Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[TheGreenTBer]

I think the most alarming thing about that play is that is two atrocious defensive plays just seconds apart.

The pass is idiotic and ill-fated, and maybe worse than the decision to attempt such a thing is that it certainly looks like the choice stemmed from the same old boogeyman that has haunted Marner every post-season: cowardice. It looks like the reason he made that dim-witted pass was because, as usual, he wanted to avoid contact.

What is truly unforgivable, to me, is that after his ghastly giveaway, his backcheck on the play wouldn't be acceptable for an exhibition game.

It seems like he is so fragile that after making the terrible pass, he seems to have just given up on the play altogether.

His effort on that play is totally unacceptable.

Yet he still has people white-knighting him at every opportunity, with the common defense being whataboutism, as if the rest of the core being underachievers someone absolves Marner of also being one.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Idk about that

Marner doesn’t seem to wanna come back. Look at the response he gave to the question of coming back vs JT.

Marner said he hasn’t thought about it and he’s loved his time being a leaf. Doesn’t answer the question and sorta sidesteps it

Also here's the thing, I think we can agree that Marner is insecure, he has a hard time handling the pressure, especially when things go wrong. But .... there are a million reasons for him to stay.

I think what'll happen is Shanahan/Tre/Berube or whoever else will go hold his hand, tell him how much they love him and need him, and then he'll stay. He wants to feel loved, held, coddled etc., Dubas was so good at that, maybe they'll ask him for some tips.

I think deep down, playing here is still his dream, once he gets the positive reinforcement he craves, he'll sign.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Prediction:
Marner will be back, and by November we will see the same posts we've been reading for years about how Marner's supercrazyelite, and anyone who dares to bring up playoffs will be berated for disturbing people for talking about playoffs during the regular season. They will also be told that they don't understand hockey because they obviously can't appreciate the greatness that's right in front of them. You hate to see it, but I can see it coming.

I might have agreed there was a possibility prior to game 7.

It got downright ugly after that. He was being booed by the hometown fans when he touched the puck and had his family threatened on social media after the game.

I can't see him recovering from that, no matter how much he loves the city and his teammates.

 

[Antropovsky]

I don’t see any of our Leaf players being particularly focused on fitness other than Nylander who clearly turned himself into a tank with associated play style evolution.

Matthews seemed to be bigger and more powerful in previous years but this year he was a lot leaner and more shy in traffic (and hurt yada yada).

Matthews may have some of the biggest legs in hockey. Hes put in the work. Marner has twigs.

Injuries have been a problem. Another reason why he shouldn't be the one stepping in when marner gets filled in after whistle beside the net. Marner should be more aware of his surroundings especially if he chooses to stand in front of the net after a whistle. It was a cheap shot by Suter but even still players need to be ready and bracing themselves and looking around themselves when they're near the opposing net. Suter was probably shocked how far Marner flew, in relation to any other NHL player he has done that too.

 

[Aashir]

Also here's the thing, I think we can agree that Marner is insecure, he has a hard time handling the pressure, especially when things go wrong. But .... there are a million reasons for him to stay.

I think what'll happen is Shanahan/Tre/Berube or whoever else will go hold his hand, tell him how much they love him and need him, and then he'll stay. He wants to feel loved, held, coddled etc., Dubas was so good at that, maybe they'll ask him for some tips.

I think deep down, playing here is still his dream, once he gets the positive reinforcement he craves, he'll sign.

Maybe, but the relation with the fans is so far gone it’s getting pretty bad

apparently he was booed for most of the third in game 7. Fans don’t treat hi as the hometown boy anymore.

I guess where we disagree is that you believe he wants positive reinforcement from anywhere, I believe it would only work if it came from the fans, which won’t happen barring something like a 9M dollar steal of a contract.

A lot can happen in 6 weeks. He may be more receptive to returning after things die down and he has some time for reflection.

That’s true as I am mostly basing my opinion on how things are right now and have been in the past.

 

[KAWAIlllI]

AM to Rangers for the real JT plus picks would be amazing. Then trade Reilly for picks and Marchessualt from Preds. Add Bennett, Ekblad, Marchand and Brown from UFA and resign our own JT for 3C.

Team should be a lot tougher mentally.

I dunno, thinking a deal with La A could fetch a more interesting package of players - Kempe, Byfield, Turcotte, Clarke etc

 

[Gabriel426]

I dunno, thinking a deal with La A could fetch a more interesting package of players - Kempe, Byfield, Turcotte, Clarke etc

Package wise, i think LA offers better and more ready players.

BUT JT Miller is an alpha and I think Leafs can use him more than a combination of Kempe, Byfield...

