Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Antropovsky]

Forgetting the shooter comment. Can you please show those stats for the regular season? That would be interesting to see.

Shots p/60 this past year was a career low for him at 6.02. His first few years in the league he was 7.11, 7.36, 7.67.

Individual high danger scoring chances /60 was 2.8 this past year. Career low the season prior at 1.99. Was 3.13 three seasons ago.

 

[Stephen]

What about current players or players who have played with him? People who would know? Surely there are tons as well.

End of the day, Marner can only capture the hearts and minds of this fanbase by winning a championship or getting close on many exciting runs. All this other bickering shit will go on and on but no one’s mind will be changed.

 

[LeafGrief]

What about current players or players who have played with him? People who would know? Surely there are tons as well.

By all means, we can move these goalposts all day and argue about the credibility of each and every former and current NHL'er and what their thoughts on Marner are.

Or, we could live with the idea that different people have different opinions on something that is entirely subjective (please objectively measure "compete level"), and furthermore, that anybody's position on whether he's a "gamer" or not is just one tangential discussion to the main argument of whether he should be traded or not.

This is all just a classic Appeal to Authority fallacy at the end of the day. I don't really give a rat's ass of what Ryan O'Reilly or Jeff O'Neil or Shamus O'Shamrock think about Mitch Marner, I think that my opinion is worth as much as that rat's ass and that's good enough for me to write some posts about. OP's opinion is worth as much as mine, so that's why we've got a thread with thousands of posts about it. Why so many people seem upset by the other side in this discussion is beyond me, but I'm down to play in the mud with anyone and everyone. Your turn to call out my fallacies!

 

[francis246]

That sounds a lot like poor decision making or just poor situational awareness or as some would call it poor hockey IQ

Not really poor IQ. It’s just straight up Marner being afraid of contact. Marner makes a lot of good plays. But his downfall in the playoffs is he will keep to the outside and not attack the middle. The one time he did attack the middle he scored a beautiful goal. Then he immediately reverted back to perimeter hockey. He can do it, he’s choosing not to , which is frustrating.

 

[AvroArrow]

That’s similar to if Tavares worked on his skating he’d be faster. By adulthood you are what you are, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear type of thing. Or if guys just worked on shooting they all could be Mathews, easy just work more.

Just practice and you too can develop a 95 mile an hour shot.

"Training doesn't work guys, no need to try and eat better and train more efficiently and work on your weaknesses, you are what you are"

By about 32-33 I'd agree with you, men generally decline around there. But that's a hilariously bad take, thank god we don't have people with this mentality on the training staff.

 

[Confucius]

People that thought Marner would work with management co-operatively together on a solution who want to move on from him and Core 4, while he was given a NMC by a fired GM to allow him to defy ownership and management wishes was likely more hopeful wishing then realistic thinking.

Most people in life would not want to be where they're not wanted particularly in a business.

Other teams are watching so not sure if Marner's defiance is helping or hurting him in the future. If he doesn't resign with TO and simply heads to free agency next year this will be a black mark against him and his character and might impact his options available and his remuneration. He is already carrying the reputation as a one who struggles in physical playoff series so this will be a second strike against him.

Easy solution, don’t hand out nmc’s.. WTF is up with this here is your negotiated NMC, just don’t attempt to use it. Lol

 

[notbias]

By all means, we can move these goalposts all day and argue about the credibility of each and every former and current NHL'er and what their thoughts on Marner are.

Or, we could live with the idea that different people have different opinions on something that is entirely subjective (please objectively measure "compete level"), and furthermore, that anybody's position on whether he's a "gamer" or not is just one tangential discussion to the main argument of whether he should be traded or not.

This is all just a classic Appeal to Authority fallacy at the end of the day. I don't really give a rat's ass of what Ryan O'Reilly or Jeff O'Neil or Shamus O'Shamrock think about Mitch Marner, I think that my opinion is worth as much as that rat's ass and that's good enough for me to write some posts about. OP's opinion is worth as much as mine, so that's why we've got a thread with thousands of posts about it. Why so many people seem upset by the other side in this discussion is beyond me, but I'm down to play in the mud with anyone and everyone. Your turn to call out my fallacies!

End of the day, Marner can only capture the hearts and minds of this fanbase by winning a championship or getting close on many exciting runs. All this other bickering shit will go on and on but no one’s mind will be changed.

