Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[francis246]

From what I have seen in two games the tournament matters to the players. They are not treating it like an all-star game which is what I was hoping for. So you blame Brady for a shitty Sens team not making the playoffs? Classic.

Lmfao I don’t at all blame Brady. I’m poking fun at your flawed logic and how you keep moving the goalposts.

Two weeks ago you and others - this tournament means nothing, even if Marner does well we shouldn’t read into it.

You Today -
“I don’t know if you noticed how competitive the tournament is….”

Now, oh this tournament means something!?! LOL


———

Now all of a sudden it’s not all on one players shoulders if they don’t have success as a team.


“MARNER IS A SOFT WINGER NO TEAM CAN WIN WITH HIM”

You today: “so all the failure is on Brady Tkachuk’s fault?”

It’s almost as if you win as a team and lose as a team correct?


LOLOL. Make it make sense.

 

[Racer88]

That's why I suggested Mitch might be looking at 1 year deals. The cap will go up each year and he can make even more money just committing to 1 year.

The only problem is injuries. In that scenario he is one injure away from working at Home Depot

 

[ToneDog]

I agree with that. I would just tell him we aren't interested in your services anymore. The guy is going to lose a lot on endorsements alone. He will panic.

I would have traded him after the Habs series. Hell there was no way in hell I would have given him what Dumbass did. I would have let him, his dad and Ferris rot in hell.

 

[thewave]

Lmfao I don’t at all blame Brady. I’m poking fun at your flawed logic and how you keep moving the goalposts.

Two weeks ago you and others - this tournament means nothing, even if Marner does well we shouldn’t read into it.

You Today -
“I don’t know if you noticed how competitive the tournament is….”

Now, oh this tournament means something!?! LOL


———

Now all of a sudden it’s not all on one players shoulders if they don’t have success as a team.


“MARNER IS A SOFT WINGER NO TEAM CAN WIN WITH HIM”

You today: “so all the failure is on Brady Tkachuk’s fault?”

It’s almost as if you win as a team and lose as a team correct?


LOLOL. Make it make sense.

Marner turns into a Domi or Kerfoot when the game gets tough. It's not good enough for 12m+

I would have traded him after the Habs series. Hell there was no way in hell I would have given him what Dumbass did. I would have let him, his dad and Ferris rot in hell.

Same. Got ya

 

[francis246]

Marner turns into a Domi or Kerfoot when the game gets tough. It's not good enough for 12m+


Same. Got ya

If that was true wouldn’t they have the same amount of career points or close to it


Kerfoot - 18 points in 46 games

Domi - 26 points in 50 games


Soooooo not quite buddy.

 

[thewave]

If that was true wouldn’t they have the same amount of career points or close to it


Kerfoot - 18 points in 46 games

Domi - 26 points in 50 games


Soooooo not quite buddy.

In games 5 6 7 Marner has .40ppg looks about right

 

[ToneDog]

Lmfao I don’t at all blame Brady. I’m poking fun at your flawed logic and how you keep moving the goalposts.

Two weeks ago you and others - this tournament means nothing, even if Marner does well we shouldn’t read into it.

You Today -
“I don’t know if you noticed how competitive the tournament is….”

Now, oh this tournament means something!?! LOL


———

Now all of a sudden it’s not all on one players shoulders if they don’t have success as a team.


“MARNER IS A SOFT WINGER NO TEAM CAN WIN WITH HIM”

You today: “so all the failure is on Brady Tkachuk’s fault?”

It’s almost as if you win as a team and lose as a team correct?


LOLOL. Make it make sense.

I thought it would be a nothing tournament before the first game. I changed my opinion after watching the first two games. Is that not allowed? You don't think I would change my opinion of Marner if he scores a couple of goals in regulation tonight and/or in the final or if he led the Leafs to the ECF or further?

 

[francis246]

I thought it would be a nothing tournament before the first game. I changed my opinion after watching the first two games. Is that not allowed?

It’s allowed, you don’t need permission from me to do anything, I just find it a bit funny, that’s all.

I just recognize, it was definitely something I know a few of you were looking forward to using, in order to continue to diminish Marner’s game and contributions. Now that you believe the tournament is not an “all star game”, it slightly reduces the chances of that happening though, some wasted no time trying after Marner’s game winner.

In games 5 6 7 Marner has .40ppg looks about right

Lmao forgot that only 3 games matter in the playoffs. Gotta account for that moving forward. Gotcha

 

[Racer88]

You didn’t even read my post if you think I said he took a pay cut. I don’t think he should take a pay cut.

You are blaming Mitch for the leafs failures. That’s what I read.

I can’t wait until Mitch re-signs. It sucks that it feels like I’m the minority.

