Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[rumman]

I'd be embarrassed to run it back after the presser and claiming "we are not here to sell jerseys". Giving Mitch anything let alone $100m for 8 years is lunacy after watching him in the playoffs. This after you caved to Nylander at his absolute peak. Meanwhile the Panthers have not signed 57 goal scorer Reinhart and top dman Montour who have made it to the SCF. Talk about absolute stupidity over and over.

As Ron White says, you can't fix stupid.

Indeed……

 

[Tak7]

I will be willing to bet a large sum of money that the Pittsburgh Penguins are going to regret hiring him and whoever trades for Marner are going to regret it within 5 years at the absolutely latest.

P.S who gives a shit about Marners regular season accomplishments? We all know what he does come play off time. Or should I say what he doesn't do.

If the goal is to move off Marner, you better hope 31 other teams give a shit about Marner's regular season accomplishments - because that's going to drive the market on him.

No one's going to give up a premium for Marner based on his playoff ghost act late in series.

 

[egd27]

Montreal 1978 and ‘79.

Just 78 I believe.

 

[mydnyte]

He took less when he signed his 2nd contract in order to help build a stronger roster. He elevates players around him, Hyman for example. Those two things alone put him leaps and bounds ahead of our three. AND he holds himself accountable, so let's round that up to three things!

Of course he elevates everyone he plays with, he IS the best 'offensive' player in the world.
When he has the puck on his stick in the o-zone he needs to be contained or double teamed, which creates room for everyone else on the ice. but on the backcheck, he is better than Drais (at least). but, not very committed to the defensive side of the game, he has always cheated for offense.

beating the Oilers is basically containing McDavid. games 1-3 he had 3 assists and lost them all.
When he doesnt dominate, the Oil dont usually win.

 

[Nineteen67]

Lol whatever you say man. No one gives a shit

Have you ever seen or heard this guy? He makes up stuff just to be annoyed with the media.

 

[Nineteen67]

This is it. He has all of the contractual leverage but does he want his contract year to be a year of discomfort if it is clear they are not resigning him anyway?

On that note, I see a rumour that the Leafs may want to resign him. How does this work out for him when it leaks the Leafs couldn't resign him because he wanted too much money? Add to the discomfort.

I think he either resigns at something reasonable, certainly not more than Nylander (maybe without full NMC) or he gets pressured to accept a trade.

Will re-signing him somehow make him a good playoff player? That’s a huge risk to take, assuming they’re trying to win a Cup.

 

[ToneDog]

Will re-signing him somehow make him a good playoff player? That’s a huge risk to take, assuming they’re trying to win a Cup.

Yeah let's push $100m in and roll the dice. You lose.

 

[mydnyte]

Right. That 11.5m would also be an overpay just like the Nylander contract. The only justifiable contract is AM who is tracking to be the best goal scorer of all time.

The thing is, that may not happen because it seems the players and Keefe had an arrangement to play stat padding hockey in the regular season and then switch to a more playoff style this year at least. Marner cant sit at that table, its a different league and everyone witnessed it.

there was no stat padding play ever for the leafs.
...stat padding hockey would have the #1PP on for the full PP, it would have Matthews on the ice for every ENG chance, and the fact that he didnt have an ENG until the last 2 weeks of the season puts that into perspective how much they didnt try to stat pad.
They are an elite offensive group, and JT and Marner both had 'off' seasons, Marner likely because of his injury, and JT because he was misused on the PP (as he raked a lot of PP points).

Stat padding is the Oilers who run their core for the majority of every PP and as many offensive faceoffs possible, though, that is also good coaching, as, you want to score as many goals as you can.

 

[The Masters]

Noodles is turning into a f***ing tool and really starting to get on my nerves. what a JOKE he is. He wants to give a f***ing 8 yr deal to Marner on a one yr "show me" while completely disregarding the shit post season for the last 8 years

yea... GTFO Noodles

haha
he's the worst part of Overdrive

 

[Captain Crunch]

It’s the GM’s job to sell a contract, Brad Treliving has a similar statement when Auston signed last summer

So you're saying that management was willing to give him more than that, but he decided to take less, because that's what I understood it to be in McDavid's case?

