Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[ToneDog]

Reinhart is literally what all Leafs fans thought MM will become.
Selke level winger, high IQ, doesn’t have a great shot but can still score, not soft or weak, not the fastest player but effective.


Funny how even 3 yrs or more ago, if someone here propose MM for Reinhart straight up, every here will say Leafs will just say NO or it must be Reinhart plus but over the past two years, it becomes there is no way Panthers will take this deal.

If memory serves, his 4 goals last night were more than Marner has ever scored in a full playoff year. Let that sink in.

He has also scored 5 of the 6 goals the Panthers have scored in their two SC clinching games. But hey, Marner had a great time on the lake yesterday,

 

[HamiltonNHL]

4 goals last night were more than Marner has ever scored in a full playoff year.

He doesn't score much. I wonder if it's Matthews more than anything. Matthews NEVER drives play. Matthews can barely carry the puck. He certainly couldn't do it this ENTIRE YEAR as he injured himself in the pre-season. The both rely on open ice which doesn't exist in the playoffs.

The two don't work regardless. So Marner has to go.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sorry I didn’t go through the whole thread, what do you believe he has earned?

You're into the 14m range for a player of Marner's caliber.

Also, what abuses has he suffered as a player, realistically? Is this internet related stuff, being asked to waive, etc? Curious.

Since being drafted, the list of unusual to unprecedented things that Marner has had to put up with includes but is not limited to:
-Being refused the ELC bonuses that prospects of his caliber get, only for that stance to be immediately abandoned to give them to Matthews
-Being sent back down to the OHL for tanking reasons, after putting up the 10th best regular season P/GP and 3rd best playoff P/GP (behind only McDavid And Lindros) for an U18 player in OHL history
-The Babcock fiasco, and his attempt to alienate Marner and pit him against his teammates
-Having his ELC production suppressed by Babcock's abnormal usage, despite performing as one of the best young players in modern history
-Vilified by fans for signing a fair contract
-Vilified by media for signing a fair contract
-Fans irrationally scapegoating him for the team's playoff disappointments, despite being one of the best playoff performers on the team
-Media irrationally scapegoating him for the team's playoff disappointments, despite being one of the best playoff performers on the team
-A constant stream of general hate and people saying the most vile stuff about and to him, both online and in the real world
-Being robbed at gunpoint
-Getting death threats

And after all the loyalty and commitment to the city and team despite this, Treliving didn't seem to take re-signing him last offseason seriously. And then instead of being patient, standing behind Marner, and shutting down distractions heading into the playoffs, Treliving created a circus at the deadline to shift public pressure onto Marner to either re-sign in-season (knowing that Marner doesn't do that) or waive his trade protection (in-season, with a baby due any day, to go somewhere that Marner hadn't even been consulted about).

And we wonder why he's reconsidered his desire to stay.

 

[ToneDog]

He doesn't score much. I wonder if it's Matthews more than anything. Matthews NEVER drives play. Matthews can barely carry the puck. He certainly couldn't do it this ENTIRE YEAR as he injured himself in the pre-season. The both rely on open ice which doesn't exist in the playoffs.

The two don't work regardless. So Marner has to go.

When you rarely go to the front of the net and play rover around the half wall and blueline, you are not scoring many goals in the playoffs.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Any GM that pays Marner 10.9 is a loser.

comedy.

Toronto is a loser .org

 

[Caesium]

You're into the 14m range for a player of Marner's caliber.

Since being drafted, the list of unusual to unprecedented things that Marner has had to put up with includes but is not limited to:
-Being refused the ELC bonuses that prospects of his caliber get, only for that stance to be immediately abandoned to give them to Matthews
-Being sent back down to the OHL for tanking reasons, after putting up the 10th best regular season P/GP and 3rd best playoff P/GP (behind only McDavid And Lindros) for an U18 player in OHL history
-The Babcock fiasco, and his attempt to alienate Marner and pit him against his teammates
-Having his ELC production suppressed by Babcock's abnormal usage, despite performing as one of the best young players in modern history
-Vilified by fans for signing a fair contract
-Vilified by media for signing a fair contract
-Fans irrationally scapegoating him for the team's playoff disappointments, despite being one of the best playoff performers on the team
-Media irrationally scapegoating him for the team's playoff disappointments, despite being one of the best playoff performers on the team
-A constant stream of general hate and people saying the most vile stuff about and to him, both online and in the real world
-Being robbed at gunpoint
-Getting death threats

And after all the loyalty and commitment to the city and team despite this, Treliving didn't seem to take re-signing him last offseason seriously. And then instead of being patient, standing behind Marner, and shutting down distractions heading into the playoffs, Treliving created a circus at the deadline to shift public pressure onto Marner to either re-sign in-season (knowing that Marner doesn't do that) or waive his trade protection (in-season, with a baby due any day, to go somewhere that Marner hadn't even been consulted about).

