Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[notbias]

A bit disingenuous. He's a sophomore and was injured during part of the Florida series.

Analytics are always important but a star like Marner should also be visually a tier above a guy like Knies. And that obviously wasn't the case.

He was a tier above Knies... just people don't like his playing style or him so it won't get mentioned.

 

[Menzinger]

He was a tier above Knies... just people don't like his playing style or him so it won't get mentioned.

Playing style shapes biases, no arguments there.

But at the same time I don't know how we can look at the postseason, see the teams that succeed in recent years, and how the league handles officiating during it, and not see the added value in some styles over others.

 

[ToneDog]

he had 3 pts in the last 11 game , he was crap in both rounds and he'd even be more invisible without anyone to carry him on the third line

I said he was better in round 1 this year vs last year but you are right, 3 points in the last 11 games is bad.

 

[Stephen]

Again, he didn't have a great playoff performance and people are acting like he was the best player.

He is becoming overrated on this board and can do no wrong just because people like his style of play.

I am also assuming that you are fine with Matthews' performance if we are taking injuries into consideration, right?

Matthew Knies scored as many goals as Marner and Matthews combined. He's 22, in his sophomore year.

Made a lot of courageous plays, used his body, scored big goals and brought a lot of uplift in the games.

He also makes 7% of Auston Matthews salary.

If you want to drag him through the mud that's your prerogative.

 

[ToneDog]

Matthew Knies scored as many goals as Marner and Matthews combined. He's 22, in his sophomore year.

Made a lot of courageous plays, used his body, scored big goals and brought a lot of uplift in the games.

He also makes 7% of Auston Matthews salary.

If you want to drag him through the mud that's your prerogative.

Anybody watching both series could see Knies and Willy were the most dangerous Leafs until Willy did his best Nylander. Played well above his pay grade, unlike some. Gonna get paid big time now.

 

[frizzer1]

Yes, Marner has played poorly in the playoffs.
But this year Matthews was so bad that Marner rarely got the puck, and he’s a guy that needs his line mates to take advantage of his passes when he does.

 

[hfman]

retooling the core and moving on from Mitch makes sense and maybe one other core player but man its kind of hilarious that they did it by walking him to free agency. They waited for his no trade to kick in before trying to trade him and he just predictably said no thanks. Could have got a kings ransom for him a few years ago. Also funny that next years first is gone for the transitional year. If your gonna mix up the core you have to do it right and they arnt doing it right.

EXACT same situation with Matthews right now.

Don't make the same mistake twice.

Get a king's ransom for Matthews NOW before they walk right into the same problem 3 years from now

 

[Stephen]

Anybody watching both series could see Knies and Willy were the most dangerous Leafs until Willy did his best Nylander. Played well above his pay grade, unlike some. Gonna get paid big time now.

How unstoppable would that first line had been if Auston Matthews applied himself the same way on the physical side and pushed the pace like Knies?

 

[notbias]

Matthew Knies scored as many goals as Marner and Matthews combined. He's 22, in his sophomore year.

Made a lot of courageous plays, used his body, scored big goals and brought a lot of uplift in the games.

He also makes 7% of Auston Matthews salary.

If you want to drag him through the mud that's your prerogative.

He produced at a 44 point pace....

Matthews has the same amount of goals as McDavid this year... so what?

 

[Legion34]

Jt would be great as a 3c. We just need a 2c behind Matthews.

I still hold out hope for Laughton but he would be great on wing too.

I am fixated on Karlson but I don’t know what other options would be.

Maybe mavrik bourque. Is an option for future. Rossi? Both small

 

[ToneDog]

EXACT same situation with Matthews right now.

Don't make the same mistake twice.

Get a king's ransom for Matthews NOW before they walk right into the same problem 3 years from now

If you shop him and do not move him, it could piss him off like I think asking Marner to waive probably did Marner. They have coddled this guy for years. I doubt they would risk pissing him off but I agree, they should move him sooner than later. The fact that he hasn't been able to put the team on his back in the last 8 playoffs makes me think he is not capable of doing so.

 

[notDatsyuk]

And lose the 8th year?
Again. This is a potential difference of 14 million ish dollars.

1.) is playing with “Marchand” or another player worth giving up 14 million gauranteed? How much do you really want to play with any given player?

2.) the cap is finite. So Mitch taking money automatically leads to a player leaving. If he takes 14 million. Most good teams will have to get rid of someone. Teams dump players to make room all
The time.

3.) the same argument could have applied when he held out for every last cent. His best friends and mentors (Martin/marleau) and Tons of players had to be moved out to accommodate his salary.
Why didnt he just take 9 million a year to play with better players?

Mitch will decide where he wants to go. He will decide if the 8th year is important to him.
He is leaving a top 5 team. If he wants to leave. Then he is probably not going to a clearly better team.

I don’t think “teams losing assets” has ever ranked high on any ufas list.

Which was the rest of my point: which is more important to you - an extra year guaranteed, or a better chance of winning?

