Proposal: Mitch Marner for Shea Theodore

[Stephen]

Correct so they're gonna either sign him or let him walk. He won't be traded. Why because no one can fit him in that's any good and the price is way too high for a skill winger that makes up 12.4% of the cap who's a playoff.ghost.

Basically.

 

[HawksDub89]

Toronto says yes 100%.
Marner is going to leave for nothing
Marner most likely says no tho

This

Toronto would be nuts to turn down this deal. Marner is going to leave for nothing next summer, if you can add another top 4 D to play the right side it’s a no brainer.

If anything I could see Vegas saying no to this. (Or Marner)

 

[HawksDub89]

You can tell you don't watch other teams play hockey.

And which teams haven’t watched winning playoff hockey.

Having a deep blue line is much more important than having a Marner type winger in the playoffs.

 

[TurgPavs]

Correct so they're gonna either sign him or let him walk. He won't be traded. Why because no one can fit him in that's any good and the price is way too high for a skill winger that makes up 12.4% of the cap who's a playoff. Ghost.

Points Per Game Playoffs
Marner .88 +10
Mathews .87 +2
M. Tkachuk .86 +1
Nylander .80 +1
Stamkos .79 -11

Man Marner sucks in the playoffs..........

 

[TurgPavs]

And which teams haven’t watched winning playoff hockey.

Having a deep blue line is much more important than having a Marner type winger in the playoffs.

I agree with this statement, but would add, to the importance of a deep Blue Line
-Team Defense, When Chicago won those 3 cups, the 3rd and 4th line, where absolutely physical shut down lines that played very good 2-way hockey. Handzus, Frolik, Bollard, Kruger, Madden, Shaw, Burish. Those guys all where solid 2 way forwards, the respective years they where in Chicago.
As a Blues fan it was brutal watching Chicago win, but when St. Louis won, in 19, it was with that same model, 3rd and 4th line's that shut down opponent's top line.

I dont think Toronto can win a cup with the way they are currently constructed. They improved their Blueline, this off season, but again they really dont have a top defensemen, and they dont have a solid 3rd or 4th line.

 

[ACC1224]

If they’re not going to re-sign him at a number he wants, it’s hard to for me to believe that he wouldn’t eventually waive his NTC. He sees firsthand how Islanders fans have treated John Tavares for walking to FA and preventing a trade that could’ve netted the team a significant return.

I’d imagine that if even if Marner leaves the Maple Leafs, he values his place in the Toronto community enough that he won’t completely torch that bridge on his way out of town.

You understand the situation is completely different than the Tavares one?
Tavares left, while Marner is happy to stay. You can't villainize a player for not wanting to leave.

 

[FerrisRox]

You understand the situation is completely different than the Tavares one?
Tavares left, while Marner is happy to stay. You can't villainize a player for not wanting to leave.

And yet, the very same fanbase tarred and feathered a great soldier like Mats Sundin for exactly that.

The entire "Muskoka Five" thing was about Toronto Maple Leafs, that had earned No Trade Clauses that didn't want to waive them.

When Mats Sundin said he didn't want to join a team at the deadline to chase the Cup, he was heavily slandered by the fanbase he had played his heart out for for years.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

And yet, the very same fanbase tarred and feathered a great soldier like Mats Sundin for exactly that.

The entire "Muskoka Five" thing was about Toronto Maple Leafs, that had earned No Trade Clauses that didn't want to waive them.

When Mats Sundin said he didn't want to join a team at the deadline to chase the Cup, he was heavily slandered by the fanbase he had played his heart out for for years.

And this is crazy wrong. You can’t blame players for signing NTCs or NMCs. You blame management. Why would players sign them if they didn’t want to stay and give their families stability?

Not to mention Sundin is now a legend in TO, no?

 

[bert]

Points Per Game Playoffs
Marner .88 +10
Mathews .87 +2
M. Tkachuk .86 +1
Nylander .80 +1
Stamkos .79 -11

Man Marner sucks in the playoffs..........

Watch a hockey game.

 

[TS Quint]

If they’re not going to re-sign him at a number he wants, it’s hard to for me to believe that he wouldn’t eventually waive his NTC. He sees firsthand how Islanders fans have treated John Tavares for walking to FA and preventing a trade that could’ve netted the team a significant return.

I’d imagine that if even if Marner leaves the Maple Leafs, he values his place in the Toronto community enough that he won’t completely torch that bridge on his way out of town.

What has Shannahan ever done to make you think he won't re sign Marner at Marner's price? They have continued the same path with Matthews and Nylander. Marner has out produced Nylander every single year and by a lot in every year but one. The question isn't if they sign Marner but for how much more than Nylander.

Marner didn't negotiate a NMC to appease the fans. He did it because he wants to be in Toronto and I don't see the Leafs letting him walk for nothing. That leaves one option, a whopper of a contract.

 

[bert]

You say in another post Theodore plays all situations. I guess 5:24 of pk time technically is “all situations” when compared to those who play Pk, but sure.

We have offensively minded d-men, we need better defensive ones. His numbers are good, but that’s about it. We keep Marner, even if we let him walk at the end of the season.

He's really good that's about it. Drives play in the playoffs, elevates when it matters most. You should try watching some time.

 

[seanlinden]

This "type" of deal would have likely needed to happen pre July-1, as there are 2 fairly substantial problems with it...

One being that Vegas can't really make it work cap wise, and two being that it would leave Toronto with an over-saturation of defencemen with glaring holes up front, and Vegas with a pretty big hole on their blueline.

 

[ACC1224]

And yet, the very same fanbase tarred and feathered a great soldier like Mats Sundin for exactly that.

The entire "Muskoka Five" thing was about Toronto Maple Leafs, that had earned No Trade Clauses that didn't want to waive them.