And we wonder why he's reconsidered his desire to stay.

You missed having his properties vandalized on three different occasions. Golf balls, Montreal merch, and trash thrown all over his lawn. Also death threats against his family after game 7 this year.

 

[PromisedLand]

hey mitch

 

[Trapper]

When you rarely go to the front of the net and play rover around the half wall and blueline, you are not scoring many goals in the playoffs.

This team may very well be on the decline as people desperately try to believe we will somehow build Florida around Matthews and Nylander. Good on them if they can. I think we will spend the next 3 years with our fingers in the dam until there are too many cracks.

 

[Tak7]

You're into the 14m range for a player of Marner's caliber.

Since being drafted, the list of unusual to unprecedented things that Marner has had to put up with includes but is not limited to:
-Being refused the ELC bonuses that prospects of his caliber get, only for that stance to be immediately abandoned to give them to Matthews
-Being sent back down to the OHL for tanking reasons, after putting up the 10th best regular season P/GP and 3rd best playoff P/GP (behind only McDavid And Lindros) for an U18 player in OHL history
-The Babcock fiasco, and his attempt to alienate Marner and pit him against his teammates
-Having his ELC production suppressed by Babcock's abnormal usage, despite performing as one of the best young players in modern history
-Vilified by fans for signing a fair contract
-Vilified by media for signing a fair contract
-Fans irrationally scapegoating him for the team's playoff disappointments, despite being one of the best playoff performers on the team
-Media irrationally scapegoating him for the team's playoff disappointments, despite being one of the best playoff performers on the team
-A constant stream of general hate and people saying the most vile stuff about and to him, both online and in the real world
-Being robbed at gunpoint
-Getting death threats

And after all the loyalty and commitment to the city and team despite this, Treliving didn't seem to take re-signing him last offseason seriously. And then instead of being patient, standing behind Marner, and shutting down distractions heading into the playoffs, Treliving created a circus at the deadline to shift public pressure onto Marner to either re-sign in-season (knowing that Marner doesn't do that) or waive his trade protection (in-season, with a baby due any day, to go somewhere that Marner hadn't even been consulted about).

And we wonder why he's reconsidered his desire to stay.

Two sides to every coin, etc. Let's take the emotion out of it and look at it rationally:

• Knowing they'd be bad, protected Marner by sending him back to London for D+1 - hard to argue he, and the team, didn't benefit immensely from it.
• Sided with the player during the Babcock situation. Fired Babcock. Hired a player's coach in Keefe.
• Publicly backed the player at every possibility.
• Publicly walked back anything perceived as the slightest form of criticism of the player
• Recruited John Tavares by offering him the chance to play alongside Marner, but then moved Marner back with Matthews once Marner requested it after year 1 of Tavares (where JT scored a career high 47 goals)
• Watched him hold out for a massive above market value deal that prioritized all of Mitch's wants, and none of the team's needs.
• Gave Marner the money he wanted on his 2019 deal.
• Gave Marner the term he wanted on his 2019 deal.
• Gave Marner the full trade protection he wanted on his 2019 deal.
• Shrugged off the contentious nature of the negotiations in 2019 by backing the player publicly.
• Refused to trade him in 2021, 2022, or 2023, and undercutting the trade protection that had yet to kick in
• Hired a new coach in 2024, whose first official task was to not meet with the captain, but Mitch Marner.
• Refused to go to him asking for him to waive the trade protection despite it clearly not working out here.
• Offered him 8x $13.5
• Only approached him about waiving for Rantanen after it became apparent a new deal couldn't be reached, and that his camp refused to engage all season.
• When the player got upset that the team went public with the Rantanen trade, the GM came out less than 24 hours later and, again, publicly supported the player.
• Have refused to publicly make him a scapegoat despite the constant failings.
• Have refused to publicly single him out despite him being the worst of the core 4 players late in series (0 goals in 18 playoff game 5/6/7s combined).

