Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[PromisedLand]

Keller also makes $7.1 million so that could represent a $5.4 million savings on a potential $12.5 million contract for Marner. So whatever downgrade you take on Keller could help you get another quality player.

Keller will score more goals than Marner at $7.1 mil than Mitch does and $10.9 and will at $12.5 mil.

I can say that because despite limited teammate support in Arizona Keller already outscores Marner playing with AM, WN and JT.

I suggest the extra cap space be used on a player like Lawson Crouse ($4.3 mil X 3 more years) & Keller @ ($7.15 mil X 4 years) = Combined = $ 11.45 mil

6-4 / 215 lbs Crouse would be the perfect powerforward missing from Leafs top 6.

Marner + Robertson + Lilegeren for Keller and Crouse.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that some folks think Keller is going to suck. When the hell has Keller ever played with a talent like Matthews or Nylander?

Heck has Marner ever produced significantly away from Prime Tavares or Matthews? Marner has to be carried by a bonafide center. Marner can't even drive his own line; and people want to pay Marner 12+ AAV. Its baffling to thinking minds who believe in reason and logic the kind of pro-marner sentiments are out there. I mean WHAT IS GOING ON?

 

[Stephen]

The only good potential in the deal is Guenther. The cap space is nice but UFA is over who are we spending that money on? Also in the deal we don’t get a first or any flippable assets so we can acquire a player to utilize the cap space. So we are gonna have to wait for a year to utilize the cap space.

I’m not sure if you’ve watched Keller play but go watch Arizona’s playoff goals in the one year they made the playoffs(2020 bubble). Keller scored 4 but 2 of them were in a blow out and off breakaways. 1 off a power play 1 timer. The same exact shit people complain that Marner does, Keller does even worse. Get Crouse if you want someone who is going to actually impact the team in a different way and play a different style.

Matthews, Nylander, Keller, Tavares, Domi, Knies and Guenther would be a pretty well stocked Top 6 plus one, which could easily be distributed on 3 capable lines.

 

[Gaberd2608]

Keller will score more goals than Marner at $7.1 mil than Mitch does and $10.9 and will at $12.5 mil.

I can say that because despite limited teammate support in Arizona Keller already outscores Marner playing with AM, WN and JT.

I suggest the extra cap space be used on a player like Lawson Crouse ($4.3 mil X 3 more years) & Keller @ ($7.15 mil X 4 years) = Combined = $ 11.45 mil

6-4 / 215 lbs Crouse would be the perfect powerforward missing from Leafs top 6.

Marner + Robertson + Lilegeren for Keller and Crouse.

If Marner would agree ti waive nmc and sign with them, Bjugstad is the player that would be most helpful.

I also dont think we can move Lilly at the moment as we dont have the defensive depth to spare.

Marner and Robertson for Keller, Bjugstad, and 2nd rounder.

Domi Matthews. Keller
Knies. Tavares. Nylander
Mcmann. Bjugstad. Jarnkrok
Holmberg. Kampf. Dewar

Id rather have the center depth than winger depth.

 

[francis246]

I find it absolutely ridiculous that some folks think Keller is going to suck. When the hell has Keller ever played with a talent like Matthews or Nylander?

Heck has Marner ever produced significantly away from Prime Tavares or Matthews? Marner has to be carried by a bonafide center. Marner can't even drive his own line; and people want to pay Marner 12+ AAV. Its baffling to thinking minds who believe in reason and logic the kind of pro-marner sentiments are out there. I mean WHAT IS GOING ON?

No one said Keller is going to suck. So get it straight.

It’s about play style. And the inconsistency of fans on this board. You guys don’t even know what you want. Keller doesn’t play any different than Marner. The biggest complaint about Marner is that he is a perimeter player who is weak and avoids contact. He’s small, he needs to put on weight. In the playoffs he only scores in blowout games and or at moments that don’t matter. What do you think you’re getting in Keller? All you have to do is go on YouTube and watch Arizona’s games from the bubble.

