Value of: Mitch Marner this offseason (2.5 mil retained)

[seanlinden]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. He literally had a Conn Smythe winner on his team in last year's playoffs.

Either you have it or you don't. He's not just going to play harder because Doughty and Kopitar show up in the playoffs.

You cannot "fix" the Leafs by adding Ryan O'Reilly, or Joel Edmundson, or Luke Schenn... when it's abundantly clear that the team will only go as far as Matthews, Marner, and Nylander take them.

The Leafs will go far when these guys decide they want to run through walls all year.... and guys coming in as depth players cannot change a culture. Culture starts at the top.

HOWEVER, if you're Mitch Marner, and you get traded to a team like Carolina, or Vegas, or Tampa, or even LA, where you're not the instant leader, and every other player on that team is playing the right way, you're absolutely going to learn how to fit in and start playng that way.

 

[oceanchild]

Hronek

 

[Lt Dan]

Call me crazy... but the list of teams inquiring about Mitch Marner would be long... very long...

I think most teams realize that something needs to change in Toronto, and he probably can't be "THE GUY"... but if you're a strong team, with a strong identity, like Carolina, or even Boston, and have an opportunity to bring in a premier talent like Marner at age 26; you do not pass up on that opportunity because his confidence is a little shot.

The challenge of course, is that Marner has full control with his NMC... so will get to pick his destination -- somewhere that he's presumably interested in re-signing.

Teams that jump out to me as likely possibilities (which Marner would presumably be interested in).

Los Angeles Kings
Carolina Hurricanes
Dallas Stars
New York Islanders
Washingotn Capitals
St. Louis Blues

No one can afford Marner and he's badly overpaid.
You being up the Kings
They have no cap space and have to sign Byfield and 2 goalies
Are the Leafs going to take PLD back?

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

You cannot "fix" the Leafs by adding Ryan O'Reilly, or Joel Edmundson, or Luke Schenn... when it's abundantly clear that the team will only go as far as Matthews, Marner, and Nylander take them.

The Leafs will go far when these guys decide they want to run through walls all year.... and guys coming in as depth players cannot change a culture. Culture starts at the top.

HOWEVER, if you're Mitch Marner, and you get traded to a team like Carolina, or Vegas, or Tampa, or even LA, where you're not the instant leader, and every other player on that team is playing the right way, you're absolutely going to learn how to fit in and start playng that way.

Agree to disagree. You'll notice the coincidence that the teams you listed won't be involved in any rumours around his trade destination this summer. It doesn't take a decade for a player to figure it out. This must be a trope that only a Leafs fans can believe in.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Matthews is the #1 problem...he scores like Ovie but unlike Ovie has no heart, is soft and has zero leadership qualities...

Detroit will take him no retention but we ask that you take back Fabbri or Matta aa part of any deal

Oh yeah, Ovi's all about heart and leading by example.

 

[colchar]

Leafs fans are hilarious. Marner is the #1 point getter in the playoffs for the Leafs core players and he gets all the shit. Good luck without him.

Matthews has one more point than Marner in these playoffs, and Marner is only two points ahead of Matthews over their careers so stop acting like he is setting the league on fire.

 

[colchar]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. He literally had a Conn Smythe winner on his team in last year's playoffs.

Either you have it or you don't. He's not just going to play harder because Doughty and Kopitar show up in the playoffs.

It might happen. There is that old story about Mario coasting until Gretzky and Messier unloaded on him during the '87 Canada Cup and he was a different player after that. Not saying Marner will change, just that it is possible under the right circumstances.

 

[thaman8765678]

Marner for Huberdeau, give Huby another chance!

Leafs fans will be begging for Marner back by November.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

It might happen. There is that old story about Mario coasting until Gretzky and Messier unloaded on him during the '87 Canada Cup and he was a different player after that. Not saying Marner will change, just that it is possible under the right circumstances.

When Mario was 22 years old? Before he played a playoff game?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I could see a team like Seattle being a really good fit for Marner, someone who is moderately competitive but out of the spotlight and could probably use an extra injection of offense (and should have cap space to make it work). Maybe even a rebuilding team like Chicago or Anaheim. Regardless, I think it makes more sense to move him at the draft, assuming they'd be trading him with some sort of extension agreement in place.

