Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[Mess]

What If ?

If Marner were a real team player and wanted to help the Leafs win a Cup, then when asked to waive his NMC for Rantanen he could have accepted.

Then the Leafs would have had Mikko and re-signed him for their playoff run while Marner would have played out this years playoffs in Carolina,

Then Mitch could have come back to Toronto as a UFA hero and re-signed with Toronto, while the Leafs let JT walk and recaptured his $11 mil instead of $10,9 from Marner.

Then Leafs could have had BOTH Rantanen and Marner in next year's line-up and walked away from Tavares instead,

Leafs top 4 wingers Nylander, Knies, Marner and Rantanen.

 

[ToneDog]

I get what you’re saying but I don’t think this is totally true. Bennett’s next contract is going to 100% be based on his playoff games. Otherwise he’d only make a 50 point player’s money. It’s curious that it doesn’t work the other way around (great season production and mediocre playoff production doesn’t seem to reduce player contract asks).

Technically they are being paid for 82 regular season games. Clearly if you produce in the playoffs you will get more but if you suck, it pretty much is ignored in contract negotiations. Leafs have seen enough of Marner no shows in big games to know that they need to go in a different direction while they still have aspirations of winning the SC. He will be more attractive to teams trying to sell tickets, jerseys and trying to make the playoffs. He better make sure he signs with a team that has players who can make him succeed or his production will drop like Huberdeau and Gaudreau (RIP) after they moved.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Kind of surreal to see him gone

 

[Mess]

Ofcourse the Leafs let him go, they could have given him 14/15 if they wanted him to stay. If Mitch signs long term elsewhere for 12 or less I’d agree Mitch walked away. I think Tre would have offered 12, I wouldn’t but Leafs are Leafs.

Treliving knows what he is doing and $12 would be the max for Marner based on internal Salary structure.

He would not pay Marner more then his captain Matthews (who has Hart, Art Ross, Lindsey, multiple Rocket) making $13.25 mil ..

Matthews @ $13.25 mil & Marner @ $12 mil & Nylander @$11.5 mil with JT moving on.

Rantanen signed for 8 X $12 mil (which BT also would have offered) and likely a similar offer Marner.

Anything over $12 makes No Sense for Leafs to pay Marner. IMO

 

[Superstar]

Marchand with 2 goals tonight puts him at 10 in 22 games, not only is this obviously way more than Mitch ever produced in his best playoffs (3 goals), the pace in terms of gpg is .46 and this is nearly 3x as much as Mitch's career playoff gpg.

Should a 37 year old SMALLER (likely slower) completely CLOWN Mitch's totals in Toronto? The answer is obviously not, but it goes to show you the sort of soft/heartless player Mitch was/is.

(I didn't make the comparison with 40 year old Perry because this would be unfair to Mitch as he's taller and weighs more, we need to have the lowest possible standards for Mitch, but it goes to show you how it was never his "small size" but lack of other "intangibles")

"Congrats on tripling my career playoff goal best at nearly 40 years old Brad"

You wonder how much Marner will be asking as a UFA at age 37...$12 million per? lol

 

[Trapper]

try for what
this team isa joke just move on

 

[DragoGrizzly]

Kind of surreal to see him gone

I completely feel like this too. He had everything at the beginning to be one of the most loved Leafs ever, drafted hometown kid, element of magic and fun to his game like very few players have. Racking up Maple Leaf franchise records. And to have him leave like this with so little team success, it really is surreal.

 

[daveleaf]

The current Panthers is a great fit for any players bc they have a system/culture in place, players who know their roles….

MM would be a great fit except for his cap as I doubt Zito is willing to pay even 10.893mil for him. As he probably believe he can get someone who can fit his team better with 8-9mil.

I don’t think MM is a fit for the Panthers. Every panther forward has bite, they all hit, they all play on the edge. Why do I keep on feeling he is either headed to Ana or Vegas, if he does sign in Tor it would be for a ton of money.

 

[daveleaf]

If he has agreed to go to July 1 or made it known that’s his decision. They should let him come up with a number and do the sign and trade.

All the spin doesn’t matter. The camp is trying to make the leafs look like the bad guy.


