Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[notbias]

Does anyone actually think Marner would sign a deal without a total nmc?

We just gave one to Tanev, I think anyone is allowed to ask for one at this point.

 

[Hellcat]

Copy/paste from my post you're responding to:

"a few games into the playoffs when teams settle down and start playing defence he becomes a non-factor."

That's why you trade him and to make it clear, here are numbers posted by someone else earlier:

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018
• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games
• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

Games 1-4: 37 pts in 31 gp (98 point pace over 82 games)

Games 5-7: 8 pts in 17 gp (39 point pace over 82 games)

You cant figure out why games 5 through 7 his production might be down? I'll give you some time to think about it.

 

[Hellcat]

Blaming only him is dumb. I don't know that many people are doing that but whatever. Marner's disappearing act is an annual event, he's a fraction of the player McDavid is, come on now.

Nobody gets a pass, plenty of blame to go around but Marner's at the top of my shit list and I do believe he deserves to be there.

The measurement was Marner disappears as the series goes on... McDavid did the very same thing but now McDavid gets a pass because of moving goal posts,,,,gotchya. McDavid has won the same number of cups over the last 8 years as teams that Mitch were on.. with much easier paths to the SCF.

Does anyone actually think Marner would sign a deal without a total nmc?

Not a chance.

 

[HarryLime]

Booooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Gabriel426]

Also Bill signed well before the deadline, would have been interesting if negotiations fell apart what happened. The Leafs caved all the way, that's a horrible deal and it makes Marner's more problematic.

In hindsight, if only Leafs waited for two more months, it will be a bit cheaper

 

[conFABulator]

Copy/paste from my post you're responding to:

"a few games into the playoffs when teams settle down and start playing defence he becomes a non-factor."

That's why you trade him and to make it clear, here are numbers posted by someone else earlier:

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018
• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games
• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

Games 1-4: 37 pts in 31 gp (98 point pace over 82 games)

Games 5-7: 8 pts in 17 gp (39 point pace over 82 games)

I want playoff success and it doesn't make sense to spend that much cap space on someone who gets smaller as the games get bigger. If he compiles points when there's no pressure and then turns into a creampuff when the pressure's on, what good is he?


Yeah, maybe he figures it out. For me it's just so hard to gamble on that considering his history. And it's not just a couple of years either, he's 5 years into a 6 year deal so the pattern is well established. Signing up for another 7/8 years of Marner seems like such a huge risk that it borders on being suicidal

If he'd sign for $10M, I'd probably do it. It's still a gamble but it would show a positive attitude adjustment on his part and I believe that whatever's holding him back is in his head so that's why I'd do it. I think there's zero chance of him taking that deal though, all these star players have egos, taking a discount is very rare and Marner especially seems to have a bigger ego than most (never admits he deserves any blame for our annual failures) so yeah, this isn't happening.

I disagree that we need to spend his cap on an equal value player. Spend it on say two 6 million dollar players or even three 4 million dollar players. Choose the right players and we have a much better balanced lineup, sounds good to me. And as I've said earlier, my main focus is playoffs and considering how badly he plays when the pressure is on, it would be hard to spend that cap elsewhere and not be a tougher out.

I think your response and reaction to this is the point I am making. If Mitch gave a hometown discount, and $10M for eight years is that, I think people might feel differently about him. He took us for too much money last time and that stings us still. If he shows that sort of commitment and sacrifice it could change the narrative and he has the power to do that. That or score 30 points in the next playoff

 

[DarkKnight]

So why is that then?

Why is that Mitch draws significantly more attention to himself in this regard than Matthews or Nylander? People just don't like his face or what?

Look how personal it is in here, seems so.

He'll ignore the logic of the situation. Always does.

Your never ending childish tantrums and you’re actually talking logic. My lord dude, you’re a beaut.

And zzzz right back at you, an amoeba is more insightful. lol. Checkers.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Copy/paste from my post you're responding to:

"a few games into the playoffs when teams settle down and start playing defence he becomes a non-factor."

That's why you trade him and to make it clear, here are numbers posted by someone else earlier:

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018
• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games
• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

Games 1-4: 37 pts in 31 gp (98 point pace over 82 games)

Games 5-7: 8 pts in 17 gp (39 point pace over 82 games)

I want playoff success and it doesn't make sense to spend that much cap space on someone who gets smaller as the games get bigger. If he compiles points when there's no pressure and then turns into a creampuff when the pressure's on, what good is he?


