Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[ToneDog]

Neither would Nylander, Tavares, Matthews, Rielly and the players we got in exchange.

And they might have some playoff success and maybe a cup.

 

[notbias]

Winger Willy Nylander put up 98 points last year on 40 goals and it earned him $11.50 mil X 8 years

View attachment 1014220

Winger Mitch Marner currently has 99 points this year on 26 goals.

View attachment 1014222

How many more Millions does Marner want for currently 1 more point than Willy produced?

PS. Mikko Rantanen just re-signed for $12 mil AAV X 8 years and he has had multiple 100+ point seasons. Lets not forget our GM Treliving was willing to deal Marner for Rantanen 1-1 at the TD.

View attachment 1014223

Based on comparables both internal and external it would seem Marner is due for a raise up to $11.75 mil X 8 years (full term).

His better all around play and bigger track record is likely worth $3 million more per year...

Marner is going to be a steal... love that you agree Mess, good job on coming around.

 

[ToneDog]

He might be. He might also be Marner, or someone else entierly.

That is my point when you only look at the numbers. You need to also know what other intangibles a player brings.

 

[ToneDog]

$13M is going to be a steal within 2-3 years. McDavid will get $15-16M and that will set the next wave of the Bedards and Celebrini's to make $13M nothing special. It was the same thing when Benn, Seguin, Toews and Kane signed.

Maybe with a $130+m cap, but it will be more digestible as the cap rises. Thing is he odds are he leaves without playoff success and they will likely get Florida in round #2 which is probably their worst matchup.

 

[Antropovsky]

Don Cherry on Marner resigning:

“It depends on how he does in the playoffs,” Cherry said. “If he gets a bunch of goals, I think he will stay.

”I think if he gasses like he did the last three times, I don’t think he will stay.”

Don hasnt been reading this board enough, he doesnt seem to understand that Marner is a pass first playmaker who shouldnt be judged on goals.

 

[Confucius]

$13M is going to be a steal within 2-3 years. McDavid will get $15-16M and that will set the next wave of the Bedards and Celebrini's to make $13M nothing special. It was the same thing when Benn, Seguin, Toews and Kane signed.

Why are we comparing with McDavid who leads the league in most points per playoff game avg, when Mitch ranks 18th. Would it not be more accurate to compare him with current players that have amassed similar numbers, such as
Aho, Guentzel, Marchand

 

[tuckerintensity]

Winger Willy Nylander put up 98 points last year on 40 goals and it earned him $11.50 mil X 8 years

View attachment 1014220

Winger Mitch Marner currently has 99 points this year on 26 goals.

View attachment 1014222

Marner's equivalent today at Willie's cap percentage when he signed is 13.15 million per year. And Mitch is a better player. I'm not sure you want to play this game.

NHL & WHA Career Playoff Leaders and Records for Points Per Game | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Wayne Gretzky (1.837), 2. Mario Lemieux (1.607), 3. Connor McDavid (1.581), 4. Barry Pederson (1.529), 5. Leon Draisaitl (1.459), 6. Nathan MacKinnon (1.295), 7. Mark Messier (1.250), 8. Mikko Rantanen (1.247), 9. Bobby Orr (1.243), 10. Mike Bossy (1.240)

www.hockey-reference.com

Amongst active players Mitchranks 18th in playoff points per game avg.
behind players such as Marchand, Guentzel, Aho etc etc. let’s pay him accordingly.

And amongst goal per game it is only worse
Mathew’s ranks 10th with current players
Jt ranks 22nd
William ranks 24th
Mitch doesn’t appear on the list as there are only 55 current players on the list of all time 250 best.

Firstly, no one is paid off of playoff production, no matter how much anyone wants to make that a thing.

