Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[DarkKnight]

It’s hard to shoot from the slot when you cling to the perimeter of the ice like you’re at your first swimming lesson holding on for dear life. So it all goes back to playing with fear.

Disagree, he had plenty of prime shooting opportunities, the problem was he deferred. Just look at the now famous Edmundson play.

""

And he doesn't have to praise him like that either. He is very competitive and tries hard, all the former players, teammates, see it, but here it's a different reality. I wish we could keep the criticism where it's warranted, instead we must demonize every aspect of his game. Well guess what, a playoff MVP knows better than frustrated fan.

 

[Leaf Fans]

""

What? ROR works for rocket security now?

 

[Stephen]

Disagree, he had plenty of prime shooting opportunities, the problem was he deferred. Just look at the now famous Edmundson play.


And he doesn't have to praise him like that either. He is very competitive and tries hard, all the former players, teammates, see it, but here it's a different reality. I wish we could keep the criticism where it's warranted, instead we must demonize every aspect of his game. Well guess what, a playoff MVP knows better than frustrated fan.

I’m sorry, the Joel Edmundson play is supposed to explain 8 years of playoff track record?

Sometimes reality is just what it appears to be. If Mitch is the most competitive guy, the most talented guy, and we have 4 of those guys and the team is well built and well coached, we wouldn’t have a 1-8 playoff record since 2017.

 

[bax]

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He clearly has no clue what he's talking about.

 

[notbias]

I've said it before and I'll say it again ....

If the Leafs used Marner during the regular season to play run and gun last goal wins to secure a playoff spot, and then put him in the pressbox for the playoffs, and use players willing to play in traffic and finish hits and play dump and chase to win physical puck battles they would be better off and what would they have to lose?

Marner's 1 goal and 2 assists in 7 games?

Marner needs a warning lable .. ** Regular Season Use Only *** Use at your own risk come playoff time.

This is by far the dumbest thing I've ever heard...

Use points as an argument, say that the unplayable player is the player who has the most points...

This post is a Mess, like usual.

 

[ACC1224]

He clearly has no clue what he's talking about.

Probably on the Marner payroll.

 

[DarkKnight]

I’m sorry, the Joel Edmundson play is supposed to explain 8 years of playoff track record?

Sometimes reality is just what it appears to be. If Mitch is the most competitive guy, the most talented guy, and we have 4 of those guys and the team is well built and well coached, we wouldn’t have a 1-8 playoff record since 2017.

No, but you're saying he isn't getting good looks, he is and he's deferring, rather than continuing or shooting. Nobody gets the same space or chances in the playoffs, it's what you do with when you do.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Obviously, Ryan O Reilly is a Marner fan boy. Just because he played with Marner doesn't make him have a legitimate opinion. The eye test outweighs any actual experience.

 

[Stephen]

No, but you're saying he isn't getting good looks, he is and he's deferring, rather than continuing or shooting. Nobody gets the same space or chances in the playoffs, it's what you do with when you do.

No I said he doesn’t go into high traffic areas because he plays scared. From all hockey watching experience does he come across as one of the braver guys out there? I don’t think the answer is yes.

 

[Fogelhund]

Marner is an elite level talent Winger, top 10 in points in the NHL over the past seven seasons. They don't grow on trees.

They all sucked in the playoffs.

The New coach wants a crack at changing that.

No amount of endless complaining, and whining about this playoffs unacceptable three points is going to change that. He's not getting traded. Get over it.

What exactly are people trying to accomplish here with this endless complaining about him? Perspective people.

October will come, he'll be excellent in the regular season, and maybe Berube can change the playoff result... or not... who knows.

GO outside, enjoy summer, or get to work...

Obviously, Ryan O Reilly is a Marner fan boy. Just because he played with Marner doesn't make him have a legitimate opinion. The eye test outweighs any actual experience.

Being a NHL player, knowing NHL talent... having you know, actual NHL knowledge is worthy of dismissal, when you have expertise such as arm chair hockey fans, who mostly haven't played above house league, and have an eye test that is superior, to those in the game. Right.

What were your thoughts on Mitch Marner when you got to know him?

Berube: He is a character guy. He is a great person. He is obviously a great player. I am looking forward to coaching him.

More knowledgeable than NHL Coaches too right....

 

[Leaf Fans]

Paul Marner trolling the media impersonating Ryan O'Reilly. Can he sink any lower.
Can someone post the video where we can base the entirety of Marner's game on no highlights please.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Marner is an elite level talent Winger, top 10 in points in the NHL over the past seven seasons. They don't grow on trees.

They all sucked in the playoffs.

The New coach wants a crack at changing that.

No amount of endless complaining, and whining about this playoffs unacceptable three points is going to change that. He's not getting traded. Get over it.

What exactly are people trying to accomplish here with this endless complaining about him? Perspective people.

October will come, he'll be excellent in the regular season, and maybe Berube can change the playoff result... or not... who knows.

GO outside, enjoy summer, or get to work...



