Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[PromisedLand]

I think the frustrating part for me regarding Tre, Shanny and ownership is if they were not confident that they could not get some sort of return back for Marner in the offseason, then you shouldn't be trading 2 first round picks and 2 near NHL ready prospects at the trade deadline when the prices are at a PEAK and teams are overpaying. Those assets could have atleast been used intelligently to take advantage of other team's cap issues and bring in more well rounded players to replace Marner and add more depth to this team.

Instead we have Marner walking for nothing, barely any assets with minimum picks and a bottom of the league prospect pool, along with a relatively weak UFA class to improve our roster.

Absolute idiocy by the individuals managing this organization.

Primary blame Dubas for signing Marner to that ridiculous contract and having NMC kick in 2 years before him being a UFA

Secondry blame Shanahan for allowing this BS to happen

Year Treliving was hired he had one month to trade marner before the NMC kicked in. Treliving did try to move marner this season and before the season started and vegas said no so its not like he didn't try but it was too late of course. Treliving was facing the consequences of the disgusting crap that dubas did

 

[ToneDog]

Have a good laugh at this stat.

What is funnier is that he thinks he is worth $14m. The GM that signs his to a ridiculous amount of money will be looking for work sooner than later.

Speaking of Bennett, how's that crow tasting Zeke? "Bennett is bad at hockey". LOL

 

[centipede2233]

I think what Tre is saying is we have too many players like other players. For all of them, when it comes down to clutch time, Rielly, Mitch, JT, Willie, Matty, the guys who should matter in big games disappear. Guys like Marchand, Bennet might have less skill and talent but tend to relish big games. So with the core on our teams we get the high high's and the low low's but with other players they get the mediums all the time, consistency is key.

I've been saying for a while now, a team is a sum of it's parts, we've been far too much focused on individual skill. We have 3 players better than any one player on the Panthers, the Oil have two players better than any one player on the Panthers but the Panthers play as one cohesive unit, they come in waves and everyone regardless if you score or not, you have a role and you are expected to execute that role better than the guy on the other side of the ice.

The Panthers drag you down, target individuals that might be difference makers, they pound the will out of them and then they force you to play their less skilled game. Game 3 in our series, the Panthers knew they were going to lose the game so they did what Champions do, they look long term - what do they need to do in game 3 to win the series? They proceeded to forget about the puck and pounded, and pounded and pounded the will out of the Leafs in the 2nd period of game 3. What did the Leafs do? Got fustraded when the Panthers started to take cheap shots thought the refs were not calling the game fairly, got in their own heads, forgot their purpose and panicked, coughed the puck up, did not protect the puck, made quick pointless reckless passes to no one, lost their focus and then the Panthers pounced and won that game. Just like we lost the series in game 3, the Oil lost this series in Game 2.

We are still the only team that took the Panthers to game 7, the team is not far away as some fans might think but we do need a DNA change to get there.

Rich pelley is that you?

 

[ToneDog]

Primary blame Dubas for signing Marner to that ridiculous contract and having NMC kick in 2 years before him being a UFA

Secondry blame Shanahan for allowing this BS to happen

Year Treliving was hired he had one month to trade marner before the NMC kicked in. Treliving did try to move marner this season and before the season started and vegas said no so its not like he didn't try but it was too late of course. Treliving was facing the consequences of the disgusting crap that dubas did

Tre caved to WIllie and gave him the $11.5m he demanded. He also overpaid Matthews, Kampf, Reaves and probably Woll. He is not Dubas bad, but he could use improvement.

 

[PromisedLand]

You guys have been really cooking in this thread. Hopefully management takes the right lessons and doesn't over correct too much.

My take is its as simple as; our bottom six has never been any good because we don't have money for depth. The core has always been good not great. And that is unfortunately not near a championship level. You do need the bottom six to do something when the top 6 neutralizes each other. Florida's 3rd line is clearly good, Tampa before that, Kessel was almost a Conn Smythe guy, etc.

Dubas really botched this era. But there is something to say that we STILL got heroics THIS YEAR from our "bad depth". Overtime goals from Benoit and Domi, Woll playing way above a league minimum salary.

Florida is the benchmark, an amazing team, great top 9, great D and goaltending, plays cohesive, and we had the top 4 highest paid players with both teams combined and none of which were Stand outs after 7 games. That is not right and we need to be strong enough to make changes. Yeah some of them will be misses, but if you're afraid of mistakes this isn't the job for you. Don't we have the highest staff payroll in the entire NHL? Surely our managers are smart enough to figure it out and if they're not, we don't have a shot anyway. All I know is the sample size is huge, and no other team would tolerate this much failure

Bingo!