There are 400 pages using one of O'Neil's 900 rants as a reason that Marner doesn't work hard and now that O'Reilly has said he is very competitive we need to move on. Makes sense, alright.

 

[Confucius]

"Training doesn't work guys, no need to try and eat better and train more efficiently and work on your weaknesses, you are what you are"

By about 32-33 I'd agree with you, men generally decline around there. But that's a hilariously bad take, thank god we don't have people with this mentality on the training staff.

A lifetime of practicing, countless hours of hockey schools and hockey practice. Then at the age of 27 after 1 summer of working out you find 2 miles per hour to your shot. What did everyone else miss? lol! yeah sure.

At his stage the best he can hope for is to hang on to what he has. And I’m pretty sure if he works out all summer he will.

 

[Arzak]

posts in Mitch Marner thread/day (yearly total/365):
Antropovsky: 26.75

God bless him. Man has to offset what can only be surmised as an army of trolls most likely paid in Mitch Marner selfies.

 

[Arzak]

Marner is an elite level talent Winger, top 10 in points in the NHL over the past seven seasons. They don't grow on trees.

They all sucked in the playoffs.

The New coach wants a crack at changing that.

No amount of endless complaining, and whining about this playoffs unacceptable three points is going to change that. He's not getting traded. Get over it.

What exactly are people trying to accomplish here with this endless complaining about him? Perspective people.

October will come, he'll be excellent in the regular season, and maybe Berube can change the playoff result... or not... who knows.

GO outside, enjoy summer, or get to work...



Being a NHL player, knowing NHL talent... having you know, actual NHL knowledge is worthy of dismissal, when you have expertise such as arm chair hockey fans, who mostly haven't played above house league, and have an eye test that is superior, to those in the game. Right.

What were your thoughts on Mitch Marner when you got to know him?

Berube: He is a character guy. He is a great person. He is obviously a great player. I am looking forward to coaching him.

More knowledgeable than NHL Coaches too right....

The best pro Mitch argument I've heard from his fans. Man is not born from a tree. Profound wisdom.

Mitch is a big reason Mike Babcock was fired, but let's pretend Berube will awake beast in Marner, despite two different coaching styles - Babcock and Keefe, both managed the same, make him cry.

 

[LeafGrief]

There are 400 pages using one of O'Neil's 900 rants as a reason that Marner doesn't work hard and now that O'Reilly has said he is very competitive we need to move on. Makes sense, alright.

I’m not the one saying we should move on. I think we’ll be here having this argument for another two years at least. I find it’s the Marner defending crowd who say the most, “nothing to see here folks, move on”, but that’s a personal experience which is possibly clouded by my own bias. I pointed out that a different post contained a fallacy, I didn’t say stop talking about it, or even stop making fallacious posts.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This page of the thread clearly demonstrates that defending Marner also gets you clicks.

Not really. Nothing sells in Toronto sports like negativity. The media blasts Marner to get clicks, and then those clicks help fuel a divide that generates discussion.

 

[Stephen]

I’m not the one saying we should move on. I think we’ll be here having this argument for another two years at least. I find it’s the Marner defending crowd who say the most, “nothing to see here folks, move on”, but that’s a personal experience which is possibly clouded by my own bias. I pointed out that a different post contained a fallacy, I didn’t say stop talking about it, or even stop making fallacious posts.

It’s probably healthier to move on from having any Marner debates at all since there isn’t really anything to talk about.

One side has to live with the fact that Marner could very well be here for a long time. Pros and cons baked in. At the very least his departure isn’t going to be under the time and conditions of your choosing.

And the other side has to accept the fact that he’s just not a universally popular player.

 

[Stephen]

Not really. Nothing sells in Toronto sports like negativity. The media blasts Marner to get clicks, and then those clicks help fuel a divide that generates discussion.

Toronto media doesn’t need Mitch Marner to sell. They’d do the same business telling you about Peter Holland’s summer and it would be gobbled up all the same.

 

[francis246]

The best pro Mitch argument I've heard from his fans. Man is not born from a tree. Profound wisdom.

Mitch is a big reason Mike Babcock was fired, but let's pretend Berube will awake beast in Marner, despite two different coaching styles - Babcock and Keefe, both managed the same, make him cry.