Yeah, maybe he figures it out. For me it's just so hard to gamble on that considering his history. And it's not just a couple of years either, he's 5 years into a 6 year deal so the pattern is well established. Signing up for another 7/8 years of Marner seems like such a huge risk that it borders on being suicidal

If he'd sign for $10M, I'd probably do it. It's still a gamble but it would show a positive attitude adjustment on his part and I believe that whatever's holding him back is in his head so that's why I'd do it. I think there's zero chance of him taking that deal though, all these star players have egos, taking a discount is very rare and Marner especially seems to have a bigger ego than most (never admits he deserves any blame for our annual failures) so yeah, this isn't happening.

I disagree that we need to spend his cap on an equal value player. Spend it on say two 6 million dollar players or even three 4 million dollar players. Choose the right players and we have a much better balanced lineup, sounds good to me. And as I've said earlier, my main focus is playoffs and considering how badly he plays when the pressure is on, it would be hard to spend that cap elsewhere and not be a tougher out.

Did you notice how they all keep repeating the same disproven talking points over and over and over again? It's an obvious tell of an influencer. So transparent.

Look how personal it is in here, seems so.


Your never ending childish tantrums and you’re actually talking logic. My lord dude, you’re a beaut.

And zzzz right back at you, an amoeba is more insightful. lol. Checkers.

Ah, the same attempted insult again. So boring. So transparent.

The measurement was Marner disappears as the series goes on... McDavid did the very same thing but now McDavid gets a pass because of moving goal posts,,,,gotchya. McDavid has won the same number of cups over the last 8 years as teams that Mitch were on.. with much easier paths to the SCF.



Not a chance.

WOW. You actually think this is an "argument"?

 

[DarkKnight]

I think your response and reaction to this is the point I am making. If Mitch gave a hometown discount, and $10M for eight years is that, I think people might feel differently about him. He took us for too much money last time and that stings us still. If he shows that sort of commitment and sacrifice it could change the narrative and he has the power to do that. That or score 30 points in the next playoff

Unfortunately his agent is a rattlesnake. The best thing Marner could do is take a discount, he’d be rewarded with endorsements instantly and fan sentiment would change.

 

[DarkKnight]

Did you notice how they all keep repeating the same disproven talking points over and over and over again? It's an obvious tell of an influencer. So transparent.


Ah, the same attempted insult again. So boring. So transparent.


WOW. You actually think this is an "argument"?

It isn’t an insult, it’s a stone cold fact. Your childish obsession ruins any intellectual engagement. Sorry for noticing. Anyways, stop engaging me then, I don’t need your likes, you reply to me, just get lost and enjoy the incel debating society. For me this is just a undergrad mob mentality thesis, nothing of any real merit.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

It isn’t an insult, it’s a stone cold fact. Your childish obsession ruins any intellectual engagement. Sorry for noticing. Anyways, stop engaging me then, I don’t need your likes, you reply to me, just get lost and enjoy the incel debating society. For me this is just a undergrad mob mentality thesis, nothing of any real merit.

You think you're taking the high road. You're not. A little self reflection is in order.

 

[DarkKnight]

You think you're taking the high road. You're not. A little self reflection is in order.

Projection bud. Caio.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

There's no chance Marner is taking a discount to stay here. There's some internal competition on our team and I'd be stunned if Mitch is making under Nylanders 11.5M.

I'd like to see Marner traded and its almost entirely about the money for me. If we have Nylander at 11.5M, that means we don't need Mitch. I'd hear the argument that Marner at 10.9M means we should've traded Willy. Too late now.

Chris Johnston or Mirtle, I forget, but they reported Willy was really upset how much less he made the other 3 forwards and was insistent he made more than Marner on his next deal. Marner was notably upset with Matthews 11.6M deal. And now, again, there is some perceived respect/peaking order where Marner is not going to willingly take a discount while in his prime, nor will he take less than 2 of his teammates when be sees himself as a top 5 winger in the game.

I'd like to see an end to the one upping of salaries. I dont think it should continue and I don't think we'll find success. If we have too many depth players over perform, it's actually a bad thing as we aren't set up to keep them.