 

[Confucius]

Well, we won game 6 so ... at the end of the day, it went to game 7 so I think it's fair to say it was a contest.

There's no way to know what Marchand is thinking. Maybe he'll figure we were so close that he could have put us over the top. If he did it for us next year, it'd be a huge feather in his cap for sure.

Game 5 was indeed today.

Marchand instead of Laughton, I’d say we would have won. Panthers are better than us but I feel they played poorly against us, just that we played even worse. I think that series was the worse played out of all the ones I watched.

 

[PromisedLand]

Tre caved to WIllie and gave him the $11.5m he demanded. He also overpaid Matthews, Kampf, Reaves and probably Woll. He is not Dubas bad, but he could use improvement.

I was fine with ovepraying Willy as Willy in general does show up for the playoffs and scores timely goals when needed. Matthews was a serious overpayment no doubt.

Kampf I see as someone who could be traded in future if needed. Reaves' contract can be burried in the minors so its ok; Woll is TBD. Kampf pretty much sitting most of the playoffs is a writing on the wall that he'd be gone next season the first chance Tre gets.

what pissed me off with Treliving was him throwing away futures. I really didn't want him to throw future draft on the core that has continued to fail and wanted him to sit tight and see how they do under a new coach. Carlo is ok for me nothing great but that Laughton deal was absolute stupidity!

Now we are out 2 first rounders + Minten for Carlo and Laughton basically which is kinda dumb unless this upcoming season they both go super saiyan

 

[Funk21]

I posted these thought on that posting about it being over for Marners time in Toronto. The idea that any GM would pay Marner what Drai is getting or even more than Rantanen for that matter should be a fireable offence. I get that cap is going up and some teams will have a ton of space but grabbing that fat bag of cash screams everything I need to know about Marner….he doesn’t care about winning, he just wants to get paid. That’s sad for a Toronto boy.

TML, please don’t have a video tribute. The guy chose to leave, he can get that when he is on his retirement go round. No need to celebrate him while he will be playing for another team. Furthermore don’t retire him as a TML and don’t put his number in the rafters. Yes this may all seem petty and it is but with the exception of helping us win the Atlantic in his final season what has he really done to help this team? Put us in cap hell, winning all of two rounds in his entire time with this team and a complete choke artist in games 5,6 and 7 of any series of the past 9 years with the team.

As a person I wish him all the best with his new family. Professionally I suspect he will continue to dazzle during the regular season and shrink in the playoffs. Good riddance.

 

[ToneDog]

I was fine with ovepraying Willy as Willy in general does show up for the playoffs and scores timely goals when needed. Matthews was a serious overpayment no doubt.

Kampf I see as someone who could be traded in future if needed. Reaves' contract can be burried in the minors so its ok; Woll is TBD. Kampf pretty much sitting most of the playoffs is a writing on the wall that he'd be gone next season the first chance Tre gets.

what pissed me off with Treliving was him throwing away futures. I really didn't want him to throw future draft on the core that has continued to fail and wanted him to sit tight and see how they do under a new coach. Carlo is ok for me nothing great but that Laughton deal was absolute stupidity!

Now we are out 2 first rounders + Minten for Carlo and Laughton basically which is kinda dumb unless this upcoming season they both go super saiyan

Willie disappeared the last 4 games of the Panthers series. About the same time the Panthers turned their focus on him.

Said it before the TDL. If 34 is not 100%, you do not push in your chips. You save your bullets for next year.

Shanny was dumb but without that layer between Tre and Pelley, this team could go off the cliff real quick. Tre needs to hit a HR on July for me to keep believing in him. The good think is that he has a clue when it comes to what wins in the playoffs. Dubas was a complete buffoon.

 

[PromisedLand]

Instead of paying Marner $14 mil it's going to be fascinating to see how the team will re-invest that in new replacement players.

If done correctly this could spread the wealth among numerous players and build a stronger deeper team.

This is an exciting time for Leafs Nation fans to finally see the end of the failed core 4, and the beginning of something new. This is way overdue as Marner should have been dispatched years ago when he went goalless against Columbus and Montreal series, resulting in embarrassing Leafs losses.

