Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[All Mod Cons]

It's absolutely wild to think we have 4 of the top 12 cap hits in the entire league on our roster.

 

[Stringer Bell]

I have no problem with agreeing to that. But it’s still hypocritical and deserves to be called out.

The same people on here spent weeks shitting on myself and others about this tournament in this thread are now trying to use it as a point as it’s important.

You couldn’t pick apart my post even if you tried, because it’s factual. There’s no lies or anything to pick apart. It’s what happened in real time. The truth of the matter is some of you have spent the entire year twisting narratives to fit your agenda. Especially when it comes to Marner. Classic, “I’m not gonna give you a reason why you’re wrong but you’re wrong “statement

If people who think Marner just isn’t good enough in games that matter have been twisting narratives to fit their agenda, they haven’t had to twist very hard.

 

[francis246]

It's absolutely wild to think we have 4 of the top 12 cap hits in the entire league on our roster.

That’s my biggest take away. They are not on the same level as McDavid, MacKinnon, even Barkov. We screwed the pooch a bit.

The leafs drafted 3 insanely talented players but they do not have that competitiveness. It sucks.

 

[francis246]

If people who think Marner just isn’t good enough in games that matter have been twisting narratives to fit their agenda, they haven’t had to twist very hard.

If people who think Marner just isn’t good enough in games that matter have been twisting narratives to fit their agenda, they haven’t had to twist very hard.

At the end of the day, you can’t have it both ways. Either this tournament matters, or it doesn’t. You and others spent weeks saying it was meaningless, but now you’re using it as proof of something when it fits your agenda. That’s the definition of hypocrisy. Point, blank, period.

If you want to keep moving the goalposts, go ahead, but i ain’t entertaining bad-faith arguments. Have a good one

 

[thewave]

At the end of the day, you can’t have it both ways. Either this tournament matters, or it doesn’t. You and others spent weeks saying it was meaningless, but now you’re using it as proof of something when it fits your agenda. That’s the definition of hypocrisy. Point, blank, period.

If you want to keep moving the goalposts, go ahead, but i ain’t entertaining bad-faith arguments. Have a good one

Why are you talking about the tournament? Yes some people thought it may be for show. It turned out to be the real deal which is great.

Marner is still not capable of being effective in the big games. His play in this tournament should actually settle it for Leafs brass when it comes to his camp asking 13m. The answer should be a polite laugh followed by a, I think that is out of our range. He has to come down or forget the NMC.

@francis246 Do you think Marner is doing well?

 

[Mugzy97]

Ok Shanny. The only thing that is delusional is hoping that things will be different this season after going 1-8 in the playoffs. Can’t build a cup contender when four players take half the cap. Especially soft players who disappear when the games mean the most.

The caps waited 12 years with Ovechkin to finally win the cup. Why didn’t they get rid of him?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Not going to spend the time picking apart your post, but you’re just wrong here.

Doesn’t really matter what anyone thought about this game prior to the puck actually dropping. But as soon as it did, 3 fights in the first minute showed that it mattered regardless of what any outside fan thought or thinks. This was the exact game that would test whether we could expect anything better of Marner these upcoming playoffs and he failed miserably.

How did he fail exactly?

Why are you talking about the tournament? Yes some people thought it may be for show. It turned out to be the real deal which is great.

Marner is still not capable of being effective in the big games. His play in this tournament should actually settle it for Leafs brass when it comes to his camp asking 13m. The answer should be a polite laugh followed by a, I think that is out of our range. He has to come down or forget the NMC.

@francis246 Do you think Marner is doing well?

He hasn't been a star, but he has played well.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If people who think Marner just isn’t good enough in games that matter have been twisting narratives to fit their agenda, they haven’t had to twist very hard.

It was a bit more important than the last game as faras the tournament goes. For Canada, the game against the Finns is even more important.

 

[Trapper]

That’s my biggest take away. They are not on the same level as McDavid, MacKinnon, even Barkov. We screwed the pooch a bit.

The leafs drafted 3 insanely talented players but they do not have that competitiveness. It sucks.

I haven’t watched many Leaf games this year (can’t take the run it back anymore) but I tuned into the 4 Nations to see if Berube taught these guys anything about playoff style/intensity hockey.
Nope.
The individuals play like the last 8 years to me.

 

[thewave]

Well those were two Stanley cup level teams on steroids last night so fortunately we don't have to prepare for that.

Matthews was good at position. It was actually a solid game for him less the goal scoring, so I think he will be good in a deep run ((Think he is still hurt)).

Nylander is having moments where he looks good and others where he is lost. When the Finns bogged him down as the Canadians, he almost gives up. He can be dangerous though but among true peers he struggles to elevate so probably have to use him with with Matthews or match ups.

Marner given a slower tempo and less physicality was excellent. Give him time and space and he was making some beauty passes. When it got intense, he is watching. It's like the Toronto powerplay. I feel MLSE has made the Leafs too slow of a team and the players have been moving at a slow tempo which became their comfort zone.

Ultimately. I think the Leafs need to add speed and urgency to their game. They need supplemental speed and for that Marner and JT both should be moved on from.

Thought I would bring this over because the discussion is more fitting here.

 

[JL17]

Marner did make some nice passes. There comes games like these where as a player you have go out and play outside of your comfort zone because everyone else is. Hughes has no issue taking or giving hits. Every player on the ice went out of their comfort zone. Mitch needs to figure out how to engage in physical play. Time and space works for Mitch he needs to figure out what to do with no time and space and change that mentality.

 

[ToneDog]

At the end of the day, you can’t have it both ways. Either this tournament matters, or it doesn’t. You and others spent weeks saying it was meaningless, but now you’re using it as proof of something when it fits your agenda. That’s the definition of hypocrisy. Point, blank, period.

