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Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

I've been a long time lurker and naw, ac1224 was not at the front of those lines.

They were the dubas fan boys and ac1224 was definitely not one of them.
Lol... lurking for a long time, and decide to join in late May - after the season ended? You've proceeded to live in the Marner thread.

Someone needs to inform Marner that he needs a better PR team that isnt so obvious.
 
"With speculation swirling about Marner’s status after another early start to the summer for the Leafs, the home-grown winger said on Monday that it “means the world” to play in Toronto. ...“That would be a goal,” Marner said when he was asked if he wants to stay in Toronto longterm. “I’ve expressed my love for this place, this city. I grew up here. We’ll start thinking about that now and trying to figure something out.” ... "We’re looked upon as, you know, kind of gods here to be honest,” Marner said. “Something that you really appreciate and the love that you get here from this fan base and this attention is unlike any other. You saw with the Raps a couple years ago (when the Toronto Raptors won the NBA championship in 2019), the love that they still have for a lot of those players … That’s kind of the love you want.”"

That's a pretty clear statement showing a desire to stay, and that he is open to doing so, but it's pretty funny to see you and your friends pretend he wasn't because he didn't say it in the exact specific way you want.

There is no evidence of any of that. Marner has never been open to signing in-season.

Of course he has something to do with it. It's his contract. The lamest excuse a GM can give is he wouldn't negotiate in season when he was fully aware of the situation and had plenty of time to get a contract done.

Both team and player got what they wanted once, and both team and player benefited from it. We could have had that mutually beneficial agreement again, but Treliving screwed it up.
That's literally all he says whenever asked about extending. That would be a goal. I've expressed my love for this place, this city and I grew up here. Every player in the league says this when contracts are brought up. Actual players who want to stay aren't afraid to just say out loud I want to stay here and want to win here and nowhere else. He gives PR trained answers. You use PR trained answers to back your statement that he wanted to stay here and wanted a contract signed last off season and it's just hilarious these are the quotes you gave as evidence of that.

Guy has an agent that loves to take his players to free agency to play these kinds of games and refuses to negotiate during the season kind of implies they didn't get the overpayment they liked last off season so they won't negotiate to try and scare the team into giving them what they want.

He does. Which is why he can easily tell his agent to stop with the games and negotiate a contract while he focuses on the season. You act like you're on this guys payroll with the management should respect his wishes when asked not to negotiate during the season and should've gave him everything he wanted as soon as he was hired. Players that actually want to stay as bad as you claim he wants to would have their agent negotiate during the season and not turn down an offer just because it was during the season.

Player got what he wanted once. Team didn't get nothing. We got to witness the same stuff during that entire contract then when he was on his ELC. Now we get to witness the same stuff where he tried to hold the team hostage to get whatever he wants again and clearly was told to go f*** himself this time. Guess it helps not having a pushover like the last guy eh who will just give them a blank cheque.
 
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Whoa whoa whoa. Marner was willing to stay here despite in Toronto despite the toxicity and fringe interactions and threats but the straw that broke the camels back was Treliving’s incompetence in failing to kowtow to him properly to the point that he wouldn’t negotiate in season? I don’t think I’m mocking Marner so much as storytime with Dekes.
You would know all about storytime, but you still don't seem to be getting this. As bad as the external noise can be against Marner, it's still just external noise. It's a whole other issue to feel disrespected and undervalued by your employer. That's the environment you work in everyday, and it can absolutely make somebody rethink if going through everything to be here is actually worth it.
 
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That's literally all he says whenever asked about extending. That would be a goal. I've expressed my love for this place, this city and I grew up here. Every player in the league says this when contracts are brought up. Actual players who want to stay aren't afraid to just say out loud I want to stay here and want to win here and nowhere else. He gives PR trained answers. You use PR trained answers to back your statement that he wanted to stay here and wanted a contract signed last off season and it's just hilarious these are the quotes you gave as evidence of that.

Guy has an agent that loves to take his players to free agency to play these kinds of games and refuses to negotiate during the season kind of implies they didn't get the overpayment they liked last off season so they won't negotiate to try and scare the team into giving them what they want.