Hopefully: Conner+Granlund+(Boser?)/XXX and may be Ekblad if Rielly can be traded.... with Knies getting better and Cowan coming in I have zero problem with how the cap allocation and roster will shape up

Knies-Matthews-Boser/Domi
Connor-XXX-Nylander
Cowan-Granlund-Robertson/McMann/Domi
Lorentz-Laughton-McMann/Domi/Holmberg
xxx

McCabe-Tanev
OEL-Ekblad
Benoit-Carlo

OUT: Marner, Jankrok+Kampf (Robertson?) + Rielly
IN: Connor, Cowan. Granlund, Ekblad, (Boser?), (Tavares?/2C)

gotta figure out 2C whether its gonna be JT or someone else.... Them trying Nylander as 2C in the training camp was a signal for me that they really want a dynamic 2C so TBD for now

If only we knew whehter McDavid would come to Toronto or Makar would come to Toronto for sure after next season then we could obviously modify the approach this summer where we just sign 1 yr deals and keep most of the cap for these two beasts but i doubt McJesus and Makar would leave oilers and avs lol

 

[Confucius]

Tre caved to WIllie and gave him the $11.5m he demanded. He also overpaid Matthews, Kampf, Reaves and probably Woll. He is not Dubas bad, but he could use improvement.

11.5 for a 45 goal player,, doesn’t seem like an overpayment. 5 goals 10 assists in 13 games should have been better but at the end of the day William at 11.5 for the next 7 years is a good deal. Wait 3 more years and it will look like a great deal.

 

[ToneDog]

Marchand instead of Laughton, I’d say we would have won. Panthers are better than us but I feel they played poorly against us, just that we played even worse. I think that series was the worse played out of all the ones I watched.

Panthers knew they could beat the Leafs. They started slow and Bob was MEH and gifted the Leafs a 2-0 lead in games and a 2-0 lead in game #3. After that it was men against boys.

 

[PromisedLand]

Willie disappeared the last 4 games of the Panthers series. About the same time the Panthers turned their focus on him.

Said it before the TDL. If 34 is not 100%, you do not push in your chips. You save your bullets for next year.

Shanny was dumb but without that layer between Tre and Pelley, this team could go off the cliff real quick. Tre needs to hit a HR on July for me to keep believing in him. The good think is that he has a clue when it comes to what wins in the playoffs. Dubas was a complete buffoon.

100% agree that if your main guy 34 ain't 100% don't go all in that was absolutely stupid.

Willy went quiet like most of the team last 4 games against panthers but then again the issue IMO is Tavares and the LW they can't keep up with the pace of the game and since Willy is always the puck carrier it is easy to game plan against a line like that

lets see what Tre does this off season; he doesn't have any future top picks to make deals anymore so it would have to be
1) UFA marker
2) trade robertson (or Cowan) for help now... i think he keeps cowan
3) use some relationship he has built over the years with other GMs for help now for the Leafs and he would help them in future

TBD of course....

we got 3 more years of Matthews after that we are looking at a rebuild anyway... I don't think Matthews re-signs; and if he does his contract is gonna be so ridiculous you wouldn't be able to ice a competitive roster anwyay....

 

[The Shadow]

Panthers knew they could beat the Leafs. They started slow and Bob was MEH and gifted the Leafs a 2-0 lead in games and a 2-0 lead in game #3. After that it was men against boys.

You must have missed game 6

The leafs played their best game

Also I still think if Stolarz doesn’t get injured the leafs win the series

 

[ToneDog]

11.5 for a 45 goal player,, doesn’t seem like an overpayment. 5 goals 10 assists in 13 games should have been better but at the end of the day William at 11.5 for the next 7 years is a good deal. Wait 3 more years and it will look like a great deal.

Willie played well in the playoffs but when push came to shove, he disappeared in the last 4 games. You do not see that from McDavid and Draisaitl and for $11.5m I expect you to lead by example.

This team is paying 4 proven losers franchise player money only to see them shrink in big moments. Thankfully we will only have two such $11+m players next year.

 

[ToneDog]

You must have missed game 6

The leafs played their best game

Also I still think if Stolarz doesn’t get injured the leafs win the series

Game 6 was surprising but I thought the Panthers took their foot off the gas. Woll was good. I thought Matty's goal was savable but credit to the Leafs because I thought they had had enough and would mail in that game. When it counted most, the Panthers did what the Panthers do and this core did what this core does.

Stolarz was a big loss but I am not sure if the Panthers do not solve him the deeper the series went.

 

[centipede2233]

100% agree that if your main guy 34 ain't 100% don't go all in that was absolutely stupid.

