Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Gary Nylund]

Yeah I think the Leafs, if they are serious about extending Mitch, need to be like 11.5Mx8. You get the same deal Willy got. We can’t go any higher

I don't see him taking that either. Even if he accepted that he's not perceived as being worth more than Nylander (and I don't see that happening), the cap going up and him signing a year later would mean he gets more than Nylander even if their perceived value is the same.

Maybe they agree on 11.5x5 or something like that, hard to predict what's going to happen here but I guess we'll find out soon enough. And I do mean soon, I think everyone knows there's controversy here and I would think they want to get this settled before the season starts.

 

[Sypher04]

I don't see him taking that either. Even if he accepted that he's not perceived as being worth more than Nylander (and I don't see that happening), the cap going up and him signing a year later would mean he gets more than Nylander even if their perceived value is the same.

Maybe they agree on 11.5x5 or something like that, hard to predict what's going to happen here but I guess we'll find out soon enough. And I do mean soon, I think everyone knows there's controversy here and I would think they want to get this settled before the season starts.

Yeah less term does seem like a potential way around it. I don’t know.

I do agree they don’t want this looming over the season though.

 

[Hellcat]

You equating yourself with "any reasonable person" is comedy gold.

No I don't know where the term cream puff comes from, but it felt like it fit. I just looked it up though, here's a link, what's the problem?

A Beginner's Guide To Tiramisu - The Daily Meal

Tiramisu is an indulgent dessert from Italy that quickly became popular around the world. But what is this dessert and what makes it so special?

www.thedailymeal.com

I've also referred him as a cupcake, would you prefer I use that going forward? He's been called a lot worse, if you're this sensitive then I don't now what to say to you. But yes, it does seem like he can't handle the pressure, especially game 3 against Florida was the final straw for me that exposed him as a choker.

And BTW, where's the part where I said "you have to win a playoff series or you are garbage" or are even you having trouble finding a way to spin that one.

And finally, this was your original quote, where are you going show me where I actually said any of these things?

according to Gary those are the only games that count. First it was regular season does not count, then it moved you have to win a playoff series or you are garbage, then Gary further reduced to only games 5,6,7 count

Notice how I used your name specifically after the comma which assigns that action to you and never referred to you in that sentence before that comma? I think the problem here is reading skills or more specifically lack there of.

WOW, seriously you are now claiming that you are calling him a dessert, why didn't you call him an apple pie or a pound cake? So we are to believe you when you say hey I use words and phrases that I dont understand their meaning and to complete your act, you call me "too sensitive", when your mode operandi is to flame people and then when you feel backed into a corner you flag them to the Mods to get an infraction against them. BTW since your knowledge is lacking, a cream puff is a colloquial homophobic slur for an exceptionally feminine gay man. A puff is British slang for a gay man. I'm not sure which is worse dishonesty or ignorance. I'm done with your dog and pony show.

 

[AvroArrow]

I don't see him taking that either. Even if he accepted that he's not perceived as being worth more than Nylander (and I don't see that happening), the cap going up and him signing a year later would mean he gets more than Nylander even if their perceived value is the same.

Maybe they agree on 11.5x5 or something like that, hard to predict what's going to happen here but I guess we'll find out soon enough. And I do mean soon, I think everyone knows there's controversy here and I would think they want to get this settled before the season starts.

From Marners side it will be

"I got 10.9 and have clearly gotten better since that signing, I want a raise"

He's gotta face the reality that he wasn't worth that deal in the first place and he is not worth more than Nylander. His ego is too big so I don't see that happening. The regular season will be a lot more difficult without him, you gotta make the playoffs to win the cup, so his loss would be felt, but also using his cap space properly is probably worth more than keeping him at whatever his ridiculous ask is going to me.

 

[Fogelhund]

Marner's future, is really dependent upon what we get out of this team this year. Can Berube make them succeed? I can see Marner taking the same cap percentage as Nylander... but a slightly higher cap hit... That's pretty fair. I sure don't want something like a $12.5 mil deal or anything though.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He’s a blowhard but for once he’s not wrong.