If it is true.
He knew he didn’t want to stay. He could have picked a team last year. He refused all negotiations. He refused all trades. He will be hated here.

I hope if he does sign elsewhere he is hated

 

[daveleaf]

Looks like Toronto is not the only city hockey town with a few nutbars. Here's hoping Mitch can find a city that has none or doesn't know he exists.

Chloe Skinner, the wife of Edmonton Oilers goalie Stuart Skinner, revealed a serious downfall that comes with being in the spotlight so often. The mother of two made an appearance on the Breaking the Ice podcast, where she revealed that she has gotten death threats from certain individuals.

“We have a very passionate fan base, and the people here live and breathe for the Oilers,” Chloe said. “It’s a tale as old as time, where the goalie is the punching bag a bit. This year definitely got intense. There was times where security had to be involved. I specifically have DMs filled with death threats towards the kids, towards myself, from anonymous accounts [with] people hiding behind their screens.

They don’t seem to complain when the cheque gets deposited into the account. STFU

 

[Mess]

try for what
this team isa joke just move on

If Leafs wanted to trade Marner's rights or work on a potential sign and trade to give the 8th year then Darren Ferris would have to pick up the phone.

Marner's agent has been told there is no Leafs contract offer coming.

Since Marner is determined to test free agency the trading of rights or 8th year is of little interest to pick up the phone.

 

[MSZ]

interesting.....

 

[Peasy]

Absolutely is a downgrade.

The chances weren't slim. The chance was zero. It was a stupid panic move, and Treliving should have known that the only thing it was ever going to accomplish was alienating the player he actually wanted.

Exploring actual trade options would have been a bad but better alternative to what we opted for instead. Team can do whatever they want, but if they do something stupid, don't be surprised when there's consequences.

There is no evidence that he was planning to leave before then, and the season wasn't done. It created a circus for the team, right before the playoffs.

Which of the 50 different easily searchable times that I've done this would you like me to link to? Why would you suddenly accept the truth the 51st time? Marner produces better overall, against goalies, and in each individual game state, while taking on tougher matchups and situations. Marner is also simultaneously better defensively, and an elite PKer, while Rantanen doesn't PK at all. Rantanen thrives on empty net points, all-offense deployment/game state distribution, and the public's poor understanding of playoff production and the additional context necessary to compare across teams.

How are you still this obsessed with regular season numbers, and continue to just completely ignore playoff numbers and results?

You'd probably be happier if they won the presidents trophy over the cup.

 

[daveleaf]

Agreed - Its the final year of his contract. Its not like it was year 2 of an 8 year contract.

Leafs reportedly gave him their best offer

Marner didnt like the Leafs best offer and reportedly wouldn't negotiate.

.... then why not allow the team to move-on?

Its obvious...because he wants to do the same thing he did last contract. Make the leafs as uncomfortable as possible to get the very best deal he possibly can get.

- His and his wife families are from T.O
- he has his charity here that employs his entire family
- he has a restaurant here he started with O'Leary
- he has endorsement deals here, he wont get elsewhere
- the 8th year he can only get here
- 13.5 million i assume only a few teams will offer.
- he loses his legacy in Toronto, jersey hanging, possible statue...etc
- He is insulated by Matthews and Nylander here.

Gonna be hard to find better than he was offered here!

Let him walk Brad!!!

Seems like he is a lot of drama.

 

[Stephen]

If Leafs wanted to trade Marner's rights or work on a potential sign and trade to give the 8th year then Darren Ferris would have to pick up the phone.

Marner's agent has been told there is no Leafs contract offer coming.

Since Marner is determined to test free agency the trading of rights or 8th year is of little interest to pick up the phone.

I think the best course of action is to just let the clock run out on Marner and don't worry too much about re-couping a pick here and there to facilitate the rights and the 8th year.

Lets's say Marner is looking for $120 million over 8 years for a $15 million AAV from some lucky team. Shrinking those dollars to 7 years increases the cap hit to $17.1 million. That's a cap hit delta of $2.1 million for a team presumably hoping to win and I think there's value in hurting their cap, putting pressure on them to have to throw a good player overboard. Think about the value of that 8th year in sign and trade. 8 years of cap relief at $2.1 million has got to be worth a lot. Are we going to be fairly compensated for it? I don't think so.

