Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[Zybalto]

Yeah whatever, saying he's worth 5 million tops is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off.

Not what I said at all.

I said outside of playing with Mac his numbers are just that and I also said he's probably going to pick that up in Dallas with their plethora of scoring forwards. I dont know about 12 million but the big worry was that his numbers were a product of Mac when the first trade happened wasnt it?

If he's not putting up points and especially scoring goals, his value plummets pretty quick. He's already picked it up in Dallas and if he has a decent playoffs, hes gonna look like a good pickup. All of a sudden getting pushed out of playing with the reigning Hart trophy winner (and contender this year) is gonna feel a little jarring for sure.

 

[IPS]

away from MacKinnon overall, Rantanen is, at best, a 5 million dollar player. This is not a good look.

Not what I said at all.

I said outside of playing with Mac his numbers are just that and I also said he's probably going to pick that up in Dallas with their plethora of scoring forwards. I dont know about 12 million but the big worry was that his numbers were a product of Mac when the first trade happened wasnt it?

If he's not putting up points and especially scoring goals, his value plummets pretty quick. He's already picked it up in Dallas and if he has a decent playoffs, hes gonna look like a good pickup. All of a sudden getting pushed out of playing with the reigning Hart trophy winner (and contender this year) is gonna feel a little jarring for sure.

Not really much room for interpretation from what you said. Even his current numbers away from Mack don't have him as a $5M player, you're just being hyperbolic.

 

[Antropovsky]

2 more primary assists for Domi today, rather quickly after being put on a line with Nylander and Tavares.

Where those posters at trolling me at the beginning of the year for talking up Domi's playmaking? Ironically they're the same posters who think Marner is a playmaker and "pass first" player:

Last 2 seasons:
Domi - 1853 mins, 1.2 primary assists/60
Marner - 2160 mins, 1.06 primary assists/60

I've said it for years, Marners playmaking is overrated.

Meanwhile, Marner has just 3 5v5 primary assists in his past 28 games.

 

[arso40]

2 more primary assists for Domi today, rather quickly after being put on a line with Nylander and Tavares.

Where those posters at who made fun of me for talking up Domi's playmaking? There the same posters who think Marner is a playmaker and "pass first" player:

Last 2 seasons:
Domi - 1853 mins, 1.2 primary assists/60
Marner - 2160 mins, 1.06 primary assists/60

I've said it for years, Marners playmaking is overrated.

Meanwhile, Marner has just 3 5v5 primary assists in his past 28 games.

Marners the better goal scorer and the better player but domi is a pretty damn good passer

 

[Antropovsky]

Marners the better goal scorer and the better player but domi is a pretty damn good passer

..... is he though? His shots stat advanced stats are dreadful. Players cheating to Matthews, opens Marner up for easier shots.

Marners individual scoring chances, high danger scoring chances, fenwick, overall shots, and xgf are pathetic. Kucherov is a much better playmaker than Marner and EVEN his shot stats blow Marners out of the water.

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

..... is he though? His shots stat advanced stats are dreadful. Players cheating to Matthews, opens Marner up for easier shots.

Marners individual scoring chances, high danger scoring chances, fenwick, overall shots, and xgf are pathetic. Kucherov is a much better playmaker than Marner and EVEN his shot stats blow Marners out of the water.

I mean, sure. Mayyybe.

But Marner's OUR Pastrnak.. at least I don't think we're getting David....... so uh, maybe just try to enjoy it, ya..?? I don't think you have a choice 'til playoffs are over. So let's pull it together guys.

 

[notbias]

2 more primary assists for Domi today, rather quickly after being put on a line with Nylander and Tavares.

Where those posters at trolling me at the beginning of the year for talking up Domi's playmaking? Ironically they're the same posters who think Marner is a playmaker and "pass first" player:

Last 2 seasons:
Domi - 1853 mins, 1.2 primary assists/60
Marner - 2160 mins, 1.06 primary assists/60

I've said it for years, Marners playmaking is overrated.

Meanwhile, Marner has just 3 5v5 primary assists in his past 28 games.

Why do you pick and choose when you use primary points/assists per 60 with Marner?

Domi is also 5th in the league in that stat, and Marner is 10th...

Also, Marner is ahead of him this year... had to include last year just to try to prove your point.

You are becoming too repetitive, boring, and sad.

 

[Antropovsky]

Why do you pick and choose when you use primary points/assists per 60 with Marner?

Domi is also 5th in the league in that stat, and Marner is 10th...