You’re gawking over a player who does the exact same things you despise. What sense does that make? Is the point not to get to get better?

With the proposed trade you’re substituting Keller with Marner, Guenther for Robertson, Vasi for Liljegren. Yes you gain cap space, but no players to spend that cap space on currently. No additional assets to trade to utilize the cap space. It’s the exact same team with $4.5 million in free cap space.

 

[Da Mash]

Has Marner waived his NMC?

Has Tre even asked?

Rumours mean nothing if Marner doesn’t waive and why would he waive? The only reason I could see is if he was going to a team he wants to be with and they offer a max deal.

He will play here and produce and Tre will do all he can to keep him but in the end it will be Marners decision.

We can all cry and whine about it and some will even boo him every time he touches the puck but the odds are better he will resign here then waiving his NMC.

If they can’t agree to a number then Marner hits free agency and we will have 11 mil in cap savings.

Taveres will probably sign a team friendly deal and we will have more cap savings.

 

[ToneDog]

You don’t see how we get better?

We get 70-80 (maybe more) points from Keller + 45-55 (if guenther doesn’t improve at age 21) at under 9 million for another year and we don’t get better?

We would get deeper, we could run two pp units to maybe help us not get it shutdown in the playoffs everytime. We could get more scoring in the playoffs from both of them. We could use the cap savings to grab another bottom six piece or a better defender than Liljegren.

We could run a RW line of Keller-Nylander-Guenther-Jarnkrok or we could shift someone to LW and create a great top six.

if Marner leaving is going to leave a big hole, than this trade would’ve been perfect at the draft to plug that hole and then some.

You need to put on your Marner glasses to see how that deal does not make us better. You move out a small, chicken shit, soft winger and potentially add 3 top 9 forwards using the cap savings. That gives you 3 solid lines instead of two. How are we not better in the playoffs? Marner has been useless since the first few games of the last Tampa series. He's addition by subtraction alone.

 

[Mess]

I find it absolutely ridiculous that some folks think Keller is going to suck. When the hell has Keller ever played with a talent like Matthews or Nylander?

Answer NHL All-star game.

Of course, the time that Matthews and Keller are spending does not mean it will lead to a trade. Back at the All-Star Weekend, Matthews had picked Keller as part of his roster, stating how he loves spending time with him and how valuable of a player he is. They also won the 3-3 tournament.

“He’s an unbelievable player,” Matthews said back in February. “I spend a lot of time with him in the summers and we like to hang out. We’ll skate and train together. In the summer skates, we always try to play together and have pretty good chemistry, so I really wanted him to be on the team. He’s really slippery, he’s extremely skilled, he shoots it really well, but he’s also an elite playmaker and he is having a great season.”

Doesn't sound like Matthews would object to a trade that sent Mitch out if its his Pal Keller coming back.

 

[Racer88]

Fuel for the Fire. .. Matthews and Keller are close friends dating back to their days together in the US Development program. Matthews and Keller are spending time together this summer doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of an imminent trade. Matthews and Keller have long been close, and often train together in the summers.

Auston Matthews’ recent posts on social media lead to crazy speculation!​

Hinting at a wild move in Toronto?

With all the trade rumours swirling around in Toronto, it was no surprise when a new speculation was added to the mix. Thanks to Maple Leafs star forward Auston Matthews, who got fans reacting to his recent post on social media in which the superstar shared a picture linking him to former Arizona Coyotes now Utah Hockey Club forward Clayton Keller.

In the Instagram story from Matthews’ account, that was shared all over the place on X, the Leafs’ forward’s dog is having a play date with Keller’s pup. Which means the two players are hanging and fans quickly went back to a previous rumour that once linked Keller to a possible trade to Toronto.

