dont you think maybe Tre wanted Marner and Rantanen both for the cup run and didnt want Marner to leave?

Till we actually here it from the GM's mouth or Marners camp then all this crap spewed is just hogwash. It gets the mediots clicks or they want viewers to watch them debate about it. All for the sake to cause a stir and we all know the TO mediots best work is to cause a stir. Maybe they should knock on Marners parents door and ask them.....they will stoop lower to get clicks.

 

[IPS]

Clearly he gives zero shits about what people think. He just wants every dollar he can get. It's obvious he is selfish to say the least and it won't change.

He is in the territory of where a lot of people would laugh if he got car jacked again. Not saying that's right or anything but he doesn't command respect from a lot of people around here.

Perhaps this lesson should have been learned when as soon as he came into the organization he tried selling his own stuff with the Leafs logo on it.

 

[thewave]

Perhaps this lesson should have been learned when as soon as he came into the organization he tried selling his own stuff with the Leafs logo on it.

I didn't even know about that. Pretty bad stuff right there but you know what, it rings true to the character he has displayed the whole time. He legit is who he is.

I just mean there is not much of a facade. Maybe just the sort of act how much he loves the Leafs and being hometown

 

[IPS]

I didn't even know about that. Pretty bad stuff right there but you know what, it rings true to the character he has displayed the whole time. He legit is who he is.

Neither did I until Legion34 informed me of it earlier in the thread. Really makes sense now why Lou held those bonuses eh?

 

[Kiwi]

The Rantanen deal is the template here

Rantanen got 12×8, he's at the very least a comparable player to Marner
There's your cut off line, right there

I'm sick and tired of negotiating with ourselves and giving our guys more than the market suggests there worth

So what I would suggest we do is give the Marner camp a 12×8 contract, front loaded with all the bonuses and trade protections he usually gets but have a hard cut off date and stick to it

12M isn't good enough? Fine I can spend it in other places but I'm not giving you one cent more than 12M a year

 

[thewave]

The Rantanen deal is the template here

Rantanen got 12×8, he's at the very least a comparable player to Marner
There's your cut off line, right there

I'm sick and tired of negotiating with ourselves and giving our guys more than the market suggests there worth

So what I would suggest we do is give the Marner camp a 12×8 contract, front loaded with all the bonuses and trade protections he usually gets but have a hard cut off date and stick to it

12M isn't good enough? Fine I can spend it in other places but I'm not giving you one cent more than 12M a year

If they don't change it now the next Knies will sit there and say... 10m

 

[Da Mash]

Agents look at take home pay.

So Rantanen getting 12 mil a year means really nothing. His agent will know the market soon enough IMHO and odds are its more than 12 mil especially playing in Ontario.

 

[thewave]

Agents look a take home pay.

So Rantanen getting 12 mil a year means really nothing. His agent will know the market soon enough IMHO and odds are its more than 12 mil especially playing in Ontario.

The market is what people are willing to give. 3m in endorsement deals apparently. He is going to lose most of that too in some quite US town.

 

[Kiwi]

If they don't change it now the next Knies will sit there and say... 10m

It has to stop and it's not like 12×8 is an unfair amount of money

 

[Kiwi]

Agents look at take home pay.

So Rantanen getting 12 mil a year means really nothing. His agent will know the market soon enough IMHO and odds are its more than 12 mil especially playing in Ontario.

And the team looks at the AAV against the cap, that's a tax issue and that has nothing to do with the team

That's governmental policy and I don't see why the Leafs should pay for that

Also Rantanen is a direct comparable, it means something

 

[thewave]

It has to stop and it's not like 12×8 is an unfair amount of money

It's not unfair. Rantanen is a better player making 12m.

AM was going to get 13 with the Rockets regardless.

They bumped Willy because he signed long and kinda ended up underpaid on the last one.

MM was overpaid on his current and the teams not had playoff success.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

The Rantanen deal is the template here

Rantanen got 12×8, he's at the very least a comparable player to Marner
There's your cut off line, right there

I'm sick and tired of negotiating with ourselves and giving our guys more than the market suggests there worth

So what I would suggest we do is give the Marner camp a 12×8 contract, front loaded with all the bonuses and trade protections he usually gets but have a hard cut off date and stick to it

12M isn't good enough? Fine I can spend it in other places but I'm not giving you one cent more than 12M a year

What does Dallas have to do with Toronto? The template is the asinine Matthews contract, just like last time. The Nylander contract doesn't help.

11.634x5 -> 10.893x6
13.25x4 -> On an 8 year deal? That's more than the 13.25 per. I think we could get him for 12x3 full NMC.

This is a partnership, thank you Austonflation, Shanahan, Treliving and MLSE.

 

[IPS]

It's not unfair. Rantanen is a better player making 12m.

AM was going to get 13 with the Rockets regardless.

They bumped Willy because he signed long and kinda ended up underpaid on the last one.

MM was overpaid on his current and the teams not had playoff success.

AM was always going to write his own check since he's the best goal scorer since Ovi (who essentially wrote his own check too). There is piles upon piles of evidence that goal scoring ability is the most valued thing in contract negotiations as a forward.

 

[Da Mash]

The market is what people are willing to give. 3m in endorsement deals apparently. He is going to lose most of that too in some quite US town.

Yes there is more incentive to stay in a market where you get more endorsements. So yes the Leaf brass may use that to entice Marner to stay here. We see it in other sports also. Playing for the Cowboys or Yankees etc does have their benefits if a player wants to promote their brand.

But in the end.....the agent dont care about the money shown on the contract because taxes etc effects the "take home pay"

my point was Rantanen taking 12 mil from Dallas is not going to force Marners camp (agent) to have a similar cap hit.

 

[thewave]

AM was always going to write his own check since he's the best goal scorer since Ovi (who essentially wrote his own check too). There is piles upon piles of evidence that goal scoring ability is the most valued thing in contract negotiations as a forward.

Exactly..so imagine doing a Dekes deal and paying MM 14,4m having never scored 40 or broken 100pts

 

[IPS]

Exactly..so imagine doing a Dekes deal and paying MM 14,4m having never scored 40 or broken 100pts

Such stupidity can't even be negotiated with.

Also: Pastrnak - who's gotten the richest contract out of this era's group of wingers at 13.5% (save for Marner cause he hasn't signed yet) What is the one thing that separates Pastrnak from the other guys? Can't be goal scoring could it?

 

[Kiwi]

What does Dallas have to do with Toronto? The template is the asinine Matthews contract, just like last time. The Nylander contract doesn't help.

11.634x5 -> 10.893x6
13.25x4 -> On an 8 year deal? That's more than the 13.25 per. I think we could get him for 12x3 full NMC.

This is a partnership, thank you Austonflation, Shanahan, Treliving and MLSE.

Matthews was the top goal scorer in the league last year and plays center, he isn't a comparable

Rantanen and marner are comparable players signing new deals in the same off-season, that's as comparable as it gets

 

[Confucius]

If they don't change it now the next Knies will sit there and say... 10m

Exactly, just because we screwed up before it doesn’t mean we are stuck overpaying in perpetuum