For petes sate were not even winning the division. We need a secondary core of talent to build around with a little bit of money. Keeping Domi is a nice move but imagine we see a great year from Knies and let's say Lilegren (making it up for the purpose of conversation), a big raise to both would be rough.

Cap space efficiency is important. The other is results. We're not getting results over a sustained sample size of hundreds of games. It's time to look at the money and see where it can be better spent

 

[DarkKnight]

There's no chance Marner is taking a discount to stay here. There's some internal competition on our team and I'd be stunned if Mitch is making under Nylanders 11.5M.

I'd like to see Marner traded and its almost entirely about the money for me. If we have Nylander at 11.5M, that means we don't need Mitch. I'd hear the argument that Marner at 10.9M means we should've traded Willy. Too late now.

Chris Johnston or Mirtle, I forget, but they reported Willy was really upset how much less he made the other 3 forwards and was insistent he made more than Marner on his next deal. Marner was notably upset with Matthews 11.6M deal. And now, again, there is some perceived respect/peaking order where Marner is not going to willingly take a discount while in his prime, nor will he take less than 2 of his teammates when be sees himself as a top 5 winger in the game.

I'd like to see an end to the one upping of salaries. I could think it should continue and I don't think we'll find success. If we have too many depth players over perform, it's actually a bad thing as we aren't set up to keep them.

For petes sate were not even winning the division. We need a secondary core of talent to build around with a little bit of money. Keeping Domi is a nice move but imagine we see a great year from Knies and let's say Lilegren (making it up for the purpose of conversation), a big raise to both would be rough.

Cap space efficiency is important. The other is results. We're not getting results over a sustained sample size of hundreds of games. It's time to look at the money and see where it can be better spent

That is spot on, we’ve created this culture where it’s a revolving door of next man up. I don’t see a discount either, it would be the wise thing if he wants to retire a Leaf, has his number retired, hold records that won’t be surpassed (regular season), but that Nylander number is now on the board and he likely never takes less. The Dubas culture still lives with this team, perhaps it needs to end with Marner. I didn’t even blame Tre for Nylander really, his agent didn’t budge at all, he just used the team comparables. It’s a shame the GM situation was so messy last off season, we had windows that couldn’t be exploited, the new guy had so much to sift through, it couldn’t really happen.

 

[Gaberd2608]

I think just offer the same deal as Nylander. Im not convinced Marner is better. He may have better defense but Nylander is more durable and consistent I find. Nylander also has a certain intensity I dont see with Marner.

Any team offering the same as $11.5 x 8 years would have to offer $13.14 x 7 years. I know as a ufa teams get crazy but thats REALLY crazy. The teams Marner may consider going to likely dont have that kind of room or want to f*** up their cap like that as it will cause problems with their other stars.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

That is spot on, we’ve created this culture where it’s a revolving door of next man up. I don’t see a discount either, it would be the wise thing if he wants to retire a Leaf, has his number retired, hold records that won’t be surpassed (regular season), but that Nylander number is now on the board and he likely never takes less. The Dubas culture still lives with this team, perhaps it needs to end with Marner. I didn’t even blame Tre for Nylander really, his agent didn’t budge at all, he just used the team comparables. It’s a shame the GM situation was so messy last off season, we had windows that couldn’t be exploited, the new guy had so much to sift through, it couldn’t really happen.

100%

Nylander's deal is pretty rich and via Mirtle, he was more bothered by comparison to other leafs. This would make sense as to why there's nhl market value, then a leaf value lol.

I don't know how we work our way out of this

Could there be a day in the future where JT and Auston leave in UFA and Willy and Mitch are still around? God thatd be weird

 

[keonsbitterness]

Marner is already getting booed.

My wife showed me some social media video (i hate the shit, and am not on anything) of some cottagers boo'ing him while he's out on the boat with his wife.

I'm sure you could find it if you search enough.

Marner pretended he didn't notice but his wife wasn't happy about it.

It has only just begun. When he steps out in public he will be reminded what a bitch he is.

He'll be Gravano'd in no time.

That's pretty extreme. Poor start by the Ticats must really be getting to you.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Marner to C, surround him with big crashers.

Profit.

 

[Canadian Finn]

That's pretty extreme. Poor start by the Ticats must really be getting to you.

re-read my post (maybe twice?)

