Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[ULF_55]

I'm going on the assumption he has no interest in leaving.
A sweetheart extension would go a long way for sure, I'd love to see it.

Ain't happening.

You know it isn't.

 

[ToneDog]

I agree he should be traded not walked to free agency if he refuses to waive sit him in the press box it's a contract year he'll accept a trade

If he wants close to $100m, it is in his best interest to accept a trade because nobody is giving him $100 without that 8th year. If Leafs make it clear they are not resigning him, they will waive IMO.

 

[Nineteen67]

I don't know if it is all that kind to say someone is not interested in playing Game 7 of the playoffs.

That's a pretty big knock on his character if true.

I highly doubt he was uninterested. I do however question his compete level. Not just his though

He could have just said he was scared.

I was thinking during game 7 that he’ll be on Team Canada and be really good because he knows he’s not going to get killed, but that game didn’t fit his style.

The bigger issue for the Leafs is the cap allocation and one of the core has to be moved. Marner’s play has made him the obvious choice.

 

[Trapper]

I would agree. Tavares competed every shift. His skill has just eroded quite a bit.

I would say Mitch works hard, but he doesn't compete.

He doesn't change the way he does things when he is finding zero success. He soesn't fight for the extra inch.

Ferraro was on last night. He said Mitch was either injured or disinterested. He also pointed out that he had to only be great for one play. The same way Pasta was invisible all series except for when it mattered most

Pasta was not invisible. I saw him get laid out about 4-5 + times trying to get in the dirty areas to make a difference. Finally he broke through. We would not take that abuse.

 

[ULF_55]

There's no guarantee the return is any better than him in the playoffs

True, but you can get 2 good players for his singular cap hit.

I think he's re-signing, with a raise, and staying put.

They will all be giving a fresh start with a new coach.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

If he wants to remain here he could take the year to change the narrative.

LOL. "The narrative" can't be changed in the regular season, only in the playoffs.

 

[HeyMattyB]

 

[Tak7]

Just seems weird that an assumption is made, becomes taken as fact and then people get upset about it.
I doubt very much any discussions have taken place yet.

I get where you are coming from, but I don't think it's a totally wild assumption to make given how the previous negotiations have gone, and how emboldened they may have felt watching the Willy camp essentially take the team to the cleaners earlier this year either.

 

[Jojalu]

Pasta was not invisible. I saw him get laid out about 4-5 + times trying to get in the dirty areas to make a difference. Finally he broke through. We would not take that abuse.

Fair point. He was shut down well, but kept competing

 

[57 Years No Cup]

He could have just said he was scared.

I was thinking during game 7 that he’ll be on Team Canada and be really good because he knows he’s not going to get killed, but that game didn’t fit his style.

The bigger issue for the Leafs is the cap allocation and one of the core has to be moved. Marner’s play has made him the obvious choice.

It really is as simple as that. Stone cold logic. No "hate" involved at all.

 

[Notsince67]

Why would he go anywhere he doesn’t want or leave himself open to another trade or having to move again in a year UFA?
Pick it now.
The stipulation I would give is that my destination have an 8 year, 12.5 million contract with NMC in order to waive. Wouldn’t you do that?
Then you (or your agent) can tell the media they asked you to waive and you agreed.

Marner doesn't need the team to act as his agent. He can command far more when there is no cost to acquiring him long term. Who gives up assets when you can get him for the same money for nothing? Sure theoretically possible but does your plan include parting with him for a thank you card?

Unlike Marner, Ovi and Yzerman were fantastic playoff performers from day 1.

You're right though, I shouldn't have said Marner "isn't" a playoff performer, I should have said "hasn't been". And if you really think he's going to turn it around and be someone you can count on in the playoffs from now on that's fine, I'd rather not take that gamble myself because at this point it seeme like a long shot.


Newsflash - there's no such thing as "his spot".

Marner control where he goes and that's fine, as long as he goes.

Newsflash. This moronic vindictive kind of move doesn't happen among adults trying to run a business. Stop cosplaying someone who actually matters.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Newsflash. This moronic vindictive kind of move doesn't happen among adults trying to run a business. Stop cosplaying someone who actually matters.