He said signing Nylander made it 'the big four', although he was the first acquired and Tavares was the last, and he was the second to sign 'big' although his 'big' was small in comparison, and Marner was the fourth. Can't even get his facts straight.

He mentions that Marner says he wants to stay here, but no mention of the fact that Nylander has said the same thing, and seems more suited to the environment.

His only accurate statement is that his opinion is that Marner is better.

 

[Sypher04]

Marner's future, is really dependent upon what we get out of this team this year. Can Berube make them succeed? I can see Marner taking the same cap percentage as Nylander... but a slightly higher cap hit... That's pretty fair. I sure don't want something like a $12.5 mil deal or anything though.

Funny enough, Nylander’s deal adjusted for the higher cap (83 to 88 million) is already like 12.2 mil

 

[GoonieFace]

Interesting to see that Marner’s 0.88 pts/g playoff production is actually 22nd among all active NHL players. Matthews’ 0.87 is 23rd.

Only 12 active players are point per game or better.

Not surprising considering scoring in the first round of the playoffs is typically higher. Since the Leafs never make it past the first round, the opportunity for that stat to decrease is non existent.

As mentioned many times before, simply evaluating the number of points mean nothing. A lot of Marners points were accumulated in that shootout series in Tampa, where there were a couple of blowouts. He didn’t score a goal in back to back playoff series, that’s pathetic.

How many impactful playoff goals has he scored?

 

[Tak7]

There are some things I was let in on recently.

Fair enough - I won't press any further.

 

[Notsince67]

There are some things I was let in on recently.

Good on ya.
A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding.

 

[MCR74]

Maybe Conn Smythe winner ROR knows something first hand that the fans here do not?

Like what? Mitch will finally show up in the playoffs after signing for $13M? Obviously his current salary isn't enough to get him off his lazy ass.

 

[thewave]

Like what? Mitch will finally show up in the playoffs after signing for $13M? Obviously his current salary isn't enough to get him off his lazy ass.

Why I blame Skip the Dishes for that, and car jackers.

 

[ToneDog]

From Marners side it will be

"I got 10.9 and have clearly gotten better since that signing, I want a raise"

He's gotta face the reality that he wasn't worth that deal in the first place and he is not worth more than Nylander. His ego is too big so I don't see that happening. The regular season will be a lot more difficult without him, you gotta make the playoffs to win the cup, so his loss would be felt, but also using his cap space properly is probably worth more than keeping him at whatever his ridiculous ask is going to me.

He should talk to Johnny Hockey who turned down the Flames' offer.

I think he knows the Leafs would rather overpay than let him walk for nothing, hence why he wants to play out the season. Unless the Leafs show some backbone, he is going to take Tre to the woodshed like Nylander did.

 

[MCR74]

From Marners side it will be

"I got 10.9 and have clearly gotten better since that signing, I want a raise"

He's gotta face the reality that he wasn't worth that deal in the first place and he is not worth more than Nylander. His ego is too big so I don't see that happening. The regular season will be a lot more difficult without him, you gotta make the playoffs to win the cup, so his loss would be felt, but also using his cap space properly is probably worth more than keeping him at whatever his ridiculous ask is going to me.

I want to hear his definition "clearly gotten better".

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Interesting to see that Marner’s 0.88 pts/g playoff production is actually 22nd among all active NHL players. Matthews’ 0.87 is 23rd.

Only 12 active players are point per game or better.

Tbf I’d expect our 11.634 and 10.893 men to be two of those 12, probably higher up

It’s not even just the cap hit, it’s also the players talent level. Matthews and Marner based on pure talent should not be 22-23 in the league. Ffs Matthews just scored 69 goals and has averaged over 50 for his career. He should be able to give us a 45 goal pace every playoffs, probably more since he is in his prime. He’s also paced for 40 assists for his career, so we should be able to get that in the playoffs too

Marner finishes top 5-7 in assists/game every year since 18-19. He should be able to give us more than 2 assists in a series. He also has paced or got 30 goals every year since 20-21, he should be able to muster us more than 1 goal in a series

Even if Matthews made 10x8 and Marner 8.5x8, they’d be underperforming their talent, instead of their contract. These guys are superstars, the elite of the elite during the RS, why can’t they replicate a decent portion of it in the playoffs

 

[AvroArrow]

I want him to define "clearly gotten better".