Mostly though, I honestly can't tell if you're trying to pretend that 18th overall is bad. Further, he's actually even with Marchand, but they go to three decimals on this list (but not in their main player pages). Further yet, he's ahead of the following players (active): Tkachuk, Giroux, Barkov, Stamkos, Kopitar, Forsberg. He's ahead of the other following playoff performers of this generation: Zetterberg, Toews, St. Louis, Iginla, Bergeron. It's all to say, again, this idea that he's (and/or Matthews are) a disaster is ill founded.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner's equivalent today at Willie's cap percentage when he signed is 13.15 million per year. And Mitch is a better player. I'm not sure you want to play this game.


Firstly, no one is paid off of playoff production, no matter how much anyone wants to make that a thing.

Mostly though, I honestly can't tell if you're trying to pretend that 18th overall is bad. Further, he's actually even with Marchand, but they go to three decimals on this list (but not in their main player pages). Further yet, he's ahead of the following players (active): Tkachuk, Giroux, Barkov, Stamkos, Kopitar, Forsberg. He's ahead of the other following playoff performers of this generation: Zetterberg, Toews, St. Louis, Iginla, Bergeron. It's all to say, again, this idea that he's (and/or Matthews are) a disaster is ill founded.

Sounds high. I thought it would be closer to $12.5m. 13% on a 95.5m cap = 12.5m.

 

[Craig Button]

And they might have some playoff success and maybe a cup.

Nope not at all.

With how bad the officiating has been against the Leafs in the Playoffs.

We can have McDavid and MacKinnon and it wouldn’t make any difference

 

[Smif]

Why are we comparing with McDavid who leads the league in most points per playoff game avg, when Mitch ranks 18th. Would it not be more accurate to compare him with current players that have amassed similar numbers, such as
Aho, Guentzel, Marchand

Definitely not comparing him to McDavid. It's just an example of how salaries are climbing the ladder.

Imo, only cap percentage should be used.

 

[Craig Button]

And then you factor that Nylander plays on the second line. Things sort of change after that. Likely to the point where JT has extra goals, Marner has around 85pts and Nylander is closer to 100pts as a first liner.

it’s posts like these that I can’t help but laugh at the mental gymnastics people do to hypnotize themselves into believing something so stupid

 

[thewave]

Did you happen to notice the Sh% of the second line??

No I live in a world where I trust my eyes and can see the puck go in the net 45 times


I think that may have been my first poem.

 

[Funk21]

And he also isnt as good as Knies are you okay my friend ?? Dont watch the draft position none of that matters Knies is the better player right now and he could definitely use him as a comparable I’d do 88 all day

Slaf is also 1.5 years younger than Knies. I don’t look strictly at where they were drafted but Slaf is a high end power forward much like Knies but is younger and of a higher draft status. 8x8 is more than a fair comparison for Knies after his ELC. Montreal is a borderline playoff team while we are competing for an Atlantic Conference title. Just saying playing on the team and with the players Knies has had the opportunity too makes his point totals a little inflated. Great player don’t get me wrong but people suggesting 9 is just utter foolishness.

 

[Funk21]

Knies is not close to Johnston but I can see him comparing himself to more expensive, better players and the Leafs giving it to him. It is the Leafy thing to do.

Johnston

View attachment 1014182

Knies
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Furthermore, playing C vs winger is huge. I’d take a C all day long. Already blasted for all to hear but I wouldn’t go over 8x8.

 

[Funk21]

I doubt it's about the money. If we don't win by the time he is 31, we never will. He will go to a contender and will have made his money by 31. He is well paid considering he isn't a top 5 player.

When did Ovi win his cup? Around the same time you are suggesting that AM leave to chase with a contender.

First, if the cap continues to soar we will be in a great position especially if we have everybody locked up long term. Marner and Knies that is. I like some of the kids we have drafted it’s all dependent on if they can make the next step but I suspect we will certainly have more cap flexibility to land one of those big fishes in the near future.

 

[Superstar]

$13M is going to be a steal within 2-3 years. McDavid will get $15-16M and that will set the next wave of the Bedards and Celebrini's to make $13M nothing special. It was the same thing when Benn, Seguin, Toews and Kane signed.