When Mats Sundin said he didn't want to join a team at the deadline to chase the Cup, he was heavily slandered by the fanbase he had played his heart out for for years.

Yes, fans were wrong then as well.

 

[T_Cage]

I'm in the minority of leafs fans, but I have no issue retaining on Marner for the right fit (and Vegas would need to balance the salary to get him under the cap, so.ita a nonstarter if we don't)

It would increase the price tho, so we are now talking Theodore+. Does VGK have any intriguing D prospects left?

 

[Nogatco Rd]

You understand the situation is completely different than the Tavares one?
Tavares left, while Marner is happy to stay. You can't villainize a player for not wanting to leave.

They’re different situations but with some details in common. The vitriol towards Tavares wasn’t just that he left, it’s that he remained non-committal about re-signing when many believe he had already made up his mind to leave. If he’d been upfront about that decision then the isles wouldn’t have been left empty handed with zero return on the most valuable asset to change hands that year.

If Marner knows he won’t sign what the leafs are offering (and this is obviously a hypothetical), then I think it will be seen as a selfish move to not waive the NTC and allow the Leafs to get some return rather than him walking for nothing. Not as big as the Tavares backlash but I believe it could still be a significant deterrent, especially to someone as image-conscious as Mitch Marner.

What has Shannahan ever done to make you think he won't re sign Marner at Marner's price? They have continued the same path with Matthews and Nylander. Marner has out produced Nylander every single year and by a lot in every year but one. The question isn't if they sign Marner but for how much more than Nylander.

Marner didn't negotiate a NMC to appease the fans. He did it because he wants to be in Toronto and I don't see the Leafs letting him walk for nothing. That leaves one option, a whopper of a contract.

I don’t know what Marner’s price is, do you?

 

[Leafshater67]

Toronto gains a legit first pairing D and a ton of cap space to resign Knies / add more depth. Mitch’s NMC / future demands will hurt his value a lot. They could retain some too for a pick. It makes sense.

 

[BlueAzN]

I’d trade Marner for a bag of pucks to get rid of that locker room cancer

 

[Canovin]

This would be a trade Toronto should be looking to make. You free up so much cap space that you can add top 6 player

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

No he isn't, they are different style players. Hanifin is a 2-way, fast skating, puck moving defenseman. Theodore is an offensive defenseman with serviceable defensive game. Theodore is a lot more similar to someone like Andersson or Montour than he is to Hanifin

Theodore is absolutely more dangerous offensively but to say he's better all around is flat out untrue. Theodore is not a good defensive player at all. Nor does he PK which Hanifin does.

Okay but if Theodore would to join the Leafs, he's instantly their #1dman. Thedore would be a #1D on about 8 or 9 teams right now. Can't say the same for Hanifin. Hanifin is solid defensively but I think he's a bit overrated. This is coming from someone who has watched him in Calgary the last 5 seasons. He's far from elite defensively and theodore's defensive game isn't as bad as many say. He was very good for them in their cup year.

The offensive gap between Theodore and Hanifin is much larger than their defensive gap.

 

[TS Quint]

I don’t know what Marner’s price is, do you?

I just know it more than Nylander who the Leafs ignored his body of work and paid him for his best season that to no one's surprise happened in his contract year. Marner was still more productive last year and far more productive every other year. Can't see it being less than $12m.

Marner is going to play out of his mind this year for his contract, just like Nylander did. Leafs fans will see it as a result of their new coach being brilliant and that was all Marner needed to turn a corner. Leafs fans will be ecstatic and down play all this trade "bitchy Mitchy" or we will be super mad non sense that has been going on since the end of the first round.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I'm in the minority of leafs fans, but I have no issue retaining on Marner for the right fit (and Vegas would need to balance the salary to get him under the cap, so.ita a nonstarter if we don't)

It would increase the price tho, so we are now talking Theodore+. Does VGK have any intriguing D prospects left?

Nor would I, and I'd like to get an extra piece (forward) back as well.

 

[um]

I’d rather keep Marner.

If we are trading Marner it would need to be for a Parayko, Ekholm type D and/or a 2C. Or replacement wing.

Offensive D don’t interest me.

Aren't the Leafs top 2 dman Rielly and Tanev?

Ya'll could definitely use a guy like Theodore. Way more than you could use Marner.

With the exception of the 2017 Pens who lost Letang for the playoffs, mediocre defences just do not win cups.

 

[Puckstuff]

Aren't the Leafs top 2 dman Rielly and Tanev?

Ya'll could definitely use a guy like Theodore. Way more than you could use Marner.

With the exception of the 2017 Pens who lost Letang for the playoffs, mediocre defences just do not win cups.

I'd rather target a cheaper #3/#4 D to play on the 2nd pair with McCabe and then we just keep Marner.

Rielly--Tanev
McCabe--top 4 D
OEL--Hakanpaa

 

[um]

I'd rather target a cheaper #3/#4 D to play on the 2nd pair with McCabe and then we just keep Marner.

Rielly--Tanev
McCabe--top 4 D
OEL--Hakanpaa

Makes sense.

I don't think any of OEL, Liljegren, Hakanpaa, and Benoit should be in the top 4 long term.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Aren't the Leafs top 2 dman Rielly and Tanev?

Ya'll could definitely use a guy like Theodore. Way more than you could use Marner.

With the exception of the 2017 Pens who lost Letang for the playoffs, mediocre defences just do not win cups.

On a contender, Tanev should be a #3 just like he was on Dallas. With the Leafs having Rielly and Tanev as their top 2 dmen, they are likely paired together for the entire season. So that means their D pairings will be pretty top heavy. Adding Theodore would greatly boost their 2nd pairing.

The Leafs are going to lean on Tanev heavily all season long and that may not be a good thing long term.