Willy went quiet like most of the team last 4 games against panthers but then again the issue IMO is Tavares and the LW they can't keep up with the pace of the game and since Willy is always the puck carrier it is easy to game plan against a line like that

lets see what Tre does this off season; he doesn't have any future top picks to make deals anymore so it would have to be
1) UFA marker
2) trade robertson (or Cowan) for help now... i think he keeps cowan
3) use some relationship he has built over the years with other GMs for help now for the Leafs and he would help them in future

TBD of course....

we got 3 more years of Matthews after that we are looking at a rebuild anyway... I don't think Matthews re-signs; and if he does his contract is gonna be so ridiculous you wouldn't be able to ice a competitive roster anwyay....

Tre was forced to go all in because shanahan was trying to save his job. It’s the gift that keeps on giving. The last 11 years has been atrocious and MLSE is to blame.

 

[PromisedLand]

Rumors out of Toronto that Brad is looking for short term deals, for some reason he wants cap flexibility next off season.

No one knows why ....

Calgary fans would finally give Tre some respite if this happens

 

[PromisedLand]

Tre was forced to go all in because shanahan was trying to save his job. It’s the gift that keeps on giving. The last 11 years has been atrocious and MLSE is to blame.

thats what I think too. it was widely reported that ShanaCON called the core 4 and told them that they wont be traded after Dubas was canned so I belive it that ShanaCON is the one that pushed for ridiculous trades last season not sure how much say Tre hand in those

but now its Tre's team

 

[PromisedLand]

I submitted Matthews naturalstattrick stats with and without Marner
And...
I submitted Marners naturalstatstrick stats with and without Matthews
From years 2021-2024

This was AI's findings:

The comprehensive data comparison between Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner at 5v5 reveals a clear asymmetry in their impact when separated. While both players form an elite duo together, Matthews’ performance remains strong even without Marner, whereas Marner’s metrics drop considerably when separated from Matthews. Matthews maintains above-average possession (54.55% SF%) and shot quality (57.44% xGF%) without Marner, indicating he continues to drive play effectively with other linemates. When paired with Marner, Matthews sees modest improvements in high-danger goal share (HDGF%) and scoring chance generation, but his underlying strength suggests he is capable of sustaining elite impact regardless of his winger.

In contrast, Marner’s numbers without Matthews are not elite. His shot share (47.84% SF%), expected goal share (48.74% xGF%), and possession metrics all fall below the 50% threshold — meaning his lines are being outshot, out-chanced, and outplayed at even strength. While his high-danger goal share (57.78% HDGF%) remains respectable, it is the only major metric above 55%, and even that isn’t enough to classify his overall 5v5 performance as elite. Elite performance typically includes a consistent edge in shot volume, expected goals, and territorial control — which Marner lacks without Matthews. Therefore, Marner’s numbers without Matthews are clearly not elite, and the data supports the conclusion that he relies significantly on Matthews to sustain top-tier play.

Sticky this post on every Marner thread

 

[PromisedLand]

Nope in fact it appears its Leafs management that has decided the outcome not Mitch.,

View attachment 1050150

Looks like Mitch Marner is getting fired not re-hired!!!!

 

[The Masters]

try for what
this team isa joke just move on

 

[Da Mash]

Results are not even remotely the same. The core, particularly Marner and Matthews, cannot hold a candle to those mentioned in @IPS post.

Because ? A opinion is just that. I at least I witnessed the last cup. I’ve seen a lot of stars come and go. Fans pick their favorites because they like their “growl” or supposed effort. When in fact we have no clue how some stars here “compete” level are.

But it seems every vet that comes here praises the stars “compete” level and their desire to win. Funny how fans know more the vet teammates.

We stuck by those past “stars” and they won nothing here. But we’re quick to trash our present stars because we blame their salaries etc when we gave two craps about the past salaries.

Blame cap management on management and not the players.

I’m all for change. But it’s a joy watching our elite players here just like I loved watching Salming and Sittler and Clark and Gilmour even tho they won nothing.

If we end up being the only team taking the mighty Panthers to 7 games ….does that make us the second best team?

Asking for a friend

 

[PromisedLand]

interesting.....

 

[Da Mash]

So Marner has a full NMC and it’s the leafs that decided to have Marner hit free agency?

Mediots and fans will stoop this low to justify the hate.

Marner had all the leverage as he did when fans proclaimed they could force Marner to waive.

It’s not had to understand how agents work. The know the value their client has here and it’s too expensive for the leafs. But now to make Marner look like a bad guy like the mediots did the same crap to Sundin, Kessel etc they come up with “ The leafs decided” to justify Marner leaving without compensation.