If you want to keep moving the goalposts, go ahead, but i ain’t entertaining bad-faith arguments. Have a good one

What the fans thought before the tournament has no bearing on the games. Three fights in the first 9 seconds shows how much they matter to the players. If not they would be competing like Marner, Matthews and Nylander.

 

[Leaf Fans]

What the fans thought before the tournament has no bearing on the games. Three fights in the first 9 seconds shows how much they matter to the players. If not they would be competing like Marner, Matthews and Nylander.

Those three are competing in the tournament.

 

[ToneDog]

Those three are competing in the tournament.

Did not say they were not. They are, just at a lower level. No surprise for me.

 

[JL17]

The tournament can mean nothing in the grand scheme but the games mean a lot. But anyone who puts on their countries jersey always plays at a high level.

 

[francis246]

What the fans thought before the tournament has no bearing on the games. Three fights in the first 9 seconds shows how much they matter to the players. If not they would be competing like Marner, Matthews and Nylander.

It doesn’t make it any less hypocritical. Let me ask you this. And this will be the litmus test to determine whether or not your hypocrisy stands.

Do you REALISTICALLY believe that your opinion would change of Marner if he goes out in the next two games and plays spectacular or will you hold firm that you don’t think the leafs really need him. And please don’t give me some bullshit answer.

We both know deep down you know the answer. So if your position remains the same, then you cannot in good faith say that you value this tournament. You only value it now that the intensity is up and in combination with Marner not playing well. I would bet my MORTGAGE that for a lot of you it would not matter if Marner played well, you’d still be arguing that it’s not the leafs playoff so his play in this tournament is irrelevant. That’s the whole frustration. You lot pick and choose when the narrative is convenient for you.

 

[hullsy47]

Marner did make some nice passes. There comes games like these where as a player you have go out and play outside of your comfort zone because everyone else is. Hughes has no issue taking or giving hits. Every player on the ice went out of their comfort zone. Mitch needs to figure out how to engage in physical play. Time and space works for Mitch he needs to figure out what to do with no time and space and change that mentality.

He didnt do mich in a really physical playoff style game

Mitch isn't going to sign for a cap % that's even less than his current contract.

Well hes no mcdavid nor rantanen
Those u do m9ve mountains for

 

[ToneDog]

It doesn’t make it any less hypocritical. Let me ask you this. And this will be the litmus test to determine whether or not your hypocrisy stands.

Do you REALISTICALLY believe that your opinion would change of Marner if he goes out in the next two games and plays spectacular or will you hold firm that you don’t think the leafs really need him. And please don’t give me some bullshit answer.

We both know deep down you know the answer. So if your position remains the same, then you cannot in good faith say that you value this tournament. You only value it now that the intensity is up and in combination with Marner not playing well. I would bet my MORTGAGE that for a lot of you it would not matter if Marner played well, you’d still be arguing that it’s not the leafs playoff so his play in this tournament is irrelevant. That’s the whole frustration. You lot pick and choose when the narrative is convenient for you.

Marner's play in these two games has reenforced my opinion that his game does not translate to playoff hockey. If he scores a few goals and competes harder in regulation, it will give me hope for the playoffs but he has a lot of work to do to prove he is worth what he is asking for and can help win us a Cup.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Hes a great player and were lucky to have him.

Making him the highest paid player in the NHL is a joke. It can't happen

 

[ToneDog]

He didnt do mich in a really physical playoff style game


Well hes no mcdavid nor rantanen
Those u do m9ve mountains for

Rantanen was MEH vs USA (maybe hurting). Goal and assist yesterday vs their biggest foe to put them in a position to get to the final with a win over Canada. I don't like their chances, but they have a shot, especially after last night's physical game, questionable Canadian goaltending, injuries on D and some Canadian forwards looking slow.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Just because this stupid tournament is meaningless to some of the fans doesn't mean it's meaningless to the players.

Furthermore people are allowed to change their opinion. That's why it's called opinion and not fact. There's no rule that says you have to dig in your heels when you're wrong.

Even though it seems like most on here prefer to do exactly that.

It's not hypocriscy to change your mind. A flat-earther who finally realizes the world is round isn't a hypocrite. It just means he's no longer ignorant of basic geography.

Everybody makes mistakes.

I still think anything that happens at this stupid meaningless tournament proves nothing. It also SHOULDN'T affect the players performance when they return to NHL action. But that doesn't mean the players feel the same way.

If Marner thinks it's a pressure situation we can expect he'll play the exact same way he has in every pressure situation prior to this one... poorly.

 

[francis246]

Marner's play in these two games has reenforced my opinion that his game does not translate to playoff hockey. If he scores a few goals and competes harder in regulation, it will give me hope for the playoffs but he has a lot of work to do to prove he is worth what he is asking for and can help win us a Cup.

That’s an honest answer, thank you

 

[ToneDog]

Hes a great player and were lucky to have him.

Making him the highest paid player in the NHL is a joke. It can't happen

Mirtle has said, the Leafs are willing to make him one of the top 6 or 7 highest paid players in the game. Nobody is paying him more than Drasaitl but he might be able to get the Leafs to cave and make him the 2nd highest paid player in the league which would do him no favours with the fanbase IMO.

 

[Anthrax442]

His nickname should be the Paratrooper because he pulls the 'chute as soon as there is danger

 

[francis246]

Marner's play in these two games has reenforced my opinion that his game does not translate to playoff hockey. If he scores a few goals and competes harder in regulation, it will give me hope for the playoffs but he has a lot of work to do to prove he is worth what he is asking for and can help win us a Cup.

And just to be clear, what I think is hypocritical is the application of importance of the tournament to Marner’s standing with the Maple Leafs.

Not the tournament itself.