He does. Which is why he can easily tell his agent to stop with the games and negotiate a contract while he focuses on the season. You act like you're on this guys payroll with the management should respect his wishes when asked not to negotiate during the season and should've gave him everything he wanted as soon as he was hired. Players that actually want to stay as bad as you claim he wants to would have their agent negotiate during the season and not turn down an offer just because it was during the season.

Player got what he wanted once. Team didn't get nothing. We got to witness the same stuff during that entire contract then when he was on his ELC. Now we get to witness the same stuff where he tried to hold the team hostage to get whatever he wants again and clearly was told to go f*** himself this time. Guess it helps not having a pushover like the last guy eh who will just give them a blank cheque.

Real genuine desire to stay with an organization looks and feels a certain way and Mitch ain't it. Now I don't profess to know what will happen on the John Tavares front, but there's a plain spoken openness about wanting to stay in Toronto and there aren't high stakes pressure points being manufactured to get there. But if JT were playing the Darren Ferris game, look how different things would look and sound:

1) Airing of grievances. John Tavares was brought to Toronto on the promise of playing with Mitch Marner, but got the bait and switch and Matthews was given Marner after Babcock was fired. This has historically never been addressed and Tavares' numbers have suffered as a result over the years.

2) John Tavares had his captaincy taken away for the benefit of Auston Matthews. No way that kind of insult can be redressed. He will not take a hometown discount and has done enough for the organization already.

3) John Tavares is worth $10 million on the open market. Look at what Brock Nelson got and do a superficial comparison of goals scored this past season. Not a penny less for John.

4) John Tavares does so much for the community. You should all be grateful.

5) This fanbase is toxic, think about the humiliation JT had to endure when the PP was not functioning and he was blamed. Yada yada yada.
 
Of course teams would consider a shorter term, because he would suck badly from age 32 onwards...if he's bad in the playoffs now, he'd be worse later when he's old...he's probably not signing a 3 to 4 year deal unless he gets $15 million per.
Marner wants a 3 year deal. He isnt taking a 5 year deal, no way.

The NHL said the cap will likely go up 10mill per year.

The NHL said the cap will likely be about 113 million in 2028.

Which would mean the cap would be around 123 million at the beginning of the 2029 season when Marner is up for a new contract.

123 million as a %
14% = $17,220,000
13% = $15,990,000
12% = $14,760,000
11% = $13,530,000
10% = $12,300,000
9% = $11,070,000

When Kadri was 31, Ferris got him a deal with Calgary for 8.48%x7 years.

So... even if Marner signs for 3 years, he ptobably feels pretty safe to expect that he would get 11 millionx7.

Scenario 1 (Toronto):
8-Year Deal at $13.5 Million AAV
Total Earnings: $108,000,000
End of Contract Age: 36 (Marner is currently 28)
Pre-tax Earnings: $108,000,000
After-tax Earnings: $50,220,000

Scenario 2 (in Dallas ex):
3-Year Deal at $13.5 Million AAV
Followed by a 7-Year Deal at $11 Million AAV
Total Earnings: $117,500,000
End of Contract Age: 38
Pre-tax Earnings: $117,500,000
After-tax Earnings: $74,025,000

So... Marner would make substantially more money in a low tax state and if he took the 3 year deal. Its pretty low risk he would make less than the 8 year Leaf deal. Unless his stats take a steep dive.
 
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You would know all about storytime, but you still don't seem to be getting this. As bad as the external noise can be against Marner, it's still just external noise. It's a whole other issue to feel disrespected and undervalued by your employer. That's the environment you work in everyday, and it can absolutely make somebody rethink if going through everything to be here is actually worth it.

Well, if that's the case, let's thank Brad Treliving for being such a massive jerk GM that finally substantive changes can be made.
 