Also, Marner is ahead of him this year... had to include last year just to try to prove your point.

You are becoming too repetitive, boring, and it is becoming sad.

Uhh whenever I used just last season of Domi's assists stats I was told by the Marner folk that "too small of a sample size". Now using 1800 mins and I'm told too much data...

 

[Zybalto]

Not really much room for interpretation from what you said. Even his current numbers away from Mack don't have him as a $5M player, you're just being hyperbolic.

He had rough numbers away from Mac on the Avs and he's got 2 5v5 goals in 31 games since the trade.

Since the start of the 2022 season with the Avs:

On ice numbers 5v5:
MacKinnon with Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 3.76

MacKinnon without Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 3.95

Rantanen without MacKinnon:
Goals for/60: 2.72

Rantanen since the trade:
Goals for/60: 2.37


Over the last 3 playoffs 5v5:
MacKinnon with Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 3.36

MacKinnon without Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 4.86

Rantanen without MacKinnon:
Goals for/60: 2.52

Nothing hyperbolic there and not a massive slam on Rantanen either. Hes got great PP production so he's still scoring huge goals and putting up huge numbers, he just needs the right linemates to even out his production to justify him as a 12 million dollar scoring winger. You could even split up his Carolina/Dallas numbers to show hes in a better environment. He's got better defensive numbers since moving from the Avs as well.

 

[Antropovsky]

He had rough numbers away from Mac on the Avs and he's got 2 5v5 goals in 31 games since the trade.

Since the start of the 2022 season with the Avs:

On ice numbers 5v5:
MacKinnon with Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 3.76

MacKinnon without Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 3.95

Rantanen without MacKinnon:
Goals for/60: 2.72

Rantanen since the trade:
Goals for/60: 2.37


Over the last 3 playoffs 5v5:
MacKinnon with Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 3.36

MacKinnon without Rantanen:
Goals for/60: 4.86

Rantanen without MacKinnon:
Goals for/60: 2.52

Nothing hyperbolic there and not a massive slam on Rantanen either. Hes got great PP production so he's still scoring huge goals and putting up huge numbers, he just needs the right linemates to even out his production to justify him as a 12 million dollar scoring winger. You could even split up his Carolina/Dallas numbers to show hes in a better environment. He's got better defensive numbers since moving from the Avs as well.

Pretty much thr Matthews effect on Marner.

 

[notbias]

Uhh whenever I used just last season of Domi's assists stats I was told by the Marner folk that "too small of a sample size". Now using 1800 mins and I'm told too much data...

Why'd you settle on two seasons?

One season = Marner > Domi
Two seasons = Domi > Marner
Three seasons = Marner > Domi (Marner is 1st in the league during this timeframe)

I think I know why you chose two seasons...

Your stats fall apart after even a little research, it is pathetic.

 

[thusk]

2 more primary assists for Domi today, rather quickly after being put on a line with Nylander and Tavares.

Where those posters at trolling me at the beginning of the year for talking up Domi's playmaking? Ironically they're the same posters who think Marner is a playmaker and "pass first" player:

Last 2 seasons:
Domi - 1853 mins, 1.2 primary assists/60
Marner - 2160 mins, 1.06 primary assists/60

I've said it for years, Marners playmaking is overrated.

Meanwhile, Marner has just 3 5v5 primary assists in his past 28 games.

Nylander scoring goal at a rate of 1,17 goal/ 60 and robertson at a rate of 1,15/ 60 or Mcmann at 1,11 at 5v5 last 2 year...So Nylander scoring ability is overrated...

That's the same f***ing bullshit...

You can say what you want to stats, but stats mean nothing when you're unable to use it correctly

 

[Antropovsky]

Why'd you settle on two seasons?

One season = Marner > Domi
Two seasons = Domi > Marner
Three seasons = Marner > Domi (Marner is 1st in the league during this timeframe)

I think I know why you chose two seasons...

Your stats fall apart after even a little research, it is pathetic.

Because Domi has been on this team for 2 seasons? Seems pretty logical to me.

 

[notbias]

Because Domi has been on this team for 2 seasons? Seems pretty logical to me.

So you only compare players on the same team?

You chose 2 years for a very simple reason, it is the only argument that is bad for Marner, even then, it is not bad...

 

[Antropovsky]

Nylander scoring goal at a rate of 1,17 goal/ 60 and robertson at a rate of 1,15/ 60 or Mcmann at 1,11 at 5v5 last 2 year...So Nylander scoring ability is overrated...

That's the same f***ing bullshit...