JT picked the latter, but I can see Mitch going the other way.

 

[Racer88]

I really wish someone would look at this without bias, forget who doesn’t like Marner, who doesn’t like Nylander, management who is stuck in believing failing over and over will magically fix itself because lessons learned and do a serious evaluation of this team.

What is best going forward for both regular season and playoffs?
Is it Matthews out with a new C between Knies and Marner?
Is it Marner out with a different kind of forward? Is it Nylander? Is it 2 of them? 1 of them. But the current structure, doesn’t work. Can everyone agree on that?

Agreed 100%

 

[Puckstuff]

Jt would be great as a 3c. We just need a 2c behind Matthews.

I still hold out hope for Laughton but he would be great on wing too.

I am fixated on Karlson but I don’t know what other options would be.

Maybe mavrik bourque. Is an option for future. Rossi? Both small

I like the idea of Laughton and Tavares being 2/3 of a 3rd line with Laughton at LW. J.T probably helps Laughton get back to 40 points and Laughton should help defensively.

2c is a bigger question mark. I don't think we have the assets for Rossi and I don't think Bennett is hitting free agency. I think we at least gotta try and go for Duchene or Granlund imo.

 

[Racer88]

Knies is becoming so overrated on this board...

A 0.53 PPG by any of the stars would get them run out of town.

People always post Marner's game 5-7 stats, here are Knies' from this year.

5 GP
0 G
0 A
0 P
-10

And if Kneis was being paid 11-13 million he would also be in trouble with the fans

 

[Racer88]

Mathews/Marner/Nylander all play a different style of game regardless of the fact none of them would be considered tough or gritty

The one thing they have in common is they disappear in the later stages of playoff series.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Say Vegas says we want Mitch at 12m not a penny more. Mitch says 13m under Vegas tax scheme and I want 8 years.

Toronto could sign him to 13m x 8 and trade while retaining 1m a year but we get a returned prospect or pick back.

We would be facilitating the deal. Making it work or else Mitch may go somewhere else.

So we'd be paying 8M for whatever they think the extra year of him is worth?

Makes some sense.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I could see Nylander just dismissing losing Marner. "Doesn't matter, he's not here now. We have to find success within this lockerroom" and it causing issues via the media.

I could see Matthews saying something when the team struggles. Not so much about Nylander, but something like "we sure could use Marner right now" type of soundbyte.

I can see the media, particularly those who have been shilling for Mitch, using either as clickbait.

I was thinking more along the lines of starting something in the dressing room.

 

[Stephen]

Again, he didn't have a great playoff performance and people are acting like he was the best player.

He is becoming overrated on this board and can do no wrong just because people like his style of play.

I am also assuming that you are fine with Matthews' performance if we are taking injuries into consideration, right?

Knies is tied for 7th in playoff scoring with 5 goals and has been eliminated for almost a week.

"Didn't have a great playoffs."

No, I'm not fine with Auston Matthews. He's a solid F-

 

[Stephen]

And if Kneis was being paid 11-13 million he would also be in trouble with the fans

I don't think he'd be in trouble at all under any circumstances because he played well in the playoffs.

Knies trash talk in a Marner thread is pure psyops campaign.

 

[HolyCrap]

Anybody watching both series could see Knies and Willy were the most dangerous Leafs until Willy did his best Nylander. Played well above his pay grade, unlike some. Gonna get paid big time now.

Crazy enough the marner cucks are still here defending how great he is. Best part about marner being gone is his fanbase leaving with him.

 

[Niagara Bill]

He also said he wants JT100% back. Bérubé is obviously a 100% run it back guy.

He must publically say these things because they may happen. Not his decision.

 

[Racer88]

I don't think he'd be in trouble at all under any circumstances because he played well in the playoffs.

Knies trash talk in a Marner thread is pure psyops campaign.

I pretty much agree with you. The point I was trying to make was that the price point of the two makes all the difference in the world

 

[Gabriel426]

teams need a mixture of players , did the Hawks trade Kane because he was small and weak and didn't bang in the corners ? of course not , what they did was build a gritty team which maximized his skill set

Kane can actually score goals and don’t shrink when the going gets tough in the playoffs.

Did the Sharks trade Marleau and Thornton when they didn’t have regular season and playoffs success, they didn’t. They continue to build around those two and maximized their skill set, and ended up with ONE cup appearance and Two WCF.

Did the Panthers continue to build on their President Trophy winning team when they see the players can’t do it in the playoffs. They didn’t, they traded away their 115pts leading scorer winger whom at that time was destined to play on LW with McD on Team Canada, plus a puck moving 1st pairing RD who can also play on the left side in his prime plus a 1st rounder for Tkuchuk. They ended up going to back to back Finals and winning One.

 

[seventieslord]

I feel like Toronto almost needs to directly overpay for Florida’s Bennett and Ekblad just to change the delta between the two franchises. Like there’s additional value in damaging and disassembling their pieces as much as it is about getting better.

So Bennett is welcome again?