 

[Mess]

No one's going to give up a premium for Marner based on his playoff ghost act late in series.

This is exactly one of my biggest concerns when it comes to Marner.

1) A stubborn Marner refuses to go despite Leafs ownership preferring to move on from him because they want to win playoff games and the Stanley Cup.
&
2) The other 31 NHL teams also with Stanley Cup aspirations, come to the same conclusion using logical reasoning, that its better to let the Leafs screw themselves and keep and then re-sign and vastly overpay him, because Casper the Friendly Ghost puts no fear into anyone come playoff time.

He is among the softest players in the game today and avoids all physical contract and plays a perimeter game avoiding traffic and contact, and where he has scored 11 playoff goals over 8 playoff years and 9 series. He basically averages 1 goal every playoff series which at his TOP 10 Cap hit makes him a huge determent & liability to the Leafs chances of winning, which in turn only benefits the opposition.

FWIW: Over the course of Marner's same playoff years there have been 136 other players that have scored 11 or more playoff goals ( NHL Stats )

When you look at that list a players and see ex leaf Patty Marleau has scored 12 goals during that time period (and has been retired for years) and Leafs gave away their 1st round pick to dump Marleau's contract for cap reasons, and with that pick that player became Seth Jarvis for the Canes and he has scored 13 playoff goals already compared to Mitch Marner's 11. A move done to re-sign Marner to his bloated current contract in hopes of bring the Leafs playoff success. Marner now the weakest goal scoring link of all 3 players involved.

When Marner/Agent Darren Ferris threatened Dubass with an offersheet > $10 mil as a RFA, the Leafs should have simply let him walk, let Marleau play out the last year of his deal, kept and drafted Seth Jarvis with their own pick and taken the 4 X 1st round pick compensation as they would be no futher away from the Cup & that was going to be the BEST !!! trade return a Marner transactions could return to Leafs, even today.

 

[thewave]

there was no stat padding play ever for the leafs.
...stat padding hockey would have the #1PP on for the full PP, it would have Matthews on the ice for every ENG chance, and the fact that he didnt have an ENG until the last 2 weeks of the season puts that into perspective how much they didnt try to stat pad.
They are an elite offensive group, and JT and Marner both had 'off' seasons, Marner likely because of his injury, and JT because he was misused on the PP (as he raked a lot of PP points).

Stat padding is the Oilers who run their core for the majority of every PP and as many offensive faceoffs possible, though, that is also good coaching, as, you want to score as many goals as you can.

You honestly don't think there was? There was no accountability MM was stapled to AM. That alone is one method. It also cost us big.

Our games were mostly 5 goal track meets and you think we weren't trying to get these players stats up?

 

[mydnyte]

You honestly don't think there was? There was no accountability MM was stapled to AM. That alone is one method. It also cost us big.

Our games were mostly 5 goal track meets and you think we weren't trying to get these players stats up?

we had a rubbish defense. and our core 4 scores goals and puts up points, but, they are far from stat padding players.
Keefe never ran up scores when he could have (and should have) like other teams did against us, he'd put out the 4th line for a PP when we had a big lead.

 

[rumman]

haha
he's the worst part of Overdrive

He’s about as good a commentator as he was a goalie, which is beliw sub par…….

 

[mydnyte]

This is exactly one of my biggest concerns when it comes to Marner.

1) A stubborn Marner refuses to go despite Leafs ownership preferring to move on from him because they want to win playoff games and the Stanley Cup.
&
2) The other 31 NHL teams also with Stanley Cup aspirations, come to the same conclusion using logical reasoning, that its better to let the Leafs screw themselves and keep and then re-sign and vastly overpay him, because Casper the Friendly Ghost puts no fear into anyone come playoff time.

He is among the softest players in the game today and avoids all physical contract and plays a perimeter game avoiding traffic and contact, and where he has scored 11 playoff goals over 8 playoff years and 9 series. He basically averages 1 goal every playoff series which at his TOP 10 Cap hit makes him a huge determent & liability to the Leafs chances of winning, which in turn only benefits the opposition.

