Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[thewave]

Mentally EP is even softer than Marner.

I am not so sure. I am not a big fan of his but I am open to getting good player and there may be something there for Willy.

 

[Trapper]

GM's have to be careful what they pay Marner...if they pay him too much, every player on the team and FAs in the future will want more money.

Let some other team worry about it. 7 years of looking at half the Cap and hearing core 4 every year is enough.
Tre said it was about team when he got here. Everyone is important. Well it never will be as long as the core 4 remain. I’ll be glad when he’s gone so at least we can start to move on.

 

[Superstar]

Oh yeah, a few years from now, Marner will be a force baby. Just wait until you see him after he starts realizing all that untapped potential!

Untap potential, lol, he might be able to grow a beard like Joe Thornton by age 40...that's alot of potential...

 

[WilliamInLondon]

GM's have to be careful what they pay Marner...if they pay him too much, every player on the team and FAs in the future will want more money.

it's why I think i) SOME team is going to do it (e.g. Chicago, Anaheim, Utah); and ii) it's going to be a poison pill for that team.

Less of a risk for Chicago because they have no one other than Bedard. Anaheim literally has no one. Utah is the one I'd keep an eye on. If Marner signs for $14M, what are Cooley and Doan going to ask for next summer? It's the Tavares effect all over again

 

[WilliamInLondon]

I am not so sure. I am not a big fan of his but I am open to getting good player and there may be something there for Willy.

I would do it as an ultimate buy low. If it means moving Rielly and a few prospects/picks, it's worth the risk. EP doesn't have any trade protection, so even if he flops in the playoffs, he'd probably rebuild his value in the regular season playing alongside Nylander and getting PP1 time. He'd be tradable next offseason unless he really craps the bed.

If last season was an anomaly and he plays to 2022-2024 form, you have a Top 30 player on a long-term contract at $11M AAV. I'd take a 26 year old full-potential EP as a 2nd line center over a 28 year old Marner at $14.5M with a ton of baggage, that's for sure.

 

[Stephen]

it's why I think i) SOME team is going to do it (e.g. Chicago, Anaheim, Utah); and ii) it's going to be a poison pill for that team.

Less of a risk for Chicago because they have no one other than Bedard. Anaheim literally has no one. Utah is the one I'd keep an eye on. If Marner signs for $14M, what are Cooley and Doan going to ask for next summer? It's the Tavares effect all over again

His best financial outcome leaving Toronto is to be someone's Huberdeau, Gaudreau on a non playoff team possibly in the west or a tax free place.

His best on ice outcome leaving Toronto is to bandwagon on a pre-built contender but take a new town discount to make it work. Ironically, I think Dallas as a landing spot before Rantanen could have made sense, but musical chairs being what it is, etc...

His best financial outcome and on ice option is probably staying in Toronto, but we all know the feelings on both sides.

 

[Stephen]

I am not so sure. I am not a big fan of his but I am open to getting good player and there may be something there for Willy.

Elias Pettersson is definitely a boom bust proposition. Highly distressed asset but you don't get upside if you don't roll the dice.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

His best financial outcome leaving Toronto is to be someone's Huberdeau, Gaudreau on a non playoff team possibly in the west or a tax free place.

His best on ice outcome leaving Toronto is to bandwagon on a pre-built contender but take a new town discount to make it work. Ironically, I think Dallas as a landing spot before Rantanen could have made sense, but musical chairs being what it is, etc...

His best financial outcome and on ice option is probably staying in Toronto, but we all know the feelings on both sides.

If I were in Mitch's shoes - with me being me and not Mitch - I would want to find the sweet spot between income, legacy, personal accolades, and success. Almost everyone in Toronto hates him right now, but I think that quickly goes away if he signs for $10.5M X 8 with full NMC/NTC. Then he can try to recoup as much of that as possible through sponsorship, endorsements, etc. Or, just accept 20% below max value but try to win a cup for your childhood team. It's still > $10M USD at the end of the day...

Plan B would be to go to LA or Utah where it's a young team on the upswing. Going to Chicago, Philly, Detroit, etc. would be a mistake imo. It'll be as vicious as Toronto with less cover.