Being a NHL player, knowing NHL talent... having you know, actual NHL knowledge is worthy of dismissal, when you have expertise such as arm chair hockey fans, who mostly haven't played above house league, and have an eye test that is superior, to those in the game. Right.

What were your thoughts on Mitch Marner when you got to know him?

Berube: He is a character guy. He is a great person. He is obviously a great player. I am looking forward to coaching him.

More knowledgeable than NHL Coaches too right....

Coaches? What do they know? Any coach worth their salt would have looked at statistics other than worthless actual production. Especially a coach who lucked in to a Stanley Cup by taking a bottom team to a Cup.

 

[thewave]

Must not have shot those pucks last summer... his scoring dropped a ton

Well he is with Hyman now. It takes some getting used to

""

ROR trolling the Leafs. Didnt want to stay haha

Paul Marner trolling the media impersonating Ryan O'Reilly. Can he sink any lower.
Can someone post the video where we can base the entirety of Marner's game on no highlights please.

Quid pro quo

 

[Stephen]

Marner is an elite level talent Winger, top 10 in points in the NHL over the past seven seasons. They don't grow on trees.

They all sucked in the playoffs.

The New coach wants a crack at changing that.

No amount of endless complaining, and whining about this playoffs unacceptable three points is going to change that. He's not getting traded. Get over it.

What exactly are people trying to accomplish here with this endless complaining about him? Perspective people.

October will come, he'll be excellent in the regular season, and maybe Berube can change the playoff result... or not... who knows.

GO outside, enjoy summer, or get to work...



Being a NHL player, knowing NHL talent... having you know, actual NHL knowledge is worthy of dismissal, when you have expertise such as arm chair hockey fans, who mostly haven't played above house league, and have an eye test that is superior, to those in the game. Right.

What were your thoughts on Mitch Marner when you got to know him?

Berube: He is a character guy. He is a great person. He is obviously a great player. I am looking forward to coaching him.

More knowledgeable than NHL Coaches too right....

At the end of the day, I think people lose track of the fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs are here entertainment purposes only. Hockey isn’t that serious.

But as an entertainment product this main cast is kinda stale, every year is predictably disappointing and at the very least it would be fun to see something different. For me, that superficiality is really the start and finish of why big changes could and should be made. We shouldn’t be wed to this project.

 

[Fogelhund]

At the end of the day, I think people lose track of the fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs are here entertainment purposes only. Hockey isn’t that serious.

But as an entertainment product this main cast is kinda stale, every year is predictably disappointing and at the very least it would be fun to see something different. For me, that superficiality is really the start and finish of why big changes could and should be made. We shouldn’t be wed to this project.

I wanted him traded before the draft... didn't happen. We put on our big boy (or girl... or whatever they/them put on), and move on.

The big changes we get are coaching, and D. Maybe it's enough, maybe it's not. I mean... those are big changes... not what we wanted of course, but then we hold children accountable to stop throwing tantrums when they didn't get what they want, and here people are still throwing tantrums weeks later.

Coaches? What do they know? Any coach worth their salt would have looked at statistics other than worthless actual production. Especially a coach who lucked in to a Stanley Cup by taking a bottom team to a Cup.

SO, just a troll account. Appreciate the candour.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I wanted him traded before the draft... didn't happen. We put on our big boy (or girl... or whatever they/them put on), and move on.

The big changes we get are coaching, and D. Maybe it's enough, maybe it's not. I mean... those are big changes... not what we wanted of course, but then we hold children accountable to stop throwing tantrums when they didn't get what they want, and here people are still throwing tantrums weeks later.


SO, just a troll account. Appreciate the candour.

 

[LeafGrief]

Disagree, he had plenty of prime shooting opportunities, the problem was he deferred. Just look at the now famous Edmundson play.


And he doesn't have to praise him like that either. He is very competitive and tries hard, all the former players, teammates, see it, but here it's a different reality. I wish we could keep the criticism where it's warranted, instead we must demonize every aspect of his game. Well guess what, a playoff MVP knows better than frustrated fan.

Except all the former players don't see it. This thread is full of quotes from different players with media jobs blasting Marner for his effort levels in the playoffs. O'Neil, Biz, Schmaltz, etc.

That some players are defending Marner, while others are raking him over the coals, is no different to what's going on in this very thread. This isn't some warped reality where guys with silly shark avatars wipe the drool off their keyboards before hitting submit on another Marner rant, this is just another place where the single most popular debate in Leafs nation is raging. We're still getting these articles on the 22nd of July because the entire hockey world is talking about this. O'Rielly has lots of credibility into the character of Marner because he's played with him recently, but this also runs into the problem of trying to convince people that we didn't watch Marner play a completely lifeless series with flybys galore.

The problem with this appeal to authority is that it's it's appealing to the wrong part of the discussion. The argument is 95% focused on whether or not the Leafs should trade Marner. O'Reilly's claim is about Marner's competitiveness, which is a tangential argument to the primary one of whether or not he should be traded. O'Reilly isn't saying the Leafs should or should not trade Marner, he's saying he's a very good player, which just about every single one of the "trade Marner" camp acknowledges.