FWIW: Over the course of Marner's same playoff years there have been 136 other players that have scored 11 or more playoff goals ( NHL Stats )

When you look at that list a players and see ex leaf Patty Marleau has scored 12 goals during that time period (and has been retired for years) and Leafs gave away their 1st round pick to dump Marleau's contract for cap reasons, and with that pick that player became Seth Jarvis for the Canes and he has scored 13 playoff goals already compared to Marner's 11. A move done to re-sign Marner to his current contract in hopes of bring the Leafs playoff success. Marner now the weakest goal scoring link of all 3 players involved.

you would have great points of Marner wasnt a 'passer' he's never been a goal scorer, and unless someone forces him to shoot more, he never will be.

/edit
if the leafs had done like you suggested and let Marner walk for the picks, they likely dont make the deal that brought #15 OR would still take Amirov at #13, and then Jarvis goes to the Oil at 14, and we'd pick Holloway.
You cannot use a player another team picked with our selection and 'assume' we would have picked the same player.
If Amirov was the guy at 15, he likely was the guy at 13 also.

 

[Trapper]

Noodles is turning into a f***ing tool and really starting to get on my nerves. what a JOKE he is. He wants to give a f***ing 8 yr deal to Marner on a one yr "show me" while completely disregarding the shit post season for the last 8 years

yea... GTFO Noodles

He’s not alone. Many Leaf fans have the exact same mindset.
Add that to the way Shanny and Dubas structured and built the team, that’s why we are here today.

 

[conFABulator]

Will re-signing him somehow make him a good playoff player? That’s a huge risk to take, assuming they’re trying to win a Cup.

I am in the "trade Marner" camp. I think he doesn't sign at a discount and this gets leaked and used against him by the public....adding to the discomfort.

- He's not a playoff performer
- He wouldn't waive his no trade
- He is not giving a discount to stay

That's the narrative if they want to pressure him to waive.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yeah let's push $100m in and roll the dice. You lose.

When there’s not enough to indicate that he’ll every be a good playoff player, it’s a helluva risk.

 

[ACC1224]

I am in the "trade Marner" camp. I think he doesn't sign at a discount and this gets leaked and used against him by the public....adding to the discomfort.

- He's not a playoff performer
- He wouldn't waive his no trade
- He is not giving a discount to stay

That's the narrative if they want to pressure him to waive.

Not that it would ever come to that but there would be easy rebuttals to all of that.
No reason for both sides not to take the high road and figure it out

 

[Mess]

Stat padding is the Oilers who run their core for the majority of every PP and as many offensive faceoffs possible, though, that is also good coaching, as, you want to score as many goals as you can.

The Leafs also run their core for the majority of every PP and as many offensive faceoffs possible, though, that is also good coaching,

Oilers PP is the BEST most effective in the playoffs and Leafs PP was the WORST and least effective were both teams deployed the same strategy with their core.

Oilers core gets great results while Leaf core gets poor results .. I wonder where the problem could be.

Since doing that is good coaching (your words) and Leafs already fired their coach, perhaps its the CORE personnel of the Leafs that is the problem?

Perhaps Leafs management has it right and Marner has to go, because he is the least effective playoff performer and weakest link !!!

 

[SoupNazi]

STOP FLAMING AND TROLLING EACH OTHER.

 

[francis246]

This is exactly one of my biggest concerns when it comes to Marner.

1) A stubborn Marner refuses to go despite Leafs ownership preferring to move on from him because they want to win playoff games and the Stanley Cup.
&
2) The other 31 NHL teams also with Stanley Cup aspirations, come to the same conclusion using logical reasoning, that its better to let the Leafs screw themselves and keep and then re-sign and vastly overpay him, because Casper the Friendly Ghost puts no fear into anyone come playoff time.

He is among the softest players in the game today and avoids all physical contract and plays a perimeter game avoiding traffic and contact, and where he has scored 11 playoff goals over 8 playoff years and 9 series. He basically averages 1 goal every playoff series which at his TOP 10 Cap hit makes him a huge determent & liability to the Leafs chances of winning, which in turn only benefits the opposition.