I don't think I said I was shouting anything. Nor did I seek out bitch marner on social media. How I contributed to anything extreme is, well, interesting.

Now, the poor start by the ticats - that's par for the course. No team I watch has any amount or hint of success.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Now, the poor start by the ticats - that's par for the course. No team I watch has any amount or hint of success.

They should have one and arguably two wins.

 

[conFABulator]

Unfortunately his agent is a rattlesnake. The best thing Marner could do is take a discount, he’d be rewarded with endorsements instantly and fan sentiment would change.

Exactly. Maybe if fan sentiment changes he grips the stick a little less tightly?

I find it fascinating watching Edmonton. Earlier this year they fired the coach and wanted to blow up the team. Then they started winning. Then they went to the finals and then you have Henrique saying he took Edmonton's offer of less money because he wanted to be there.

IMO, we need MM and JT to start this tend here...though we can point to Rielly and maybe Austin (he could have got more on the open market, but he didn't exactly give us a discount) and having done this a bit. We need these two do it now and I think they should do it this off-season

Zzzzzz. It's not up to me to come up with "solutions". It's up to the highly paid GM and President.

Trade Marner.

True. You just come across as a petulant child that knows he doesn't like something to it offers nothing productive to the discussion.

Also, influencer? Tell me more? You might not be the GM, but you are the guy who made that comment, perhaps you could explain it further.

 

[Notsince67]

Just so you know, by this logic, Tavares > Matthews.

I just want you to say that Tavares is better than Matthews.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm just posting stats, sorry if they offend you.

Games played do not matter when comparing points, I've learned that from this thread, as Marner is not a 100 point player despite pacing for ~300 games.

Therefore, Nylander = Marner this playoffs when comparing points.

Can you break things down by each game for each player? I need the full view of things, grouping them by 1-4 and 5-7 is idiotic, we need it on a per game basis.

Stats never offend me, nor should they offend you. You're twisting yourself into a pretzel with this games played don't matter nonsense, I hope you don't hurt yourself.

Just so you know, by this logic, Tavares > Matthews.

I just want you to say that Tavares is better than Matthews.

By your logic perhaps. But it would seem that the word "logic" doesn't mean what you think it means.

You cant figure out why games 5 through 7 his production might be down? I'll give you some time to think about it.

Down is one thing, falling off a cliff is another. It's not even just the point totals, it's the way he becomes a non-factor. I don't think I'll even forget the way he played game 3 against Florida, he looked like a nervous kid who's in waaaaaaaaaay over his head playing in his first professional game. For one of the highest paid players in the world, that's simply unacceptable.

But forget the stats for a moment, are you happy with the way he played for us in our two most recent playoff series?

The measurement was Marner disappears as the series goes on... McDavid did the very same thing but now McDavid gets a pass because of moving goal posts,,,,gotchya. McDavid has won the same number of cups over the last 8 years as teams that Mitch were on.. with much easier paths to the SCF.

You're comparing Marner to the guy who just won the Conn Smythe trophy? You think they gave the Conn Smythe to a guy that disappeared? Are you high?

I think your response and reaction to this is the point I am making. If Mitch gave a hometown discount, and $10M for eight years is that, I think people might feel differently about him. He took us for too much money last time and that stings us still. If he shows that sort of commitment and sacrifice it could change the narrative and he has the power to do that. That or score 30 points in the next playoff

Sure if he took a discount, his reputation will improve (at least temporarily). I don't care about that though, the question is can he stop disappearing a few games into the playoffs? I just don't see it happening, not here anyway. Maybe it's the pressure of playing in his hometown that just happens to be the hockey capital of the world that's too much for him and he can get over the hump somewhere else, anything's possible I guess. It's so hard to see it happening here though, he's already several years into his prime and his playoff performances are trending downward.

 

[Gabriel426]

ROR didn’t have a problem with Management. He thought keefe was an idiot. That’s why he left. He left because keefe was unwilling to give him PP time and didn’t want to put him back with Marner and Tavares in the playoffs. He felt like that line should have been put back together against Florida.

Again comes down to opportunity.

Well ROR is right. But I do like having him with Knies and Accairi on a line. Once Knies is out, ROR probably best to be together with JT and MM. let Kerfoot center a line with Calle and Acciari.

 

[Canadian Finn]

They should have one and arguably two wins.

yes, that is correct.