I think he was at 69 points on the season when he signed that deal ? Big jump up in production but yeah, I assume that is gonna be his rationale in any potential negotiation.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I want to keep Marner, I'd still only offer 8 x 11. Nobody is going to give him north of 7 × 13, which even then is doubtful he'd take it. Having to move awY from family, friends, his new inlaws, his favourite team.

sure he won't jump on it until the 12th hour but he'd take it.

Just because William got 11.5, it won't cause him to leave the team.

I don't think they should sign Marner.

However, if they do want to go that route he's not taking less than 13.38% of the cap (in line with his previous deal). This means he will want a minimum of 12.3M per year (92M cap).

This also means

Matthews - 13.5
Nylander - 11.5
Marner - 12.3
Rielly - 7.5

44.8M in the core or 48% of the cap.

Now you have to extend Knies, Woll's extension kicks in, extend McCabe (or replace him), and replace Tavares. This is just to keep the same team.

This is a disaster waiting to happen and basically the Leafs are finished for the next 3-4 seasons if he's re-signed. A treadmill team. Their only way out is to restructure the cap and get rid of both Marner + Tavares.

 

[notDatsyuk]

https://thehockeynews.com/news/as-trouba-marner-and-tavares-remain-in-the-nhl-rumor-mill-they-deserve-respect

So it's "not fair" to force Trouba to give the list of 15 teams he's willing (or not willing) to be traded to? Even though that's in his contract.

He didn't say how Toronto plans to 'force' Marner to be traded, since he has a full NMC. He says they shouldn't force him, while the truth is that they can't.

I can agree that it might show a lack of respect for Tavares if they forcibly remove the 'C', but that has nothing to do with his contract.

All in all it seems to be just a click magnet.

 

[DarkKnight]

Marner's future, is really dependent upon what we get out of this team this year. Can Berube make them succeed? I can see Marner taking the same cap percentage as Nylander... but a slightly higher cap hit... That's pretty fair. I sure don't want something like a $12.5 mil deal or anything though.

If Berube can drill into Mitch “shoot instead of dishing to Edmundson”, I’ll be happy. Eliminate that, he will have success. Keefe tried to get him to shoot more, let’s see if Berube can keep it simple. If we look how St. Louis played, I expect a lot more shots to the net as opposed to the over fancy stuff.

 

[MCR74]

I think he was at 69 points on the season when he signed that deal ? Big jump up in production but yeah, I assume that is gonna be his rationale in any potential negotiation.

Surely, because 82 games is 82 games, right?

 

[AvroArrow]

Surely, because 82 games is 82 games, right?

Not sure what this means, but I believe he had 69 points in 82 games when he signed his deal. I could be wrong, but I believe that was the season.

 

[Tak7]

Marner's future, is really dependent upon what we get out of this team this year. Can Berube make them succeed? I can see Marner taking the same cap percentage as Nylander... but a slightly higher cap hit... That's pretty fair. I sure don't want something like a $12.5 mil deal or anything though.

Marner's cap hit if he were to take the same percentage of the cap as Nylander, would be
$12.1M.

 

[thewave]

Not sure what this means, but I believe he had 69 points in 82 games when he signed his deal. I could be wrong, but I believe that was the season.

Also a season that saw equipment changes lead to around 15% more goal production around the league. Maybe 20 it was a lot

 

[DarkKnight]

Also a season that saw equipment changes lead to around 15% more goal production around the league. Maybe 20 it was a lot

Nylander had 27 points in 54 that year. Great argument.

 

[socko]

10, 11, 12, 13 doesn't really matter. All of them add up to playoff failure.