It might be a steal if Marner is 21 years old. But it wasn't a steal either when he signed for almost $11 million on his last contract. I don't see paying Marner $13 mil from age 32 to 36 a steal.

 

[thewave]

It might be a steal if Marner is 21 years old. But it wasn't a steal either when he signed for almost $11 million on his last contract. I don't see paying Marner $13 mil from age 32 to 36 a steal.

Red flag! He is slow and plays scared. Imagine a slower MM and just as scared. It won't age well. JT is slow but he can body people when need be.

 

[Superstar]

Kucherov wasn't a post-ELC contract. He's irrelevant. Eichel was, but he also wasn't the same caliber of player, and Buffalo had tons of room to pay extra for term. 5 years is actually the most common term for high-end post-ELC contracts, and Matthews' cap hit percentage relative to term and pre-signing performance was consistent with post-ELC history. Same with Marner. There was nothing anomalous about the contracts.

Keeping telling yourself that...Matthews shook the norm at the time...there was a lot of news coverage about his contract...teams were locking their young promising players long term if they could, rfa or not...even Draisaitl signed for 8 years around that time.

 

[darrylsittler27]

When did Ovi win his cup? Around the same time you are suggesting that AM leave to chase with a contender.

First, if the cap continues to soar we will be in a great position especially if we have everybody locked up long term. Marner and Knies that is. I like some of the kids we have drafted it’s all dependent on if they can make the next step but I suspect we will certainly have more cap flexibility to land one of those big fishes in the near future.

The big fish is McDavid. Mathews isn't Ovi, not even close.

 

[Nineteen67]

He’s said all along he’s planning to sign him and he would be aware of how last years playoffs went.

What they do and what they said could be different. If he’s pushed out again this year the consensus among fans and media is they shouldn’t re-sign him.
It took until late July or training camp before people forgot about the playoff performance and began defending him. If he has another poor performance I’m not sure he afforded that luxury again.

 

[ToneDog]

Don Cherry on Marner resigning:

“It depends on how he does in the playoffs,” Cherry said. “If he gets a bunch of goals, I think he will stay.

”I think if he gasses like he did the last three times, I don’t think he will stay.”

Don hasnt been reading this board enough, he doesnt seem to understand that Marner is a pass first playmaker who shouldnt be judged on goals.

Cherry gets it. What are Marner's chances of getting a bunch of goals? I don't think he as scored more than 2 goals in a series. 11 in 57 games. 15.8 goal pace and he wants $13-$14m. The guy and his camp have no shame.

 

[Gary Nylund]

When did Ovi win his cup? Around the same time you are suggesting that AM leave to chase with a contender.

First, if the cap continues to soar we will be in a great position especially if we have everybody locked up long term. Marner and Knies that is. I like some of the kids we have drafted it’s all dependent on if they can make the next step but I suspect we will certainly have more cap flexibility to land one of those big fishes in the near future.

Our D is locked in and old as f***. Add in the fact that the cupboards are bare, and great shape isn't how I'd describe where it looks like we'll be a couple of years from now.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Sounds high. I thought it would be closer to $12.5m. 13% on a 95.5m cap = 12.5m.

And 14% is 13.4... it's math, not made up.

 

[ToneDog]

And 14% is 13.4... it's math, not made up.

Never claimed it was made up. Did not understand how you came up with the number given you said, Marner's equivalent today at Willie's cap percentage and I thought Willie's cap percentage was closer to 13%.

 

[notbias]

Don Cherry on Marner resigning:

“It depends on how he does in the playoffs,” Cherry said. “If he gets a bunch of goals, I think he will stay.

”I think if he gasses like he did the last three times, I don’t think he will stay.”

Don hasnt been reading this board enough, he doesnt seem to understand that Marner is a pass first playmaker who shouldnt be judged on goals.

Did he sleep through both Tampa series? Understandable at his age.

Also, he was liked in recent years for his entertainment, not his hockey takes, not sure this is even appealing to authority anymore.

Also, brought to you by the man who wanted Ritchie over Nylander.

Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker now, it is sad.