Mike Babcock was fired because Mike Babcock was a piece of shit and b

 

[Antropovsky]

""

... what a shining endorsement... "Hes so competitive. BUT I think how elusive he is, how he create plays, how he can be off balance and put the puck in the right areas. So fun playing with him - the short time I did. the way he sees the game in such a unique way."

Does this sound like the description of a top 5 player? What would one expect any player to say if asked about another player by a reporter on camera? At a Toronto event no less? If he didnt like him would he say "Hes not good?"

Oreilly is smart he also mentions how Toronto media puts everything under a microscope and how they go so far as wondering what you ate that day.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And the other side has to accept the fact that he’s just not a universally popular player.

Marner is pretty universally popular with players, coaches, management, and most fans.

Toronto media doesn’t need Mitch Marner to sell. They’d do the same business telling you about Peter Holland’s summer and it would be gobbled up all the same.

That's obviously not true. Toronto would have a higher engagement average, but the topic and approach is still going to drive a lot of variance.

 

[Dog]

Mike Babcock was fired because Mike Babcock was a piece of shit and b

He really was the devil incognito!

 

[Fogelhund]

The best pro Mitch argument I've heard from his fans. Man is not born from a tree. Profound wisdom.

Mitch is a big reason Mike Babcock was fired, but let's pretend Berube will awake beast in Marner, despite two different coaching styles - Babcock and Keefe, both managed the same, make him cry.

I'm sorry... it's a fact he's an elite regular season player... it's not even worth arguing about, but I can see how you would find that profound.

The people who think Berube can get something out of Marner and the team, are the team and Berube. No amount of your tears is going to change their direction for the year.

 

[francis246]

The best pro Mitch argument I've heard from his fans. Man is not born from a tree. Profound wisdom.

Mitch is a big reason Mike Babcock was fired, but let's pretend Berube will awake beast in Marner, despite two different coaching styles - Babcock and Keefe, both managed the same, make him cry.

Additionally, Mitch Marner’s performance in game 5 a long with Marleau and Matthews was part of the reason why Mike Babcock was kept into next season. Get your facts straight.

Marner also played his best playoff performances under Babcock and Dale Hunter. Two tougher coaches. Clearly that’s the type of coaching he needs.

Gosh this mobile site sucks

 

[Fogelhund]

Gosh this mobile site sucks

I won't use it on the mobile anymore... aside from the stupid ads... it's that cycle it goes through, where everything you've typed disappears.

 

[notdoneyet]

People that thought Marner would work with management co-operatively together on a solution who want to move on from him and Core 4, while he was given a NMC by a fired GM to allow him to defy ownership and management wishes was likely more hopeful wishing then realistic thinking.

Most people in life would not want to be where they're not wanted particularly in a business.

Other teams are watching so not sure if Marner's defiance is helping or hurting him in the future. If he doesn't resign with TO and simply heads to free agency next year this will be a black mark against him and his character and might impact his options available and his remuneration. He is already carrying the reputation as a one who struggles in physical playoff series so this will be a second strike against him.

Jesus mess that’s a lot of filling in the blanks there
It’s never been published that the leafs want to move on from marner
They haven’t asked him to negate his NMC

 

[QJo]

Shots p/60 this past year was a career low for him at 6.02. His first few years in the league he was 7.11, 7.36, 7.67.

Individual high danger scoring chances /60 was 2.8 this past year. Career low the season prior at 1.99. Was 3.13 three seasons ago.

Turns out that meant less to me than I hoped but thank you for indulging.

 

[LeafGrief]

It’s probably healthier to move on from having any Marner debates at all since there isn’t really anything to talk about.

One side has to live with the fact that Marner could very well be here for a long time. Pros and cons baked in. At the very least his departure isn’t going to be under the time and conditions of your choosing.

And the other side has to accept the fact that he’s just not a universally popular player.

If this thread were closed someone would just start a new thread and the exact same cast of characters would talk about the same thing in there. There’s not much to talk about that hasn’t been said a thousand times, thats true, but the drive to argue about it is clearly there. The discussions will die when we burn ourselves out, and not a moment before. I’d recommend that the healthiest thing is to let the fever run its course.

 

[francis246]

I won't use it on the mobile anymore... aside from the stupid ads... it's that cycle it goes through, where everything you've typed disappears.

That is the most annoying thing! Screen just randomly refreshes and the novel I was writing is gone haha.