You would know all about storytime, but you still don't seem to be getting this. As bad as the external noise can be against Marner, it's still just external noise. It's a whole other issue to feel disrespected and undervalued by your employer. That's the environment you work in everyday, and it can absolutely make somebody rethink if going through everything to be here is actually worth it.
Marner wants to be paid like his generational coworker who plays the harder position and has a full trophy case.

He was already overpaid the last 6 years and that wasnt enough for him.

He can take a hike.
 
Real genuine desire to stay with an organization looks and feels a certain way and Mitch ain't it. Now I don't profess to know what will happen on the John Tavares front, but there's a plain spoken openness about wanting to stay in Toronto and there aren't high stakes pressure points being manufactured to get there. But if JT were playing the Darren Ferris game, look how different things would look and sound:

1) Airing of grievances. John Tavares was brought to Toronto on the promise of playing with Mitch Marner, but got the bait and switch and Matthews was given Marner after Babcock was fired. This has historically never been addressed and Tavares' numbers have suffered as a result over the years.

2) John Tavares had his captaincy taken away for the benefit of Auston Matthews. No way that kind of insult can be redressed. He will not take a hometown discount and has done enough for the organization already.

3) John Tavares is worth $10 million on the open market. Look at what Brock Nelson got and do a superficial comparison of goals scored this past season. Not a penny less for John.

4) John Tavares does so much for the community. You should all be grateful.

5) This fanbase is toxic, think about the humiliation JT had to endure when the PP was not functioning and he was blamed. Yada yada yada.
Entire org is gonna need a cleansing. Probably managements fault with all this disrespect shown to the players over the years (especially Marner) is why they haven't been able to get close to winning anything.
 
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We should be firing him for being so incompetent that he let one of the best players in the league and franchise history - that had wanted to stay here - walk for nothing in his prime.

If it makes you happy Dekes, they can fire Treliving too. Just like every other coach and executive in Toronto that bet their career on Mitch. What’s one more casualty?
 
We should be firing him for being so incompetent that he let one of the best players in the league and franchise history - that had wanted to stay here - walk for nothing in his prime.
Stop blaming management for the people Marner surrounds himself with that give him bad career advice. Time for Marner to become a big boy and take control of his life for once.
 
I submitted Matthews naturalstattrick stats with and without Marner
And...
I submitted Marners naturalstatstrick stats with and without Matthews
From years 2021-2024

This was AI's findings:

The comprehensive data comparison between Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner at 5v5 reveals a clear asymmetry in their impact when separated. While both players form an elite duo together, Matthews’ performance remains strong even without Marner, whereas Marner’s metrics drop considerably when separated from Matthews. Matthews maintains above-average possession (54.55% SF%) and shot quality (57.44% xGF%) without Marner, indicating he continues to drive play effectively with other linemates. When paired with Marner, Matthews sees modest improvements in high-danger goal share (HDGF%) and scoring chance generation, but his underlying strength suggests he is capable of sustaining elite impact regardless of his winger.

In contrast, Marner’s numbers without Matthews are not elite. His shot share (47.84% SF%), expected goal share (48.74% xGF%), and possession metrics all fall below the 50% threshold — meaning his lines are being outshot, out-chanced, and outplayed at even strength. While his high-danger goal share (57.78% HDGF%) remains respectable, it is the only major metric above 55%, and even that isn’t enough to classify his overall 5v5 performance as elite. Elite performance typically includes a consistent edge in shot volume, expected goals, and territorial control — which Marner lacks without Matthews. Therefore, Marner’s numbers without Matthews are clearly not elite, and the data supports the conclusion that he relies significantly on Matthews to sustain top-tier play.
 
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You know the marner hate is completely ridiculous when people would rather have bennet at $10 mil.
2 wrongs don’t make a right. I wouldn’t pay Bennett 10 million anymore than I would pay Marner 14.
We have our C at 13 million. A winger at 11.5 and soon another (Knies) at 7? Maybe.

Now if you can get 3 more players at around 6, that will round us out with more balance.
It’s up to Matthews/Nylander to drive the top 2 lines now and show they are worth keeping.
 
But that isn't new.

Stupid has been strong in this fanbase forever.
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