1)
Do try to post like an adult, there's no need to use the word "moronic", save that nonsense for the schoolyard.

2)
The word "vindictive" is also out of place here. If moving on from a player is best for the team, than that's what you do. It happens all the time, it's nothing personal and I'm pretty sure you know that so what are you on about?

 

[FerrisRox]

He does, but I’m asking why would he not waive if asked? Why would he stay in an environment that is not going to re-sign him (or make the offer he wants)? Spend a year in a place where the media and fans know he wouldn’t waive to walk away the following year? Makes no sense.

I'm not sure why this situation is confounding you.

There are certainly reasons why he might elect to stay in Toronto next year even if he was looking to go elsewhere as a free agent.

First and foremost, this is home and by his own admission he really likes it here. That , more than anything else, should "make sense" to you.

Secondly, as a pending UFA who wants to maximize his value, staying in a situation where you're playing with high end offensive players certainly makes a ton of sense for someone who wants to post the best possible numbers that they can in order to maximize their next contract.

Third, he simply may not have any interest in moving right now if he's going to end up moving again as a free agent in 12 months. It's in his best interest, if he's leaving Toronto (and I'm not at all convinced that he is) to wait until the summer, assess the situations of all the teams and then decide where he's heading. Why decide now, a year in advance, only to facilitate a trade for Toronto, which would in turn weaken the team he is heading to? It makes a lot of sense for the Leafs, of course, but I don't see what Marner gets out of it. He weakens the team he is joining and then he forgoes the chance to go to market and maximize his dollar value by signing an extension with the team that acquired him?

Why?

 

[Nineteen67]

It really is as simple as that. Stone cold logic. No "hate" involved at all.

If they don’t, the four forwards will eat 53.2% of the cap next year and only 16 players signed.

They’re already at least two years overdue on correcting “we can and we will” and they cannot afford to wait another year.

 

[FerrisRox]

Boston essentially didn't cover the guy all series. They knew he was going to circle the perimeter and create nothing.

Later in the series with the Montreal Canadiens a few years back this same thing happened.

Once it became clear that he was going to remain on the perimeter, they didn't really give him any kind of special coverage, though in the regular season, and the beginning of that series, they paid special attention to him.

In the playoffs, it's like he shadows himself.

 

[Notsince67]

1)
Do try to post like an adult, there's no need to use the word "moronic", save that nonsense for the schoolyard.

2)
The word "vindictive" is also out of place here. If moving on from a player is best for the team, than that's what you do. It happens all the time, it's nothing personal and I'm pretty sure you know that so what are you on about?

Nothing personal?
YOU said
"Marner control where he goes and that's fine, as long as he goes"
Sounds like it's personal when you are willing to get rid of assets for nothing. Why not pay him out and release him from his contract? Does that make sense? It doesn't because it's stupid. Your specious hand waving dismissals aren't a serious option to grownups.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I'm not sure why this situation is confounding you.

There are certainly reasons why he might elect to stay in Toronto next year even if he was looking to go elsewhere as a free agent.

First and foremost, this is home and by his own admission he really likes it here. That , more than anything else, should "make sense" to you.

Secondly, as a pending UFA who wants to maximize his value, staying in a situation where you're playing with high end offensive players certainly makes a ton of sense for someone who wants to post the best possible numbers that they can in order to maximize their next contract.

Third, he simply may not have any interest in moving right now if he's going to end up moving again as a free agent in 12 months. It's in his best interest, if he's leaving Toronto (and I'm not at all convinced that he is) to wait until the summer, assess the situations of all the teams and then decide where he's heading. Why decide now, a year in advance, only to facilitate a trade for Toronto, which would in turn weaken the team he is heading to? It makes a lot of sense for the Leafs, of course, but I don't see what Marner gets out of it. He weakens the team he is joining and then he forgoes the chance to go to market and maximize his dollar value by signing an extension with the team that acquired him?

Why?

To be fair, he would end up leaving 10-12 million on the table by walking.