View attachment 896223

My God even their dogs are soft. How bout a Rotty or an Akita

 

[Superstar]

Marner is going to earn every point he gets
If he get 90 under berube .
Sign him

If Marner gets 90 points, it's because he plays with Matthews and plays a ton on the PP, not because he's so special. ROR got 77 points with the Blues the season they won the Cup, and he didn't have anyone like Matthews to play with.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

My God even their dogs are soft. How bout a Rotty or an Akita

You’re about to trigger some posters on here with that comment lol.

 

[Kazparov]

Keefe was simply out matched. Problem is the same analytics department that was telling Keefe how to manage is going to be telling Chief how to manage.

Maybe Chief is a stronger personality and will do his thing, vs allowing others to influence him. There has to be accountability on the individual players too.

I have never heard/read that the analytics department is making game play decisions over the authority of the head coach. Do you have anything you can reference to document that?

 

[Antropovsky]

It's certainly not the group collectively failing to get it done. Marner has been the team's kryptonite. Not only does he take up 13% of the cap, but he's also dragging his linemates down.

Why don't you explain why this laundry list of problems below doesn’t bother you?

Also, explain the other core 4's comparable issues that bring them in line with Marner:

Laundry list of Marner's playoff problems:

• Shoots from the furthest distance among the core 4, averaging 10' further than the next member and 20' further than the teammate in first. 40' is near the blueline.
• Has the least amount of slot shots among the core 4, 10% less than the next lowest member and 20% worse than the teammate in first.
• Has made by far the most giveaways and mistakes leading to game-winning goals by opponents in critical playoff games (7 in total). Do any of the other core 4 players even have 1?
• Avoids physical play much more than the rest of the core 4. We haven’t seen the extreme avoidance of going into the corner on video for anyone else as we've seen twice for Marner.

Distance of shots from net season vs playoffs.
View attachment 896177

Percentage of shots from the slot season vs playoffs
View attachment 896178

Blah blah blah .. I've asked before, have you ever played the game... do you even know what you are posting?

Dont want this to get missed by anyone in this thread. @Hellcat

I post research and stats regarding Marner and ask Hellcat to respond to the stats (bolded in my post)....and Hellcats response was "have you ever played the game"

Lol..well I guess this is an improvement to hearing how much he works out.

Okay.. ill play along.

@Hellcat No, no.. your right I know nothing about what Im posting. Your so smart and have an incredible body... please enlighten us.

Can you explain in detail what I'm posting and how its incorrectly being used? Also please provide a bunch of stats and information on why Matthews, Tavares and Nylander deserve the same criticism as Marner.


ps..Maybe add a photo of your ripped body too, so everyone can use it to visualize your incredible knowlege of the Leafs.

 

[Arzak]

Dont want this to get missed by anyone in this thread. @Hellcat

I post research and stats regarding Marner and ask Hellcat to respond to the stats (bolded in my post)....and Hellcats response was "have you ever played the game"

Lol..well I guess this is an improvement to hearing how much he works out.

You provide stats, they ignore them and go straight for an insult hater like you deserves!



That cause they have nothing to add

 

[Antropovsky]

You provide stats, they ignore them and go straight for an insult hater like you deserves!



That cause they have nothing to add

I decided to add to my post and see if I cant get @Hellcat to respond and enlighten us on why the stats/info I posted are improperly being used; Which he said.. but apparently his explanation on why they were used incorrectly was inadvertedly deleted when he posted.

If we are really lucky ... he's going to post a picture of his chiseled body too! Since apparently it has some relevance to this message board.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

The only good potential in the deal is Guenther. The cap space is nice but UFA is over who are we spending that money on? Also in the deal we don’t get a first or any flippable assets so we can acquire a player to utilize the cap space. So we are gonna have to wait for a year to utilize the cap space.

I’m not sure if you’ve watched Keller play but go watch Arizona’s playoff goals in the one year they made the playoffs(2020 bubble). Keller scored 4 but 2 of them were in a blow out and off breakaways. 1 off a power play 1 timer. The same exact shit people complain that Marner does, Keller does even worse. Get Crouse if you want someone who is going to actually impact the team in a different way and play a different style.