I would think Toronto would want a dman back or a younger cost controlled NHL player with upside. They still want to be competitive.

Here are some ideas, value is probably way off:


Marner @8.4M
for
D Adam Larsson (4M)
F Jagger Firkus
OR
F Jordan Eberle (4.8M)
D Ryker Evans
2024 2nd (42nd overall)


Marner (10.9M)
2024 1st (~23rd overall)
for
F Trevor Zegras (5.8M)
D Rodwin Dionicio
2024 3rd (67th overall)


Marner (10.9M)
for
D Connor Murphy (4.4M)
F Oliver Moore
2024 2nd (33rd overall)

 

[dirtydanglez]

Marner for Huberdeau, give Huby another chance!

Leafs fans will be begging for Marner back by November.

and cursing him by april

 

[waitin425]

Well there's this guy in Pittsburgh who would. He might even think that Bitchy Mitchy and Sid would make the greatest pairing ever.

I haven't paid any attention to the Pens, do they have cap space and the assets needed in a trade?

Yager and some future picks is about all they have. The biggest asset available from any team that trades for him is providing Cap space. Not a cap dump in traditional sense...but I bet losing Marner at 11 and adding a 5 mil and 6 mil player via UFA would improve the Leafs

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yager and some future picks is about all they have. The biggest asset available from any team that trades for him is providing Cap space. Not a cap dump in traditional sense...but I bet losing Marner at 11 and adding a 5 mil and 6 mil player via UFA would improve the Leafs

The Leafs need to improve the D and goaltending. Stop searching for more and more offense and get some actual D and goalies who can turn the needle. Too much pressure is being put on the star forwards and when they fail because the playoffs is about D and goaltending and timely scoring, the blame game starts over and over again.

Anderson should have stayed on a team friendly deal. The Canes are very happy with him as a contender but then the Leafs will say Anderson chokes too much in big games. Well, there has been a hell of a lot of choking still happening after Anderson was let go. Stop blaming players and start blaming the roster flaws that have ripple effects to the star players.

8 years to improve the D and goaltending (since the Matthews draft) . Brutal! Dubas was given too much chance over and over again. Most important time in franchise history and they gave the job to a rookie GM learning on the job.

 

[TS Quint]

Matthews has one more point than Marner in these playoffs, and Marner is only two points ahead of Matthews over their careers so stop acting like he is setting the league on fire.

More is more.

Dont worry, no one has mistaken any of the Leafs big contracts for setting the world on fire in the playoffs ever.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

TO NASHVILLE: MARNER
TO TORONTO: SAROS AND CARRIER

 

[TS Quint]

The Leafs need to improve the D and goaltending. Stop searching for more and more offense and get some actual D and goalies who can turn the needle. Too much pressure is being put on the star forwards and when they fail because the playoffs is about D and goaltending and timely scoring, the blame game starts over and over again.

Anderson should have stayed on a team friendly deal. The Canes are very happy with him as a contender but then the Leafs will say Anderson chokes too much in big games. Well, there has been a hell of a lot of choking still happening after Anderson was let go. Stop blaming players and start blaming the roster flaws that have ripple effects to the star players.

8 years to improve the D and goaltending (since the Matthews draft) . Brutal! Dubas was given too much chance over and over again. Most important time in franchise history and they gave the job to a rookie GM learning on the job.

I agree with what you are saying about team construction. But at the end of the day when players and management agree to those contracts they are also agreeing that they need to lead the team to success.

You can't be relying on a low dollar goaltender or whatever you have left to scrape together a defense. And that's has actually been pretty good (outside Samsonov). They need Marner, Matthews, Nylander and Tavares to create more Bobby McMahon's. Those guys have rarely done that in their careers. Their offense is what dries up when they need it.

 

[TS Quint]

It might happen. There is that old story about Mario coasting until Gretzky and Messier unloaded on him during the '87 Canada Cup and he was a different player after that. Not saying Marner will change, just that it is possible under the right circumstances.