FWIW: Over the course of Marner's same playoff years there have been 136 other players that have scored 11 or more playoff goals ( NHL Stats )

When you look at that list a players and see ex leaf Patty Marleau has scored 12 goals during that time period (and has been retired for years) and Leafs gave away their 1st round pick to dump Marleau's contract for cap reasons, and with that pick that player became Seth Jarvis for the Canes and he has scored 13 playoff goals already compared to Mitch Marner's 11. A move done to re-sign Marner to his bloated current contract in hopes of bring the Leafs playoff success. Marner now the weakest goal scoring link of all 3 players involved.

When Marner/Agent Darren Ferris threatened Dubass with an offersheet > $10 mil as a RFA, the Leafs should have simply let him walk, let Marleau play out the last year of his deal, kept and drafted Seth Jarvis with their own pick and taken the 4 X 1st round pick compensation as they would be no futher away from the Cup & that was going to be the BEST !!! trade return a Marner transactions could return to Leafs, even today.

Leafs were never going to draft Seth Jarvis. They picked Amirov 2 picks after Jarvis, it is more likely they had Amirov at the top of their draft list the entire time in that range.

I also doubt they end up trading Kapanen for a first in your scenario. So we probably still end up with unfortunately losing Amirov (RIP) and not having Marner, but as you said gaining the other 4 first rounders would have been nice.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

STOP FLAMING AND TROLLING EACH OTHER.

Yeah leaf fans are so passionate and want to win so badly, we are at each other's throats about what we should do. I have a coworker who is an Ottawa fan who always go around saying he hates the leafs. No you don't dude. You don't hate them anywhere near as much as I do when they lose. Then I fall in love all over again when they go on a heater. The sens are so irrelevant I don't even register them on my radar. They're still upset over 4 playoff series 20 years ago. The difference is I am in a constant state of rage for allowing these guys to have blank cheques and meanwhile teams like Columbus and Montreal -

Here I go again, just going to end the post there

 

[SoupNazi]

Yeah leaf fans are so passionate and want to win so badly, we are at each other's throats about what we should do. I have a coworker who is an Ottawa fan who always go around saying he hates the leafs. No you don't dude. You don't hate them anywhere near as much as I do when they lose. Then I fall in love all over again when they go on a heater. The sens are so irrelevant I don't even register them on my radar. They're still upset over 4 playoff series 20 years ago. The difference is I am in a constant state of rage for allowing these guys to have blank cheques and meanwhile teams like Columbus and Montreal -

Here I go again, just going to end the post there

I get it. I really do. I read enough posts by you guys all over HF to know that sometimes your hatred for each other and your team comes from love, and I understand. I'm all for you guys arguing all day and all night if you want. I just ask that you do it without calling each other dumbasses.

 

[NVious]

Noodles is turning into a f***ing tool and really starting to get on my nerves. what a JOKE he is. He wants to give a f***ing 8 yr deal to Marner on a one yr "show me" while completely disregarding the shit post season for the last 8 years

yea... GTFO Noodles

Hayes was talking how we can't sit Captain tinman and Wittle Mitchy because they are a "classy" organization.

That's not the right word, they are a COWARDLY organization.

Vegas traded away their most beloved player after he won the trophy for best at his position=WON A CUP
Raptors traded away their most beloved player who was always an all star and loved Toronto=WON A CHIP
The Panthers traded away their franchise's point leader who had been there for a decade=TWO FINALS IN A ROW

The Leafs treat their team like a daycare center where we can't be "mean" to any of the players (unless it's Hyman or Kadri, probably due to the fact they actually have heart/care). If the Leafs had balls they could 100% force Tavares and Marner out as nobody would stay in a place that 1.Doesn't want them 2.Is tanking their value.

And for the people wondering what the team would look like without them, we've already seen it; it's called the playoffs, Marner has 2 goals and 5 points in his last 12 games, Tavares has 1 goal and 4 points in his last 12 games. Enough is enough, these guys get paid McDavid money, they got that contract by taking every last penny they possibly could with no regard for the team, it's time for the team to put itself ahead of LOSERS who didn't perform.