The Leafs could help facilitate an eight-year deal for him and make sure he maximizes his contract value. It depends on him how much he values that extra year and the money that comes with it.

But yes, all of the reasons you stated could make him want to stay. Lots of variables at play including whether or not Treliving wants him around, what teams are willing to trade for him, and what those teams are willing to accept during contract negotiations if it gets that far.

 

[FerrisRox]

Question, no contract has been discussed yet, why are many saying he "wants a raise"?
I'm guessing that's an assumption?

Has anybody in the history of ever walked into a contract re-negotiation and not wanted a raise?

Like, ever?

 

[Nineteen67]

Later in the series with the Montreal Canadiens a few years back this same thing happened.

Once it became clear that he was going to remain on the perimeter, they didn't really give him any kind of special coverage, though in the regular season, and the beginning of that series, they paid special attention to him.

In the playoffs, it's like he shadows himself.

Boston gifted him a goal in game 7 and he wasn’t in a good enough head space to take advantage.

Has anybody in the history of ever walked into a contract re-negotiation and not wanted a raise?

Like, ever?

Old guys like Stamkos……maybe.

 

[Trapper]

1)
Do try to post like an adult, there's no need to use the word "moronic", save that nonsense for the schoolyard.

2)
The word "vindictive" is also out of place here. If moving on from a player is best for the team, than that's what you do. It happens all the time, it's nothing personal and I'm pretty sure you know that so what are you on about?

It’s ok Gary. Last night I prayed to Gary Roberts that he would fix the core. Have faith my son.

 

[GoonieFace]

Nothing personal?
YOU said
"Marner control where he goes and that's fine, as long as he goes"
Sounds like it's personal when you are willing to get rid of assets for nothing. Why not pay him out and release him from his contract? Does that make sense? It doesn't because it's stupid. Your specious hand waving dismissals aren't a serious option to grownups.

Cap space is an asset though

 

[FerrisRox]

To be fair, he would end up leaving 10-12 million on the table by walking.

The Leafs could help facilitate an eight-year deal for him and make sure he maximizes his contract value. It depends on him how much he values that extra year and the money that comes with it.

But yes, all of the reasons you stated could make him want to stay. Lots of variables at play including whether or not Treliving wants him around, what teams are willing to trade for him, and what those teams are willing to accept during contract negotiations if it gets that far.

Leaving it on the table implies he's not going to get that money eventually, which you have no possible way of knowing.

If Mitch Marner walks to free agency next summer and inks a four or five year free agent contact at say, $12.5 million, he would be set up to enter free agency again as a 32 or 33 year old, with a much higher cap to draw from.

At his age, I doubt he will be scrambling for an eight year deal regardless of who he signs with. It would be a dumb move. He's much better off re-entering free agency before he's 35 or 36 because that gives him the bet opportunities either to win a championship or ink a second big-dollar free agent deal.

 

[Squiffy]

You guys want to hear something funny?
Not only will Mitch not be traded, he will be extended.

That's where I parked my vote in the poll. It's not what I want, but what I think will happen.

Question, no contract has been discussed yet, why are many saying he "wants a raise"?
I'm guessing that's an assumption?

Seems a safe one? Guy is in prime of career, if he was worth 11m coming off his ELC, he's worth more now, in terms of negotiations. Higher cap too.

Nothing personal?
YOU said
"Marner control where he goes and that's fine, as long as he goes"
Sounds like it's personal when you are willing to get rid of assets for nothing. Why not pay him out and release him from his contract? Does that make sense? It doesn't because it's stupid. Your specious hand waving dismissals aren't a serious option to grownups.

Walking him in to UFA is an option they might have to take, it's real. If they want to move on and he doesn't that's what happens. You'd hope to get something, but if nothing else you get 11 million in cap space, and that's ok enough. Happens in the NFL all the time.

 

[Notsince67]

You mean I've been doing it wrong for 57 years?

You are misunderstanding who is meant as the goat.

 

[Squiffy]

Maybe he takes three years at Willy money to line it up with AM's UFA year. 3 more kicks at the can with the old band and it works or it doesn't and they head off in to the sunset together.