I agree with the sentiment. I was a bad look when Keefe had the audacity to call out his best players not being their best players in the media. Mitch and the boys had a talk with him about that and poor Keefe had to go tail between his legs to a podium to apologize. How dare a coach say what the rest of the hockey world already knew.

But no complaints when Keefe says their role players need to be better. None of the players with letters on their jerseys and big money contracts stand up for them. They are selfish and entitled.

They need a coach and management team they can respect. A Tortorella type that treats everyone the same, who the GM and especially president will stand behind and put winning first.

 

[BHawk21]

Marner for Jones

It makes a some sense for both teams as a start to a deal.

Toronto wants to win now with Matthews Nylander and Reilly getting older. They have a giant need on the right side of their D.

 

[seanlinden]

Agree to disagree. You'll notice the coincidence that the teams you listed won't be involved in any rumours around his trade destination this summer. It doesn't take a decade for a player to figure it out. This must be a trope that only a Leafs fans can believe in.

For some / many players, it's not about "time" to figure out how to play / win in the playoffs... it's about being put into a different environment... one where every other guy goes around you goes to battle every night, to change hte way a specific player plays.

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

So, was talking to a relative about this and they had a great idea:

Chicago

They have the cap room to cover his contract easily.
Playing on Bedards wing might go a long way in convincing him to waive his NMC to go there.

The question is what can Chicago offer back?

 

[Lt Dan]

If LA hadn't fumbled the bag on the PLD trade, I could easily see him thriving there. Doughty and Kopitar can show him what it means to be a playoff performer and he would be far away from the media spotlight in Toronto.

Believe me, Kings fans all hate the trade, except one, and we all all hoping for The Purge in the front office

 

[FiveTacos]

You can't be relying on a low dollar goaltender or whatever you have left to scrape together a defense. And that's has actually been pretty good (outside Samsonov). They need Marner, Matthews, Nylander and Tavares to create more Bobby McMahon's. Those guys have rarely done that in their careers. Their offense is what dries up when they need it.

Yes the offense dries up, but a lot of offense in the playoffs flows from the blueline. Whether it's smoothly transitioning with passes/joining the rush, or offering good support in the offensive zone, or generating turnovers in the neutral zone. You don't need a bunch of Makars, but you gotta get more than they've gotten.

Good playoff opponents are so good and committed at defending over 200ft that it's tough sledding for forwards to generate all the offense alone.

If I'm a star forward, I'd much rather play with average linemates and a stellar D, than stellar linemates with a pedestrian D. The latter is a classic formula for teams that have flamed out in the postseason.

 

[TS Quint]

Yes the offense dries up, but a lot of offense in the playoffs flows from the blueline. Whether it's smoothly transitioning with passes/joining the rush, or offering good support in the offensive zone, or generating turnovers in the neutral zone. You don't need a bunch of Makars, but you gotta get more than they've gotten.

Good playoff opponents are so good and committed at defending over 200ft that it's tough sledding for forwards to generate all the offense alone.

If I'm a star forward, I'd much rather play with average linemates and a stellar D, than stellar linemates with a pedestrian D. The latter is a classic formula for teams that have flamed out in the postseason.

Just look at the save % of the goalies they play. Look at their PP. it's a total choke job. You pay those guys that kind of money there are no excuses for what you don't have.

 

[FiveTacos]

Just look at the save % of the goalies they play. Look at their PP. it's a total choke job. You pay those guys that kind of money there are no excuses for what you don't have.

Last I checked blueliners are able to contribute in the offensive zone too, especially on the PP. On the best teams they're often essential in fact.

Of course their big guns deserve criticism and rightfully can be called out. But the roster construction certainly isn't ideal to maximize what they have up front.

 

[TS Quint]

Last I checked blueliners are able to contribute in the offensive zone too, especially on the PP. On the best teams they're often essential in fact.

Of course their big guns deserve criticism and rightfully can be called out. But the roster construction certainly isn't ideal to maximize what they have up front.

Seemed just fine in the regular season.