Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[saffronleaf]

Are we all finally in agreement, you can't win with 3 or 4 $11 million contracts?

well, not if two of them suck ass

 

[LeafEgo]

in what world would it ever make sense to offer more than the threshold for four first round picks. you take the four firsts if a team is stupid enough to pay more than that threshold. granted that threshold was something like 10.5, but still.

Superstars like Makar are worth a lot more than four late firsts, yet somehow he was signed for only 9M . . .

 

[FerrisRox]

Remember Mitch blocking shots and playing hard in the Washington series? Where did that Mitch go?

I remember him having one goal that post season.

This guy has had FOUR playoffs where he has scored one goal - or less - in the entire post season.

Enough is enough.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

if we are dealing with the Preds, we have to ask for Askarov. he is NHL ready, and will be a franchise goalie.
if you want a cup in Toronto, its Askarov, not Saros that would lead us there
Askarov and Fabbro would be good enough for me

Do you see Nashville trading Askarov, though? They were trying to trade Saros because they had Askarov ready to take over

I don't think it makes sense for them.

 

[sunstersun]

well, not if two of them suck ass

Replace Tavares and Marner with McDavid and Drai. Are we not winning 3 straight Stanley cups?

I'm all for balancing the team. I just don't think that's the right takeaway. It's totally possible to win with ok goaltending and not great D. the Penguins won without Letang(injured)

This would be a totally difference discussion if we could actually score goals and PP in the playoffs, but we still lost.

How can we say this doesn't work when these guys didn't actually do what they were paid to do?

If anything I'm convinced it can work. We're close and 2/4 of the 11mil players were frauds.

 

[saffronleaf]

Players come and go.

The sweater is what is forever.

i've grown past all attachments

Imagine there's no sports teams
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to boo or cheer for

 

[Community]

Are we all finally in agreement, you can't win with 3 or 4 $11 million contracts?

Disagree. We can't win with these 3 or 4 players at 11m+ and only 1 or 2 of them playing anywhere near their contract value.

Chsnge our core players to Matthews, Draisaitl, and McDavid? f*** yes.


Is it easier if your studs are signed to 8m contracts? Obviously. But the more talent the better.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Replace Tavares and Marner with McDavid and Drai. Are we not winning 3 straight Stanley cups?

I'm all for balancing the team. I just don't think that's the right takeaway. It's totally possible to win with ok goaltending and not great D. the Penguins won without Letang(injured)

This would be a totally difference discussion if we could actually score goals and PP in the playoffs, but we still lost.

How can we say this doesn't work when these guys didn't actually do what they were paid to do?

If anything I'm convinced it can work. We're close and 2/4 of the 11mil players were frauds.

Problem is finding yourself a Mcdavid an draisaitl lol

And we will see about nylander being worth 11m next year. 3 in 4 isn’t gonna cut it, even if they are goals. His expectations are 95+ RS + PPG playoffs.

Matthews had a game…one game where he looked worth his contract. Idgaf injuries or sick, he’s been “injured” every single year apparently.

Even the other two “supposed” performers, don’t really perform compared to league wide players, it’s just that Marner and Tavares are so awful 95% of top 6 players and even some third liners are better than them in the playoffs

 

[sunstersun]

Problem is finding yourself a Mcdavid an draisaitl lol

And we will see about nylander being worth 11m next year. 3 in 4 isn’t gonna cut it, even if they are goals. His expectations are 95+ RS + PPG playoffs.

Matthews had a game…one game where he looked worth his contract. Idgaf injuries or sick, he’s been “injured” every single year apparently.

Even the other two “supposed” performers, don’t really perform compared to league wide players, it’s just that Marner and Tavares are so awful 95% of top 6 players and even some third liners are better than them in the playoffs

A lot of playoff points are PP goals or assists. All of WIlly's contributions are 5on5 hockey with a deadweight centre.

I will say I'd be interested in Knies Domi and Nylander line, where we staple the advice just shoot it.

To be fair, if Marner and Tavares are really that bad and in the playoffs, which I think they are. It's not exactly surprising Nylander and Matthews also are underperforming. For points, I remember specifically a game in Florida where Willy set him Tavares for 5 grade A opportunities and he couldn't bury a single one.

From the eye test, Nylander has met the bill most of the time. Advanced stats seem to agree.

We'll see if Matthews and Nylander can get better still. I think they can. Linemates are a bad match stylistically and underperform in the postseason.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Not sure if this was posted or if people have seen it. Adam Oates on Marner:

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Oates is doing a whole lot of yapping in that clip.

 

[613Leafer]

Problem is finding yourself a Mcdavid an draisaitl lol

And we will see about nylander being worth 11m next year. 3 in 4 isn’t gonna cut it, even if they are goals. His expectations are 95+ RS + PPG playoffs.

Matthews had a game…one game where he looked worth his contract. Idgaf injuries or sick, he’s been “injured” every single year apparently.