I have no issue with Marner choosing to leave. Whether he wants to leave for more money, or a better chance to win, or because he simply doesn't like the pressure or criticism of Toronto? Fair play to him. He's earned that right.

But can we please stop with this ridiculous pretending that this guy is being driven out of town? They wanted resign him all year, and there's still a number of fans, such as yourself, who put player before team despite the player not doing anything to warrant it.

The organization has given him absolutely everything he has asked for, and then some. He's repaid them by failing to perform on the ice, and by acting entitled & defensive off of it.

Get a grip.

 

[Stephen]

If memory serves, his 4 goals last night were more than Marner has ever scored in a full playoff year. Let that sink in.

He has also scored 5 of the 6 goals the Panthers have scored in their two SC clinching games. But hey, Marner had a great time on the lake yesterday,

His 11 goals this playoffs is also 2 fewer than Marner’s career total.

He has as many Stanley Cups as Marner has series wins.

You could go on and on.

 

[Mess]

If memory serves, his 4 goals last night were more than Marner has ever scored in a full playoff year. Let that sink in.

He has also scored 5 of the 6 goals the Panthers have scored in their two SC clinching games. But hey, Marner had a great time on the lake yesterday,

Sam Reinhart scored 7 goals in the Stanley Cup finals.

Mitch Marner scored 8 goals total over the course of his entire 6 year $10.9 mil contract.

How are the Leafs expected to compete dragging boat anchors like this along?

Easy to see why Rienhart and not Marner was named to Team Canada Olympic roster early.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Mitch Marner scored 8 goals total over the course of his entire 6 year $10.9 mil contract.

never lived up to his current deal.

compare Marner to:

 

[Peasy]

You're into the 14m range for a player of Marner's caliber.

Since being drafted, the list of unusual to unprecedented things that Marner has had to put up with includes but is not limited to:
-Being refused the ELC bonuses that prospects of his caliber get, only for that stance to be immediately abandoned to give them to Matthews
-Being sent back down to the OHL for tanking reasons, after putting up the 10th best regular season P/GP and 3rd best playoff P/GP (behind only McDavid And Lindros) for an U18 player in OHL history
-The Babcock fiasco, and his attempt to alienate Marner and pit him against his teammates
-Having his ELC production suppressed by Babcock's abnormal usage, despite performing as one of the best young players in modern history
-Vilified by fans for signing a fair contract
-Vilified by media for signing a fair contract
-Fans irrationally scapegoating him for the team's playoff disappointments, despite being one of the best playoff performers on the team
-Media irrationally scapegoating him for the team's playoff disappointments, despite being one of the best playoff performers on the team
-A constant stream of general hate and people saying the most vile stuff about and to him, both online and in the real world
-Being robbed at gunpoint
-Getting death threats

And after all the loyalty and commitment to the city and team despite this, Treliving didn't seem to take re-signing him last offseason seriously. And then instead of being patient, standing behind Marner, and shutting down distractions heading into the playoffs, Treliving created a circus at the deadline to shift public pressure onto Marner to either re-sign in-season (knowing that Marner doesn't do that) or waive his trade protection (in-season, with a baby due any day, to go somewhere that Marner hadn't even been consulted about).

And we wonder why he's reconsidered his desire to stay.

Unprecedented that a 4th overall gets sent back to junior in their D+1

Thanks for the morning laugh dekes.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It wasn't the first time they explored the idea of trading him.

They never actually did that. That would involve working with Marner at a proper time behind closed doors to find a destination that would work. Not creating a public spectacle and dropping another team's last minute trade proposal on him at the deadline that you know he'd never accept (especially with a baby incoming).

And what consequences? Marner leaving? The plan was already in motion.

The consequence is losing one of the best players in the league and franchise history, by alienating and disrespecting the person they were still trying to re-sign, who had initially wanted to stay.

When you're about to make 13M-14M, there shouldn't be any excuses for lack of production.

Production is impacted by external factors and context, regardless of how much you're paid. That's just hockey.

You're getting paid to overcome all that and produce, which Marner has failed to do nearly every playoffs.

You're paid for your overall impact, which Marner consistently brings at a high level. Marner is also the best playoff producer on the team since he joined the Leafs.

And he was amazing defensively when he did a no look backhand pass up the middle and then failed to cover his guy in a key moment in game 5.