 

[Stephen]

If I were in Mitch's shoes - with me being me and not Mitch - I would want to find the sweet spot between income, legacy, personal accolades, and success. Almost everyone in Toronto hates him right now, but I think that quickly goes away if he signs for $10.5M X 8 with full NMC/NTC. Then he can try to recoup as much of that as possible through sponsorship, endorsements, etc. Or, just accept 20% below max value but try to win a cup for your childhood team. It's still > $10M USD at the end of the day...

Plan B would be to go to LA or Utah where it's a young team on the upswing. Going to Chicago, Philly, Detroit, etc. would be a mistake imo. It'll be as vicious as Toronto with less cover.

The money is automatic for Mitch. The marginal little bit more feels insignificant compared to comfort and winning.

 

[ULF_55]

https://realestate.usnews.com/places/rankings/best-places-to-live/best-places-to-live-for-quality-of-life

What is his pursuit?

Winning?
Quality of Life?
Family quality of life?
Not using Jack Johnson's money management strategies?

Wish it had turned out better than it did.

I hope things go well for him, regardless of where he ends up. I have no doubt he gave everything he had to the team for the last 9 seasons. You can only do what you are capable of doing.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[ToneDog]

Haha, would you do it? Problem for problem.

Pettersson for Rielly, Robertson, and a mid-level pick.

- Rielly goes home. Canucks get a lower AAV and termed albatross and $4M in cap space.
- Leafs get a proper #2 center, PP1, and potential headcase. Best 1-2 C in the NHL if Pettersson regains form. Ballard year pains if not.

I'd be willing to gamble on Petey if means dumping Rielly and signing Ekblad.

 

[MCR74]

It was reported last week on the Fan 590 morning show by the hosts and then Seravalli. Starting to believe he does not want to be in Toronto because he feels he gets most of the blame for their playoff failures. If he and Matthews were not so unlikeable, maybe the fans cut them some slack. Not breaking them up in the playoffs showed me the tail is wagging the dog and he needs to go.

This. The Marner era is over.

 

[Leafs87]

Looking at this free agency pool, subtracting Marner and looking to add pieces since we have no assets for trades has me noticing that we will have a worse team next year. Depending on the signings we may even end up with some bad overpayments as well, which we haven’t had in a while. I get Marner and Matthews aren’t ideal cap hits, but great players. The overpayments I’m talking about is something like 33 YO Nelson for 7 mill over 5/6 years. Kinda the start of the end.

 

[ToneDog]

Looking at this free agency pool, subtracting Marner and looking to add pieces since we have no assets for trades has me noticing that we will have a worse team next year. Depending on the signings we may even end up with some bad overpayments as well, which we haven’t had in a while. I get Marner and Matthews aren’t ideal cap hits, but great players. The overpayments I’m talking about is something like 33 YO Nelson for 7 mill over 5/6 years. Kinda the start of the end.

Tre did pretty good last summer. All they have to do is spread the money down the road to lower the AAV. They have 3 years to win a cup if Matty walks or less if he continues to play like he did this year.

 

[MCR74]

Tre did pretty good last summer. All they have to do is spread the money down the road to lower the AAV. They have 3 years to win a cup if Matty walks or less if he continues to play like he did this year.

Exactly. If we sign Marner to his asking price, they'll just be running it back. Let some other team fork out $13M+.

 

[Leafs87]

Tre did pretty good last summer. All they have to do is spread the money down the road to lower the AAV. They have 3 years to win a cup if Matty walks or less if he continues to play like he did this year.

I think he did okay to push a run last year. 35 year old Tanev for 6 years, 32 year old OEL for 4 years isn’t ideal long term by any means. The decline of Tanev is definitely coming in 1/2 years. Stolarz was nice. Lorentz was nice, but if you subtract Marner and keep adding nice pieces you’re likely done with being competitive within 2/3 years. Just my opinion but Matthews cannot be relied upon to be the guy with his injuries and then we’re down to relying on Nylander/Knies/Tavares.

 

[BallardEra]

From 6 years ago. Interesting how things have changed:

Hard to imagine Marner not a Leaf

As Mitch Marner tried his best to evade contract talk, Maple Leafs fans were busy bidding hundreds of dollars on a nearby signed photo of him celebrating a goal on …

torontosun.com

 

[ToneDog]

I think he did okay to push a run last year. 35 year old Tanev for 6 years, 32 year old OEL for 4 years isn’t ideal long term by any means. The decline of Tanev is definitely coming in 1/2 years. Stolarz was nice. Lorentz was nice, but if you subtract Marner and keep adding nice pieces you’re likely done with being competitive within 2/3 years. Just my opinion but Matthews cannot be relied upon to be the guy with his injuries and then we’re down to relying on Nylander/Knies/Tavares.