I'm not going to outright call this an appeal to authority fallacy because O'Reilly is a credible authority on the aspect of which he spoke, but I think it's fair to point out that he's not talking about the actual issue at stake here, nor does his authority apply to this Boston series (he watched it on TV just like we did), nor does someone's assurance that Marner tries real hard means he actually tried real hard during a few specific games.

Marner wouldn't have made it as far in hockey as he has if he didn't know how to try. But attacking his compete levels during specific games or specific segments is absolutely warranted. I defended his effort levels during the travesty of the Montreal series, but this Boston series was completely different for him.

 

[HolyCrap]

At the end of the day, I think people lose track of the fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs are here entertainment purposes only. Hockey isn’t that serious.

But as an entertainment product this main cast is kinda stale, every year is predictably disappointing and at the very least it would be fun to see something different. For me, that superficiality is really the start and finish of why big changes could and should be made. We shouldn’t be wed to this project.

Absolutely. Been saying the samething but you will be labeled a hater if you even hint at a certain player being moved.

 

[Leaf Fans]

SO, just a troll account. Appreciate the candour.

Probably, Masters has been on the multi billion dollar Marner PR team since joining the National Post in 2010 and TSN a year later. I wouldn't take anything he says seriously. Toronto Sports Network - More like the Paul Marner Sports Network.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This thread is full of quotes from different players with media jobs blasting Marner

Of course. Once they get media jobs, their job is to get clicks. Blasting Marner gets clicks.

 

[QJo]

Pretty sure Domi is as much of a shooter as Marner, didnt stop him from ranking highly in shots/60 and ihdc.

Forgetting the shooter comment. Can you please show those stats for the regular season? That would be interesting to see.

 

[LeafGrief]

Of course. Once they get media jobs, their job is to get clicks. Blasting Marner gets clicks.

This page of the thread clearly demonstrates that defending Marner also gets you clicks. Articles for and against are all going to be high-traffic, high-engagement pieces right now.

 

[notbias]

Except all the former players don't see it. This thread is full of quotes from different players with media jobs blasting Marner for his effort levels in the playoffs. O'Neil, Biz, Schmaltz, etc.

What about current players or players who have played with him? People who would know? Surely there are tons as well.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm afraid to get in on this but we know he isn't a shooter. Can you show that same metric for the regular season when we know he is more effective.
I feel like you could actually be representing his drop off if that stat comparison shows it.
Also, that is career playoff right?

He only posted last playoffs, not career, and it's no different in the regular season. It doesn't represent anything other than a poster trying to misrepresent a playmaker's impact by picking out specific shooting-based microstats. According to the iHDCF/60 stat he brought out, our 2024 Hart nominees were the 10th, 11th, and 14th best forwards on each of their respective teams. Almost like it doesn't really capture the entirety of what they are and bring.

 

[Stephen]

Except all the former players don't see it. This thread is full of quotes from different players with media jobs blasting Marner for his effort levels in the playoffs. O'Neil, Biz, Schmaltz, etc.

That some players are defending Marner, while others are raking him over the coals, is no different to what's going on in this very thread. This isn't some warped reality where guys with silly shark avatars wipe the drool off their keyboards before hitting submit on another Marner rant, this is just another place where the single most popular debate in Leafs nation is raging. We're still getting these articles on the 22nd of July because the entire hockey world is talking about this. O'Rielly has lots of credibility into the character of Marner because he's played with him recently, but this also runs into the problem of trying to convince people that we didn't watch Marner play a completely lifeless series with flybys galore.

The problem with this appeal to authority is that it's it's appealing to the wrong part of the discussion. The argument is 95% focused on whether or not the Leafs should trade Marner. O'Reilly's claim is about Marner's competitiveness, which is a tangential argument to the primary one of whether or not he should be traded. O'Reilly isn't saying the Leafs should or should not trade Marner, he's saying he's a very good player, which just about every single one of the "trade Marner" camp acknowledges.

I'm not going to outright call this an appeal to authority fallacy because O'Reilly is a credible authority on the aspect of which he spoke, but I think it's fair to point out that he's not talking about the actual issue at stake here, nor does his authority apply to this Boston series (he watched it on TV just like we did), nor does someone's assurance that Marner tries real hard means he actually tried real hard during a few specific games.

Marner wouldn't have made it as far in hockey as he has if he didn't know how to try. But attacking his compete levels during specific games or specific segments is absolutely warranted. I defended his effort levels during the travesty of the Montreal series, but this Boston series was completely different for him.

This Marner Cycle goes on the same way every year. Public high profile playoff meltdown, raked over the coals, completely blasted in the media, mandatory purge trade. And then in the summer we get the temperature dialled down. Then we go into the regular season like nothing happened. Insofar as 2021 to 2024 had been a complete Groundhog Day from a fan experience, it’s the same for the player. Nothing learned, no lesson learned. No changes. It’s boring.