On the other hand, if the other team is committed to $15 million over 7 years, that takes $15 million out of Marner's pocket. I don't see a proposition value in getting a mid round pick to ameliorate Marner's financial loss here.

 

[daveleaf]

I think the best course of action is to just let the clock run out on Marner and don't worry too much about re-couping a pick here and there to facilitate the rights and the 8th year.

Lets's say Marner is looking for $120 million over 8 years for a $15 million AAV from some lucky team. Shrinking those dollars to 7 years increases the cap hit to $17.1 million. That's a cap hit delta of $2.1 million for a team presumably hoping to win and I think there's value in hurting their cap, putting pressure on them to have to throw a good player overboard. Think about the value of that 8th year in sign and trade. 8 years of cap relief at $2.1 million has got to be worth a lot. Are we going to be fairly compensated for it? I don't think so.

On the other hand, if the other team is committed to $15 million over 7 years, that takes $15 million out of Marner's pocket. I don't see a proposition value in getting a mid round pick to ameliorate Marner's financial loss here.

Usually there would be something significant coming back but I do agree with you. Leafs won’t be doing a sign and trade unless a first round pick, top prospect and a salary coming back.

 

[daveleaf]

They would be roasted here for saying something like that.

Because they have accomplished nothing. If they were in the finals two years in a row they would be getting some rope.

 

[Stephen]

How are you still this obsessed with regular season numbers, and continue to just completely ignore playoff numbers and results?

Mikko Rantanen is inferior to Mitch Marner because he's played with Cale Makar and sometimes Nathan Mackinnon. That's the piece that invalidates all of Rantanen's achievements up to this point, including:

1) 1x Stanley Cup.
2) 1x 40 goal season
3) 1x 50 goal season
4) 2x 100 point seasons.
5) Outscoring Marner 123 to 63 points in the playoffs.
6) Having a 1.22 points per game average in the playoffs*

*Irony of all ironies, Rantanen is separated from Mackinnon and Makar, proceeds to beat his former team head to head with back to back hat tricks in game 6 and 7 of the first round, and posts a career standard 1.22 points per game ratio in the playoffs for a brand new team. It's almost like he's the same productive player without Makar and Mackinnon or something.

 

[Stephen]

Usually there would be something significant coming back but I do agree with you. Leafs won’t be doing a sign and trade unless a first round pick, top prospect and a salary coming back.

The value is simply too great on this size of contract to do anyone favors. Especially an adversarial party in Marner, and especially if this is an Eastern/Atlantic rival.

 

[JKG33]

Kind of surreal to see him gone

Not really. I remember that draft, I never wanted Marner. He just looked like a charmain ultrasoft pissbaby. Call it physiognomy or vibes or whatever. I thought he'd top out at a 60-70 point guy, which tbf he outproduced my expectations.. in the regular season. But come playoffs he's been exactly who I thought he'd be. Soft, disappearing, and overpaid.

I suppose I also find it surreal but for what is likely a very different reason. This organization has been plagued with a lot of cancer these last 9 years. And now we're finally close to removing it all. I genuinely thought the day Keefe, Dubas, Shanahan, and Marner would be gone was still another 5 years away. Just gotta get rid of Matthews and this shitbag era will be essentially over

 

[TMLAM34]

Just over 2 more weeks until we can stop with this Marner talk finally!

 

[ToneDog]

View attachment 1050521

LOL. I think you just posted Mitch's welcome back video.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don’t think MM is a fit for the Panthers. Every panther forward has bite, they all hit, they all play on the edge. Why do I keep on feeling he is either headed to Ana or Vegas, if he does sign in Tor it would be for a ton of money.

That’s the culture of Panthers and that’s why I said whoever gets in that lineup will end up playing that way.

 

[ACC1224]

Not sure you understand the difference between the word "fact" and an "opinion".

Many don’t.

 

[notDatsyuk]

What is fair market value?

Always the question. Comparables of Rantanen and Nylander would suggest no more than $12, and if he was offered $13 or more and didn't take it, he should be encouraged to seek employment elsewhere.