Mitch Marner Vs Brady Tkachuk for the future

[FerrisRox]

Marner is the better player, so there's no reason not to take him if you can get them on equal salaries and cap hits.

No reason?

I can think of a reason: I want to win in the post-season.

At even money, I still take Tkachuk, and it's a very easy choice.

 

[FerrisRox]

Taking Marner just for the kings ransom he'd command at the deadline

Oh yeah, heading into he playoffs all the top GM's would be clamouring to add Mitch Marner.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No reason?

I can think of a reason: I want to win in the post-season.

At even money, I still take Tkachuk, and it's a very easy choice.

You want to win in the post season and to do that you'll take take the guy that's never been to the post season?

Do you see how ridiculous that is?

Unless you missed the title and you think this poll is about Matt instead of Brady.

 

[FerrisRox]

How can a player that's never been to the playoffs give you a better chance to win? that is literally impossible

So if I said to you I think Connor Bedard gives the Leafs a better chance to win in the playoffs than Ryan Reeves does, you would tell that is literally impossible?

You want to win in the post season and to do that you'll take take the guy that's never been to the post season?

Yes, absolutely.

Do you see how ridiculous that is?

No, I don't think it's ridiculous in the slightest.

Unless you missed the title and you think this poll is about Matt instead of Brady.

I didn't miss the title, but I think you're being completely pedantic.

 

[Felidae]

Yeah, maybe if they pay Marner 13 million, that will finally be enough for him to take the next step? Come on with the epic excuse making.

Where am I making excuses? I've already acknowledged the vast majority of his PO career has been disappointing. What im saying is that he's shown himself capable of good PO runs, and we've seen players turn their playoff reputation around.

Marner is well into this. The two years before 2022, Nichushkin was on the third line rebuilding his career. And he certainly wasn’t doing that on a 10.9M contract. This comparison of before 2022 is highly disingenuous.

Nichushkin was also well into his career before he revamped it. He was on the third line because that's where he belonged at the time, he had a different career path than most but the point is that if a player can turn their career around as drastically as Nichushkin can, it's not unreasonable to think that Marner still has time to do the same in the POs. Especially since he's already shown short runs of good postseason play.

And again, back to this comparison, we're comparing him to a player that's clearly inferior in the RS, and is an unknown in the POs.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Marner is more talented, but for some odd reason just doesn't show up when it matters, maybe he'll figure it out in the future, but as of right now, I'd rather add Tkachuk to my team.

 

[Bileur]

I know It's not all about points that's why I brought up defense to.

Or Did you miss that part?

Not only did I not miss it. I expressly acknowledged it.

You really can’t imagine why some leafs fans, in spite of Marner’s superior offensive and defensive skill, might be tired of and ready to move on from this:

It’s not surprising that you’re refusing to address the elephant in the room, which is Marner’s physical and mental softness.

Leafs players sure seem aware of it

 

[A1LeafNation]

Tkachuk

 

[saintunspecified]

Marner plays an extra two minutes per game over Tkachuk, which definitely helps with Marner's point totals.

I'm a neutral fan. That 2 minutes is on the PK. That is, Marner averages 2 minutes on the PK per game.

I've notice a remarkable trend that people think Marner is a 1-dimensional scorer, whereas his coaches consistently heap him with defensive responsibilities.

I think Marner would be better late season & playoffs contributor on a team with a more balanced forward corps where he could play 1-2 minutes less per game in the regular season. Call him soft if you like, but I'll judge that whoever is making that judgment has no idea what it's like to be a slight (relative to NHLers) frame playing 20+ minutes as a forward a night, unable to keep on weight as the season goes on. The person who calls that soft has no idea what they're talking about.

I don't really care about the comparison. Take Marner off the Leafs, and see how well they do. I'll enjoy. (Okay, so I'm an Islanders fan so not really all that neutral. I'm enjoying the chaos their ridiculous UFA signing of JT is still wreaking on their franchise. Not hurt, mind you. They did us a favor.)

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Marner has the playoff experience, Tkachuk has none.

 

[FerrisRox]

I know It's not all about points that's why I brought up defense to.

Or Did you miss that part?

I think you might be struggling here. Read the post that you are responding to again.

You are literally asking him if he "missed" something that he expressly pointed out himself.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I know It's not all about points that's why I brought up defense to.

Or Did you miss that part?

Seems like you missed the whole part, in your response.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Mitch is a great player but I'm taking Brady when considering all factors - salary, age, skillset.

 

[Joe n]

So if I said to you I think Connor Bedard gives the Leafs a better chance to win in the playoffs than Ryan Reeves does, you would tell that is literally impossible?



Yes, absolutely.



No, I don't think it's ridiculous in the slightest.



I didn't miss the title, but I think you're being completely pedantic.

It's been 6 years with Brady. Shouldn't he have made the playoffs at least once in that time? He's not good enough to make the playoffs but somehow will be a difference maker if he ever makes it.

 

[Bileur]

It's been 6 years with Brady. Shouldn't he have made the playoffs at least once in that time? He's not good enough to make the playoffs but somehow will be a difference maker if he ever makes it.

I agree. It’s the same reasoning that demonstrates that Ray Bourque simply wasn’t good enough individually to win a cup for the first 20 years of his career. Thankfully he had that last jump in personal development during his 21st season and finally became good enough, as an individual, to win a cup.

 

[Xspyrit]

It's not that small of a difference, but we'll probably agree to disagree on that.

Marner is also a better two way player though. Just this year he's 44th (2 min) among forwards in SHTOI. As far as first line forwards go he's one of the better PKers in the league. I can't even find Tkachuk in the top 200, and judging by his nonexistent SH stats, I assume he doesn't play much SH, if at all.