If he would sign for something in the 11’s I could maybe stomach that but Marner at 13-14 would be awful. It would be nice for once to see the Leafs come out ahead of the cap instead of always waiting for the cap to rise so we can build out the rest of the team properly.
Yes I know they are projecting the cap to rise but they were also projecting that then Covid hit. We now have a looming and most likely probable world wide but certainly North American recession due to Trumps insanity. That will likely kick the crap out if all these rosy cap expectations

 

[ToneDog]

If he would sign for something in the 11’s I could maybe stomach that but Marner at 13-14 would be awful. It would be nice for once to see the Leafs come out ahead of the cap instead of always waiting for the cap to rise so we can build out the rest of the team properly.
Yes I know they are projecting the cap to rise but they were also projecting that then Covid hit. We now have a looming and most likely probable world wide but certainly North American recession due to Trumps insanity. That will likely kick the crap out if all these rosy cap expectations

It would be repeating Dubas signing him for 10.893x6. This overpaid core has won one playoff round (thanks to Vasi) in 6 years, yet some are afraid we will be worse if we let one walk for nothing and use the cap space to go in a different direction.

 

[Hellcat]

Be better?

A scrawny little guy that does not work out hardly for strength and is slow, never won a thing with us just used the media again to basically say screw you, the team, your discounts etc. HE SAID I am not waiving and don't care and not signing until I see my options.

That's what he just did.

Can't stand him, he can take his ass out of here. I don't care about regular season in the face of 8 playoff failures that he is a massive part of.

What you can't stand is is a fabricated short story that you pulled out of your back side? Gotchya. I'm not really one for fiction either. Jack and the Beanstock is more rooted in truth than that pile of poo.

 

[francis246]

If he would sign for something in the 11’s I could maybe stomach that but Marner at 13-14 would be awful. It would be nice for once to see the Leafs come out ahead of the cap instead of always waiting for the cap to rise so we can build out the rest of the team properly.
Yes I know they are projecting the cap to rise but they were also projecting that then Covid hit. We now have a looming and most likely probable world wide but certainly North American recession due to Trumps insanity. That will likely kick the crap out if all these rosy cap expectations

I think most important is that if they give Marner the 13 million. He cannot get a full NMC. There’s precedent for UFA’s signing extensions with limited NMC’s. That would be my sticking point. They have to have the option to move him if things don’t work. That’s the only logical way I can accept a deal like that. Pastrnak has a limited NMC I think in the latter years.

 

[therealkoho]

Can the Marner money be better deployed in other areas is an important question because to me it’s about can this core group win a cup together and I don’t think they can. Too similar, too soft and don’t have it in them to battle as hard as their opponents will. They’re not going to suddenly change to become gritty superstars like Crosby, Toews or Kucherov and how can they find that player / leader with these guys running the show ?

As bad as the optics might be, if they flame out in the playoffs again, major roster changes must happen. Let Marner walk, sign Tavares as a 3C to $4M x 4 or let him walk, buyout or trade Domi, take the $22M in addition cap space and bring in players that know how to win when it counts like Bennett, Braydon Schenn, Marchand … Target Chychrun, Eckblad as UFA’s or Rasmus Andersson who is one year away.

If McDavid doesn’t re-sign over the summer in Edmonton, they need to plan to have cap space available for him if he gets to UFA in July 2026 or perhaps trade for him prior to that because Edmonton won’t want to see him walk away for nothing.

Moving off their core group and Thinking outside the box is something the Shanahan Leafs have never been prepared to do. Let’s hope he’s no longer around to prevent it from happening.

Depending on UFAs to build your team isn't sound reasoning. First you don't know if they're going to reach that status, it's highly likely they wont. How do you acquire even one of those players who won't be a free agent like Brayden Schenn. Leafs are low on meaningful assets and once Marners gone, your draft capitol probably won't get you Schenn. Even if it did, I like Brayden and all but he's just a rougher version of JT. There's not much difference in their age he's a good 3C whereas JT would be elite.

Seriously fellow Leafers if they lose Marner, there really isn't enough there to even be as good as we are now

 

[francis246]

Depending on UFAs to build your team isn't sound reasoning. First you don't know if they're going to reach that status, it's highly likely they wont. How do you acquire even one of those players who won't be a free agent like Brayden Schenn. Leafs are low on meaningful assets and once Marners gone, your draft capitol probably won't get you Schenn. Even if it did, I like Brayden and all but he's just a rougher version of JT. There's not much difference in their age he's a good 3C whereas JT would be elite.

Seriously fellow Leafers if they lose Marner, there really isn't enough there to even be as good as we are now

Ding ding ding. All you have to do is look at this years UFA class.

I think honestly the leafs have to pray some team out there loves one of or some combination of Danford, Grebyonkin, Cowan, Minten, Hildeby, AA, Niemela or Hirovinen more than you do and will trade you a young player in exchange for them.

If I’m Toronto I’m pestering the shit out of Buffalo for one of Krebs or Cozens. Same with one of the young guys out in Anaheim. Maybe you can convince them to trade you MacTavish or something.