I agree with the deal not making sense now, but this is the pipe dream of a deal we would want pre-draft

Also bringing up the playoffs is sort of irrelevant for two reasons. Firstly, Keller played years ago, as the #1 option on a team as crappy as Arizona (and still is) and was around what Marner gives us. Put him besides Matthews and maybe his numbers sky rocket to 100 or maybe they stay the same. Secondly, Marner isn’t some extremely irreplaceable piece in the playoffs, I’m pretty confident most star wingers in the league can replicate and outproduce marners offence, including Keller.

This isn’t even factoring in we get another top 6 caliber player in guenther who could contribute right away.

 

[Kazparov]

At this point a trade is probably unlikely.

Does Tre have the power to let him walk next summer, or will that decision come from up above? I fear this will be more of a business decision than hockey decision. If we let both Tavares and Marner walk it would be great way to start a much needed reset.

Maybe they let him test the market to see he's not getting 12+

 

[ToneDog]

If Marner gets 90 points, it's because he plays with Matthews and plays a ton on the PP, not because he's so special. ROR got 77 points with the Blues the season they won the Cup, and he didn't have anyone like Matthews to play with.

I believe 90 points under Berube is the equivalent to 110 under Keefe. Give him his $12.5m already.

 

[Racer88]

You’re about to trigger some posters on here with that comment lol.

I know. I was very careful adjective I chose to describe the dogs. lol

 

[GoonieFace]

Do you guys honestly watch hockey? You hate Mitch Marner but you want Clayton Keller on this team?

But how big are Keller’s teeth?

 

[Antropovsky]

I agree with the deal not making sense now, but this is the pipe dream of a deal we would want pre-draft

Also bringing up the playoffs is sort of irrelevant for two reasons. Firstly, Keller played years ago, as the #1 option on a team as crappy as Arizona (and still is) and was around what Marner gives us. Put him besides Matthews and maybe his numbers sky rocket to 100 or maybe they stay the same. Secondly, Marner isn’t some extremely irreplaceable piece in the playoffs, I’m pretty confident most star wingers in the league can replicate and outproduce marners offence, including Keller.

This isn’t even factoring in we get another top 6 caliber player in guenther who could contribute right away.

Why would Utah ever trade a 7 million (for 5 more seasons) ppg+ player with no elite linemates for a 11 million dollar player, in need of a new contract, who barely outproduced Keller on a high scoring team with multiple elite linemates? Keller produced 30 points more than the next Coyote and 17 more the last two seasons.

 

[ToneDog]

Why would Utah ever trade a 7 million (for 5 more seasons) ppg+ player with no elite linemates for a 11 million dollar player, in need of a new contract, who barely outproduced Keller on a high scoring team with multiple elite linemates? Keller produced 30 points more than the next Coyote and 17 more the last two seasons.

What is funny is some do not see how Keller + Guenther for Marner + Topi makes us a better team. If only the owner of the Yeti or better yet his wife was in love with Marner as some of his fanboys are.

 

[Arzak]

I believe 90 points under Berube is the equivalent to 110 under Keefe. Give him his $12.5m already.

#Underpaid

 

[ToneDog]

But how big are Keller’s teeth?

And his heart and balls?

 

[francis246]

But how big are Keller’s teeth?

Haha I think he’s got normal gibs so he should fit right in

 

[Racer88]

Why would Utah ever trade a 7 million (for 5 more seasons) ppg+ player with no elite linemates for a 11 million dollar player, in need of a new contract, who barely outproduced Keller on a high scoring team with multiple elite linemates? Keller produced 30 points more than the next Coyote and 17 more the last two seasons.

They wouldn’t make that trade straight up and one more stat that shows how over paid and over hyped Marner is.
It will be catastrophic if the leafs resign him for more money……or even the money he makes now