9 points at ES over 2 seasons is a very small difference to me, particularly when talking about 80+ pts players

And no, Tkachuk doesn't really PK as they had guys for that role, like Mathieu Joseph who has been one of the best PK forwards of the last 5 years

yes. 6 years in the league, no playoffs. But he will be better if he ever makes it into the post season.

Hmmm... disingenuity or zero memory? I literally explained it to you yesterday. He started playing in the NHL a few months after the Ottawa Senators decided to do a FULL rebuild (it means they have traded or let go EVERY player that was on that 2017 ECF team)

Even if the rebuild went on perfectly, he wouldn't have much playoffs experience

It's been 6 years with Brady. Shouldn't he have made the playoffs at least once in that time? He's not good enough to make the playoffs but somehow will be a difference maker if he ever makes it.

Tkachuk is far from being one of the main reasons why Ottawa hasn't made the playoffs yet. First, 6 years is not that long when you went through a 100% rebuild

They had possibly the worst owner until he passed away, then they were stuck with the worst GM who was sticking to possibly the worst coaching staff until the team finally got sold. It's not even been a full year since the changes yet.

Yes a better GM would have been able to bring that team to the playoffs earlier but considering the whole context, it's not that surprising if Ottawa hasn't made the playoffs. I have been one of Dorion biggest critics

 

[Joe n]

9 points at ES over 2 seasons is a very small difference to me, particularly when talking about 80+ pts players

And no, Tkachuk doesn't really PK as they had guys for that role, like Mathieu Joseph who has been one of the best PK forwards of the last 5 years



Hmmm... disingenuity or zero memory? I literally explained it to you yesterday. He started playing in the NHL a few months after the Ottawa Senators decided to do a FULL rebuild (it means they have traded or let go EVERY player that was on that 2017 ECF team)

Even if the rebuild went on perfectly, he wouldn't have much playoffs experience



Tkachuk is far from being one of the main reasons why Ottawa hasn't made the playoffs yet. First, 6 years is not that long when you went through a 100% rebuild

They had possibly the worst owner until he passed away, then they were stuck with the worst GM who was sticking to possibly the worst coaching staff until the team finally got sold. It's not even been a full year since the changes yet.

Yes a better GM would have been able to bring that team to the playoffs earlier but considering the whole context, it's not that surprising if Ottawa hasn't made the playoffs. I have been one of Dorion biggest critics

Seems like a lot of excuses.

 

[Xspyrit]

Seems like a lot of excuses.

No lol, that's pretty much how the universe works

Causes ----> Effects

Tkachuk is really really far down the list of causes as to why the Ottawa Senators have missed the playoffs (effect) during the first 6 years of their rebuild

And you keep bringing this up in an INIDIVIDUAL comparison

I don't know if you realize how silly that looks?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Seems like a lot of excuses.

Well you should know if anyone, it’s been 20 years of excuses.

 

[ACC1224]

Not only did I not miss it. I expressly acknowledged it.



It’s not surprising that you’re refusing to address the elephant in the room, which is Marner’s physical and mental softness.

Leafs players sure seem aware of it

Matthews was blasting Nylander there for his indifference, had nothing to do with Marner.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Yet he's crushing marner in the poll. Maybe you need to try and be objective.

Shall we bump the Stutzle vs Matthews poll from last year to show how meaningless this is?

 

[Fatass]

Matthews was blasting Nylander there for his indifference, had nothing to do with Marner.

Is this the occasion where Nylander was telling Marner this isn’t junior?

 

[ACC1224]

Is this the occasion where Nylander was telling Marner this isn’t junior?

He wasn't speaking to Marner. It was between Matthews and Nylander.

 

[Fatass]

9 points at ES over 2 seasons is a very small difference to me, particularly when talking about 80+ pts players

And no, Tkachuk doesn't really PK as they had guys for that role, like Mathieu Joseph who has been one of the best PK forwards of the last 5 years



Hmmm... disingenuity or zero memory? I literally explained it to you yesterday. He started playing in the NHL a few months after the Ottawa Senators decided to do a FULL rebuild (it means they have traded or let go EVERY player that was on that 2017 ECF team)

Even if the rebuild went on perfectly, he wouldn't have much playoffs experience



Tkachuk is far from being one of the main reasons why Ottawa hasn't made the playoffs yet. First, 6 years is not that long when you went through a 100% rebuild

They had possibly the worst owner until he passed away, then they were stuck with the worst GM who was sticking to possibly the worst coaching staff until the team finally got sold. It's not even been a full year since the changes yet.

Yes a better GM would have been able to bring that team to the playoffs earlier but considering the whole context, it's not that surprising if Ottawa hasn't made the playoffs. I have been one of Dorion biggest critics

Clubs top minute guys (leaders) are why they make or miss the playoffs. The fact is Marner is a key player in helping the Leafs make the playoffs consistently. Brady Tkatchuk isn’t doing that for the Sens. Got to go with the guy who can do that.

He wasn't speaking to Marner. It was between Matthews and Nylander.

Matthews never played junior. Pretty sure Marner was the target of these comments.

 

[ACC1224]

Clubs top minute guys (leaders) are why they make or miss the playoffs. The fact is Marner is a key player in helping the Leafs make the playoffs consistently. Brady Tkatchuk isn’t doing that for the Sens. Got to go with the guy who can do that.


Matthews never played junior. Pretty sure Marner was the target of these comments.

He wasn't, it was Matthews. They had a play set up for the struggling PP and Nylander didn't follow the script so Matthews let him know about it.
Matthews wasn't born a pro, of course he played minor hockey, just not CHL.

It's ok if you don't believe it.