 

[ACC1224]

Maybe, but the relation with the fans is so far gone it’s getting pretty bad

apparently he was booed for most of the third in game 7. Fans don’t treat hi as the hometown boy anymore.

I guess where we disagree is that you believe he wants positive reinforcement from anywhere, I believe it would only work if it came from the fans, which won’t happen barring something like a 9M dollar steal of a contract.



That’s true as I am mostly basing my opinion on how things are right now and have been in the past.

No doubt it looks right now like he has no interest in returning and if the deadline to decide was urgent he'd be gone.

Time heals though, the team will make their pitch as will his wife and teammates and then they'll decide.
He'll also have other teams in his ear telling him the grass is greener, same as last summer.
6 weeks is a long time, things will die down and he'll make his decision. I'd put the odds at 50/50.

 

[Gabriel426]

Also here's the thing, I think we can agree that Marner is insecure, he has a hard time handling the pressure, especially when things go wrong. But .... there are a million reasons for him to stay.

I think what'll happen is Shanahan/Tre/Berube or whoever else will go hold his hand, tell him how much they love him and need him, and then he'll stay. He wants to feel loved, held, coddled etc., Dubas was so good at that, maybe they'll ask him for some tips.

I think deep down, playing here is still his dream, once he gets the positive reinforcement he craves, he'll sign.

But would MGT do that though?
What is the advantage of bringing them back?

Leafs will sell out regardless of whom are playing.
Knies is the driver of all jersey sells.

People kept going on about you can't replace 100pts. but with 11mil and PP1 time, I am sure they can get a new player to put up 70-80pts. Then it is just replacing 20-30pts which can be spread out among Willie, AM, Knies, Domi and McMann, thats really only 4-6 pts more among those 5 players. And considering AM had a down season, I am sure he can cover those 20-30pts decrease all by himself.

Then you look at playoffs and the lasting image will always be 6-1 blowout of Game 7.

 

[banks]

Years from now there will be debates about whether Marner jilted the Leafs by walking or if Leafs fans ran Marner out of town.

Let it be known, we ran him out of town.

You suck, Marner. Booooooo! Go away and don't come back!

 

[frizzer1]

Best thing for him and the team would be a sign and trade, or
Sign without a no trade clause.

 

[Gabriel426]

For all the talk about depth being and excuse for our top guys not to lead the Leafs to advance in playoffs.
Oilers are currently using
Hyman, Brown, Klingberg, and even Kap in the playoffs.

Guys who were deemed not good enough to be depth on the Leafs.

 

[thewave]

Years from now there will be debates about whether Marner jilted the Leafs by walking or if Leafs fans ran Marner out of town.

Let it be known, we ran him out of town.

You suck, Marner. Booooooo! Go away and don't come back!

It'll be about a middle aged president of hockey operations obsession to create a core group of players that would work through adversity and win a cup together. The problem was that and the money puck GM part of his little fantasy were just the delusions of a man who was better off channeling his male menopause by buying a sports car.

 

[ULF_55]

So what you are saying is that Nylander and Marner cannot drive their own lines!!! Regardless of wingers they should be able to produce and make those around them that much better.

What you are saying is that our depth in the forward group is not built correctly to compliment our Core 4 outside of Knies. We are missing one more scoring type of winger.

So had we given Hyman his no trade clause like we like to hand out. Our lines would be as such:

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Knies-Tavares-Nylander
McMann-Domi-Patches\Robertson
Lorentz-Laughton-Jarnkrok
Kampf

Would that have a winning solution against Florida???

No I think marner and Nylander would both do better if they played with 4th. line scrubs.

Matthews himself doesn't need anyone like marner, Knies to play with that's why Berube had Ryan Reaves and Alex Steeves with him all year.

Okay, kidding aside, of course we are both being ridiculous here.

Leafs have proven in the playoffs they don't have either the correct combinations or the correct players together.

They continuously have come up short ... we both can read the results ... no debate required.

 

[WTFMAN99]

For all the talk about depth being and excuse for our top guys not to lead the Leafs to advance in playoffs.
Oilers are currently using
Hyman, Brown, Klingberg, and even Kap in the playoffs.

Guys who were deemed not good enough to be depth on the Leafs.

Dubas's cap mess ups meant that Hyman and Brown had to go...

Hyman we couldn't afford (plus mediocre playoff stats with us)
Brown was attached to move Zaitsev...that was kinda Lou's fault.
Klingberg's body was cooked with us

Kapanen....poor playoff showing vs CBJ, cleared some cap space and in an alternate universe, we're talking about Amirov, Knies, Cowan and Danford as big pieces as we move forward.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don't see him as the issue, I see him as the scapegoat.