 

[ToneDog]

Depending on UFAs to build your team isn't sound reasoning. First you don't know if they're going to reach that status, it's highly likely they wont. How do you acquire even one of those players who won't be a free agent like Brayden Schenn. Leafs are low on meaningful assets and once Marners gone, your draft capitol probably won't get you Schenn. Even if it did, I like Brayden and all but he's just a rougher version of JT. There's not much difference in their age he's a good 3C whereas JT would be elite.

Seriously fellow Leafers if they lose Marner, there really isn't enough there to even be as good as we are now

So you are OK to pay him more than Matty and running them back next year, even if they are punted in round 1 or 2?

Winston Churchill said, “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

Sure looks like not many Leaflanders agree with him or have some learning to do.

 

[Confucius]

8 years times 11 million, get ir done Trev.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I'd say Nick Paul's Golden goal in 2017 was a bigger clutch goal but yes, we need to see Marner do it again.

That was 2015, so technically just over a decade.

Guarantee his camp is eyeing a 2-year deal. Cap projections have it going up magnitudes in a couple years time (though myself personally, I suspect real word economy problems are going to get in the way of this) and signing long-term now versus a couple years time could mean a galaxy's difference in $$$. Mitch is money hungry, it's obviously no secret, he's not looking to lock himself out of potential paydays with a cap that's $110M+

Negotiating for just a two year deal makes no sense for the Leafs. The four year Matthews model is what I see if it's not max term.

They might have to ask him for permission to move him. They can't let him walk for nothing.

Which brings up a question for me: Is a NMC absolute or could the Leafs conceivably trade Marner's rights in June for a draft choice without his permission?

He is a POS because he and his agent are playing a snakes game. Show me when he took accountability for losses.

He fought for that overpay and the hostage holding in the last year with a literal idiot GM in Dubas. Took advantage.

Why blame Marner for having a good agent who successfully used Matthews and Tavares as Marner's only comparables rather than the rest of the league? Dubas is the POS here.

I think most important is that if they give Marner the 13 million. He cannot get a full NMC. There’s precedent for UFA’s signing extensions with limited NMC’s. That would be my sticking point. They have to have the option to move him if things don’t work. That’s the only logical way I can accept a deal like that. Pastrnak has a limited NMC I think in the latter years.

Agreed. If Marner is re-signed, the Leafs need to push for some flexibility in the last year(s) of the contract.

 

[Sundinisagod]

8 years times 11 million, get ir done Trev.

That would very fair imho.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He might!

And then again, he might not. Which would you say is more likely?

Consider that up to this point in his career, he's a ~100 point player for 86 games, then he turns into a ~40 point player. Not only that, but IIRC the last 2 playoff series he has a mere 6 points in 14 games so he's also trending down.

I hope he busts out in the playoffs but objectively speaking, it sure doesn't seem likely. Great regular season player though, I can understand why people who don't care much about playoffs would want to keep him. The people that want to win the cup and also want to keep Marner, now those are the people who I have trouble understanding.

They might have to ask him for permission to move him. They can't let him walk for nothing.

Of course they can. If the choices are letting walk or to commit to him for a huge cap hit, letting him walk would be the best option as far as I'm concerned.

 

[IPS]

8 years times 11 million, get ir done Trev.

Mitch isn't going to sign for a cap % that's even less than his current contract.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The only problem is injuries. In that scenario he is one injure away from working at Home Depot

But honestly, how often does a player get injured, like a serious injury at his age? Can't be many.

It's not like he operates in a highly physical area as well. He'll be fine. He can really maximize his earnings.

 

[ToneDog]

That was 2015, so technically just over a decade.

Negotiating for just a two year deal makes no sense for the Leafs. The four year Matthews model is what I see if it's not max term.

Which brings up a question for me: Is a NMC absolute or could the Leafs conceivably trade Marner's rights in June for a draft choice without his permission?

Why blame Marner for having a good agent who successfully used Matthews and Tavares as Marner's only comparables rather than the rest of the league? Dubas is the POS here.

Agreed. If Marner is re-signed, the Leafs need to push for some flexibility in the last year(s) of the contract.

Are you sure?

 

[ToneDog]

8 years times 11 million, get ir done Trev.

Not a chance Geeedy Gonzalez accepts that. Hell $12.8mx8 did not get it done.

 

[Sypher04]

I think most important is that if they give Marner the 13 million. He cannot get a full NMC. There’s precedent for UFA’s signing extensions with limited NMC’s. That would be my sticking point. They have to have the option to move him if things don’t work. That’s the only logical way I can accept a deal like that. Pastrnak has a limited NMC I think in the latter years.

While I don’t disagree in concept, he’ll never agree to that after we gave Willy a NMC for 8 years.

 

[All Mod Cons]

8 years times 11 million, get ir done Trev.

Can't imagine Mitch would accept such a little amount.