You can say what you want to stats, but stats mean nothing when you're unable to use it correctly

Nobody’s ever accused Nylander of being just a sniper—he’s a fantastic playmaker too.

And don’t tell me Marner supporters haven’t been using the excuse that his dreadful shot stats are because he’s a “playmaker” or a “pass-first winger.”

 

[Dekes For Days]

You'd think that's the case, but based on some of these arguments, it doesn't seem to be...ie. cap is up to $95.5 mil...Marner should get x% of the cap, therefore, he should be paid $13 mil, etc...which is ridiculous...he should be around where Rantanen got paid, that's probably his closest comparable...which is $12 mil....all this talk about him wanting $14 mil is crazy on his part...he's not negotiating in good faith, he knows the cap is up, and wants to take a huge chunk off it and get paid more than he's worth...I don't think any team is paying him $14 mil in the open market this summer.

Every argument is based on Marner getting x% of the cap and increase, not a disproportionate amount. He's not looking to get paid more than he's worth. He's just looking to get what he's worth like anybody else, and there are unfortunately some people who refuse to acknowledge his worth. He is better and worth more than Rantanen. We don't know what he's asking, but 13m, or more, is not ridiculous in any way. Marner would get paid a ton on the open market.

 

[Antropovsky]

Every argument is based on Marner getting x% of the cap and increase, not a disproportionate amount. He's not looking to get paid more than he's worth. He's just looking to get what he's worth like anybody else, and there are unfortunately some people who refuse to acknowledge his worth. He is better and worth more than Rantanen. We don't know what he's asking, but 13m, or more, is not ridiculous in any way. Marner would get paid a ton on the open market.

Marner is better and worth more than Rantanen?

Rantanen:


Marner:

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner is better and worth more than Rantanen?

Yep.

 

[IPS]

He had rough numbers away from Mac on the Avs and he's got 2 5v5 goals in 31 games since the trade.

And Antropovsky just posted that Marner has just 3 5v5 primary assists in his past 28 games.

Players go through shitty stretches, especially when they're changing teams/scenery. What is your point? Sample size brother.

 

[thusk]

Nobody’s ever accused Nylander of being just a sniper—he’s a fantastic playmaker too.

And don’t tell me Marner supporters haven’t been using the excuse that his dreadful shot stats are because he’s a “playmaker” or a “pass-first winger.”

and who's telling marner is only a playmaker???

Since hes in the NHL

M.Tkachuk + 20 goal in - 13 game
jt miller + 2 goal more goal + 7 game
giroux - 21 goal in + 33 game
kopitar - 23 goal + 33 game
Larkin -2 goal - 4 game
konecny -22 goal - 12 game
oreilly - 30 in -3 game

 

[notbias]

And Antropovsky just posted that Marner has just 3 5v5 primary assists in his past 28 games.

Players go through shitty stretches, especially when they're changing teams/scenery. What is your point? Sample size brother.

Marner has 8 5v5 goals during that time...

 

[IPS]

Marner has 8 5v5 goals during that time...

Ok?

 

[Zybalto]

Pretty much thr Matthews effect on Marner.

Regular season you are correct but when Marner splits from Matthews, he takes on the tougher comp allowing Matthews to feed. In all three scenarios, the lines are above 60% goal differential due to defensive acumen. The playoffs has been a bit different.

Over the last 3 playoffs 5v5:
Marner with Matthews:
Goals for/60: 3.53
Goals Against/60: 2.06

Marner without Matthews:
Goals for/60: 2.39
Goals Against/60: 1.18

Matthews without Marner:
Goals for/60: 1.66
Goals Against/60: 2.06

Both Marner and especially Matthews drop quite a bit offensiely when split up in the playoffs although Marner has an insanely low goals against. The main argument in keeping Matthews and Marner together is that Matthews has been pretty brutal away from Marner and they are a rock solid first line 5v5 in the playoffs. The whole team has blown chunks on the PP though.

And Antropovsky just posted that Marner has just 3 5v5 primary assists in his past 28 games.

Players go through shitty stretches, especially when they're changing teams/scenery. What is your point? Sample size brother.

I agree and said as much earlier.

 

[LeafEgo]

Marners the better goal scorer and the better player but domi is a pretty damn good passer

He is, but he has a knack for screwing up 2 on 1s. Dude needs to take 10,000 laps down the ice and actually shoot it, so that he has the traditional two options going forward.

 

[notbias]

Ok?

There is a slight difference in the "struggles"