Look around the league at the playoff scoring this year, there's like 10 players that are PPG, not only that but he's also in 7th in overall playoff scoring. Always playing against the best players and with a centre thay couldn't shoot and hasn't been right in two consecutive playoff series now.

This whole time we needed the cap to rise for our top heavy contracts to make sense and it's just about to, it will finally balance next year with a major increase and JT's 11M off the books.

There are currently 20 players who are over a PPG these playoffs. Nylander is one of them. Marner is not.

It's been pointed out a lot that Nylander got the heavy shutdown from Florida in the last five games. And speaking of playing with a less-than-great centre (or RW)....

 

[BlueForever75]

Has it ever happened in the NHL where a team has an upcoming free agent. They can give him max years but dont want him. So Toronto signs Marner for 8 yrs. Which only they can do. The deal is consummated with another team that would then have Marner traded to them for a package of players?

 

[notDatsyuk]

You gotta understand that these same Marner fanboys were taunting the "haters" for years saying Marner's gonna re-sign for huge money in Toronto, Leaf for life, first ballot HoF'er, his name / number in the rafters etc and the haters will just "froth" the entire time.

Seeing how it's gonna end with Mitch embarrassing himself right out the door I'm gonna expect the coping is going to look quite pathetic. This was a terrible player to invest your faith in.

You left out ' his statue added to Legends Row'.

 

[ULF_55]

Bringing Marner back might not be the end of the team but unless they can convince Matthews to move off his no trade bringing the core plus Reilly back will be the end of hope for any playoff success

It is a 2 line team, and yes if they do not change something everything rests on the other team(s) failure, rather than the Leafs success.

Who is the leading scorer for the Panthers right now?

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Yeah, almost as many points in the playoffs as he had in the regular season.

Leafs need someone else besides the "Core 4" to step up.
Treliving has his work cut out for him.

 

[ACC1224]

Has it ever happened in the NHL where a team has an upcoming free agent. They can give him max years but dont want him. So Toronto signs Marner for 8 yrs. Which only they can do. The deal is consummated with another team that would then have Marner traded to them for a package of players?

I've asked before which Division winner lets their leading ice time, all situation, leading scorer(by 20 points) who's still in his prime walk?
I don't think it's ever happened, perhaps this will be the first time?

 

[ULF_55]

There’s a bunch of cheap UFAs that the Leafs can plug in for the upcoming season: Granlund, Boeser, Ehlers (not super cheap) Mangiapane, Duchene, Roslovic, Appleton, Donato, Kylington, Connor Brown etc. Also - trade for others.

Not sure how much one should trust those Dany Heatley-tweets (why would he lie though..), but if one does, you should trade Matthews now (try at least - LA and Rangers would give up a ton) and don’t sign Tavares and Marner. If you don’t know what I’m speaking of, look it up, it’s very telling…

Been in that boat several times. After the lock-out there were several posters looking longingly at it ... but MLSE said NOPE!

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I've asked before which Division winner lets their leading ice time, all situation, leading scorer(by 20 points) who's still in his prime walk?
I don't think it's ever happened, perhaps this will be the first time?

It might not be a matter of "let"; he might want a fresh start regardless. We don't know for sure.

 

[ULF_55]

Some Say JT is a top centre, some say he,s a 3rd liner. lol,

Obviously, Tavares is on the decline but he was 2nd. on team for scoring and 4th. for points, with a 58% at the dot.

Love to have that on the 3rd. line eh?

 

[notDatsyuk]

It makes sense. For years, Marner’s been a huge playoffs dud, and this year he held out on signing a new deal with you guys until after the playoffs, knowing well that this playoff run would be very scrutinised. Ofc he disappears again, but this time he was directly responsible for 3-4 goals in the last few games, and had the audacity to call out others on his team for not performing, when he himself had like 3 shots on goal and highlight turnovers in the last 4 games.

He has an A on his jersey. He believes that he should be paid like the best players in the league. He markets himself as a hometown hero, so why doesn’t he sign a team friendly deal instead of putting his team and fans in this position? He did not deliver on his last deal. He did not change the narrative that he’s a playoff ghost. He’s blaming others than himself.

And now, if I read this correctly, M&M are calling out Nylander, of all people. He’s a little kid, tailing his big bro Matthews, and I can’t understand why any leaf fan would want him after all this time.

Matthews said there were too many passengers, and Marner agreed. "Too many passengers" plural. It's the Marner fans who are trying to make it all about Nylander.

 

[hockeynorth]

What can you even get in a sign and trade? A third?