There is no long term IMO. It is win in the next 3 years and probably suck for the following 2 to 5 years or worse. IMO signing Marner for huge dollars could all but snuff out winning anything and then becoming the SJ Sharks or Chicago Blackhawks.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

There is no long term IMO. It is win in the next 3 years and probably suck for the following 2 to 5 years or worse. IMO signing Marner for huge dollars could all but snuff out winning anything and then becoming the SJ Sharks or Chicago Blackhawks.

I think the Sharks have a lot of good young pieces. However, as we all know, gaining assets is only half the battle.

Chicago I'm less confident in. I don't like some of the decisions they've made.

 

[MCR74]

it's why I think i) SOME team is going to do it (e.g. Chicago, Anaheim, Utah); and ii) it's going to be a poison pill for that team.

Less of a risk for Chicago because they have no one other than Bedard. Anaheim literally has no one. Utah is the one I'd keep an eye on. If Marner signs for $14M, what are Cooley and Doan going to ask for next summer? It's the Tavares effect all over again

Better it happen to Utah than us (again).

 

[Leafs87]

There is no long term IMO. It is win in the next 3 years and probably suck for the following 2 to 5 years or worse. IMO signing Marner for huge dollars could all but snuff out winning anything and then becoming the SJ Sharks or Chicago Blackhawks.

Agree, there is no long term. If Marner leaves, there is likely no win now either. Marner is part of the problem, but the core will still be over the hill Tavares, unreliable health Matthews and soft as puppy shit Nylander. I dunno if Nylander got the criticism he deserves for giving up on plays in Game 7 when it was still 0-0 to avoid getting hit.

 

[ToneDog]

I think the Sharks have a lot of good young pieces. However, as we all know, gaining assets is only half the battle.

Chicago I'm less confident in. I don't like some of the decisions they've made.

Yes, but it takes years to accurate good young pieces and you have to be able develop them, something this organization failed failed to do under Shannahan. We will be Shark and Hawks that have sucked to get where they are today and they are still years away from seriously contending, unless they sign Marner of course.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Yes, but it takes years to accurate good young pieces and you have to be able develop them, something this organization failed failed to do under Shannahan. We will be Shark and Hawks that have sucked to get where they are today and they are still years away from seriously contending, unless they sign Marner of course.

Oh trust me, I am aware.

April 2016 I was on top of the world. Now I'm thinking that ostriches sticking their head in the sand is a pretty underrated ability.

 

[MCR74]

Yes, but it takes years to accurate good young pieces and you have to be able develop them, something this organization failed failed to do under Shannahan. We will be Shark and Hawks that have sucked to get where they are today and they are still years away from seriously contending, unless they sign Marner of course.

l can't wait for the main board turnaround once Marner signs with a new team.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

Agree, there is no long term. If Marner leaves, there is likely no win now either. Marner is part of the problem, but the core will still be over the hill Tavares, unreliable health Matthews and soft as puppy shit Nylander. I dunno if Nylander got the criticism he deserves for giving up on plays in Game 7 when it was still 0-0 to avoid getting hit.

haha, I agree with all of the above.

A part of me is like, if this team hasn't won in 58 years and won't win the cup in the foreseeable future, at least have "nice narratives" that make a season worth watching. Or have a bunch of guys that play hard and above their fullest potential, which is the opposite of this current team.

There's a reason why so many people here love Doug 'Killer' Gilmour and Wendel Clark. By all accounts, Clark was a good NHL, but he's forever immortalized because of how he played the game. Same with guys like Roberts and Tucker. Nobody is going to legitimately miss Marner in 5 years from now when he is gone just as how no one misses Kessel.

Out of the current roster, everyone loves Knies because he has that 'dawg' in him. If any of Cowan's game translates into the NHL, he's another one to watch. It's not much to cheer for, but at least it's not NOTHING. Put them with this core without changing them over the next 2-3 years, and chances are they'll become more like than core than the core becoming more like Matthew Knies.