Cherry picking a specific moment that you then misrepresent doesn't change how good somebody is defensively.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Marner is also the best playoff producer on the team since he joined the Leafs.

There's no way dude. Come on

 

[tuckerintensity]

Let's take the emotion out of it and look at it rationally

Says let's look at this rationally and without emotion, proceeds to look at this only through an emotionally charged lens and no sense of rationality. Five stars.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If memory serves, his 4 goals last night were more than Marner has ever scored in a full playoff year. Let that sink in.

He has also scored 5 of the 6 goals the Panthers have scored in their two SC clinching games. But hey, Marner had a great time on the lake yesterday,

Your memory is fine. Marner has only scored 3 goals in a playoff year. Though he has scored less than Marner overall 63 in 70 playoff games for Marner while Sam has scored 56 in 76 games. Excellent player though.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

-Vilified by fans for signing a fair contract

Huge overpay.
Never earned.

would never have signed it.

 

[Mess]

You could go on and on.

Marner has scored a total of 13 playoff goals over 9 year and 11 playoff series. Mitch is basically good for approx. 1 goal every series on average.

Yesterday when Reinhart scored to open the game scoring, they mentioned that was Panther's 90th goal of the playoffs in their 23 playoff game. Florida finished with 94 goals total.

I tried to picture what a Leafs playoff roster would need to look like to score 90 playoff goals in just over what would be a 1/4 of an NHL season (23 games) let alone playoff games.

The Leafs had scored 36 goals after 2 rounds in the 2024-25 playoffs, That would mean they would have needed to score 58 goals in rounds #3 and #4 to match Florida.

The vision certainly didn't include Marner even at $11 mil cap never mind re-signed $14 mil. Florida's secret is in its depth where they have players making $4-$7 mil scoring double digit goals in the playoffs.

 

[Tak7]

Says let's look at this rationally and without emotion, proceeds to look at this only through an emotionally charged lens and no sense of rationality. Five stars.

Feel free to highlight any points you feel weren't grounded in facts or logic, and I'll happily respond to them.

 

[Statsman1]

I remember watching some close-out games where Marner was blocking shots and killing himself....and then I remember watching games where he was frustratingly invisible, or only being noticed because of ghastly mistakes. He wasn't the only playoff dud on this team.

As a player, Marner strikes me as an Adam Oates-type of guy. Find him the right trigger man and Marner will get his 100 points every year, and those are the players you WANT, not the players you let go. His NMC got him to free agency, which was by design.

Marner leaving is up to him, he earned the right to go, and it hurts a bit.

Marner leaving for free just hurts a bit more.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner leaving for free just hurts a bit more.

Shanahan, Dubas special.
Total losers.

 

[Stephen]

I remember watching some close-out games where Marner was blocking shots and killing himself....and then I remember watching games where he was frustratingly invisible, or only being noticed because of ghastly mistakes. He wasn't the only playoff dud on this team.

As a player, Marner strikes me as an Adam Oates-type of guy. Find him the right trigger man and Marner will get his 100 points every year, and those are the players you WANT, not the players you let go. His NMC got him to free agency, which was by design.

Marner leaving is up to him, he earned the right to go, and it hurts a bit.

Marner leaving for free just hurts a bit more.

I think Game 6 FLA and the 4 Nations finals were instructive in what Marner can do in a big game. Find a small area exploit play on a turnover, put a puck on the tape of someone heading north with purpose and job well done.

Problem with that is it’s a sidekick job and he wants 40% more than a multiple cup winning warhorse like Barkov.

If little buddy wasn’t intent on squeezing every penny like he’s trying to invent copper wiring he would be a lot more comfortable.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Where is my boy @Gary Nylund ? We can use some more passion fuel for this one. We're at the finish line let's keep the momentum

 

[Dekes For Days]

How are you still this obsessed with regular season numbers, and continue to just completely ignore playoff numbers and results?

I don't ignore playoff performance. I just also don't ignore the other 99% of relevant information in order to focus exclusively on one specific stat without context in the tiny sample of games where that one stat is most skewed by external factors and the vastly different situations players experience, like you do to make claims opposite of what the other 99% of information clearly shows.

Unprecedented that a 4th overall gets sent back to junior in their D+1

It's not unprecedented for a 4th overall to be sent back, but it's pretty unusual for a 4th overall in one of the best drafts of a generation that already put up 2+ P/GP in both the regular season and playoffs to be sent back.