Even the other two “supposed” performers, don’t really perform compared to league wide players, it’s just that Marner and Tavares are so awful 95% of top 6 players and even some third liners are better than them in the playoffs

I wouldn't necessarily say finding a McDavid/Draisaitl is the problem - more that you can't pay guys to play at that level and then have them not perform. Matthews/Marner were PAID as RFAs - but they don't take over series the way McDavid/Draisaitl, MacKinnon/Makar, Crosby/Malkin, etc do.

If they were both paid less (and not even at a discount, just on reasonable contracts relative to the market), expectations would be lower, and there'd have been more money to address goaltending, depth scoring, and defence. When we repeatedly lose in game 7s, that's the difference.

Marner's contract was ultimately his downfall. Matthews deserves similar criticism, but he wasn't quite as overpaid, he plays the more premium position, and when you watch him his style of play doesnt drive fans nuts the way Marner's "avoid contact at all costs" style does.

Nylander to your point will have a new contract next year. Same player, so no reason to expect him to be any better, but with his new contract, he'll be facing more criticism if he's putting up ~4-5 points in a 7 game series loss.

 

[leafs in five]

For points, I remember specifically a game in Florida where Willy set him Tavares for 5 grade A opportunities and he couldn't bury a single one.

game 2 v FLA

 

[LeafSteel]

Remember Mitch blocking shots and playing hard in the Washington series? Where did that Mitch go?

That Mitch went to the bank and liked it there .

Saros would be a huge mistake. you dont trade for a goalie who never wins in the playoffs, especially a small one expecting a contract bigger than they are
Askarov, all day, Saros, and we're screwed

No interest in Saros and would be a mistake.

Woll has shown a lot. We have Hildeby chomping at the bit and we have a couple of goalie prospects showing well too.

You sign UFA Stolarz to 1B with Woll. He will sign for less than Samsonov and much less than Saros as a UFA.

You see what Woll has, and you let Hildeby and the other goalie prospects force their way through.

Saris in a Marner trade would be an absolute waste. I really don’t feel any enthusiasm for anything Nashville has.

Much more interested in Utah (boy that feels weird saying), Seattle, Columbus, Vegas, Buffalo etc.

Do this right and it could be a really significant move and moment in correcting things here.

Get it wrong and we are losing a tremendous talent in Marner that could set us back.

He needs to go, but we need to do it right.

 

[Kazparov]

Not sure if this was posted or if people have seen it. Adam Oates on Marner:

Ok sure he is the whipping boy right now and yes it's a team sport so it's not all his fault. And sure Mitch gets tougher matchups than Willy.

It's not about that, it's about how he folds in the face of physical play. We haven't seen the Mitch who WANTS IT, out there. In the series against Boston a few years ago he wasn't producing well but he was out blocking shots, putting himself in harms way to win. Now he gets knocked down and instead of getting up he looks at the ref for justice.

If you're a leader on the team you can't be sending a message to your team by not fighting for position, and not getting up when you get knocked down.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Ok sure he is the whipping boy right now and yes it's a team sport so it's not all his fault. And sure Mitch gets tougher matchups than Willy.

It's not about that, it's about how he folds in the face of physical play. We haven't seen the Mitch who WANTS IT, out there. In the series against Boston a few years ago he wasn't producing well but he was out blocking shots, putting himself in harms way to win. Now he gets knocked down and instead of getting up he looks at the ref for justice.

If you're a leader on the team you can't be sending a message to your team by not fighting for position, and not getting up when you get knocked down.

Just sharing info. I found the most interesting part that Oates says Pastrnak wasn't Marner's responsibility at all because he just came off the bench. I don't know if I agree with that. Looking at that goal, it seems Pastrnak was no one's responsibility. Still angers me.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

i've grown past all attachments

Imagine there's no sports teams
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to boo or cheer for

I can get behind that except one attachment, I need it in bed

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Now he gets knocked down and instead of getting up he looks at the ref for justice.

Like that works?

Mitch isnt a sharp tool.

Mitch has to go. It's mostly for re-tool reasons. He can't really "play better" and solve the team's issues.

We spend too much on Forwards - especially right wing.

and ..

TRE picked Nylander over Marner.

 

[leafs in five]

really surprised to learn that Adam Oates talks like that

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Looking at that goal, it seems Pastrnak was no one's responsibility. Still angers me.

It was Rielly's responsibility for the dump in. The "perfect bounce" from the corner created the scoring chance ... which could have been easily solved by Samsonov. He choked.

 

[Nineteen67]

Not sure if this was posted or if people have seen it. Adam Oates on Marner:

Oates talking with the Marner camp? Mitchy was concerned about the media and threw his gloves?
Sums up Mitchy perfectly.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Imagine there's no sports teams
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to boo or cheer for

No Religion too.

 

[leafs in five]

oilers' big 2 are in another class but still I would rather spend 30+ on 3 good forwards than 2 good forwards and Nurse

 

[Nineteen67]

really surprised to learn that Adam Oates talks like that

Talks like that on Kypers show.

 

[Trapper]

oilers' big 2 are in another class but still I would rather spend 30+ on 3 good forwards than 2 good forwards and Nurse

Well eventually it will be those 2 good forwards and Bouchard. They can move Nurse in the future. Find a good goalie and they can have the big 2, D and goalie core.
That’s what I’d rather.