Mitch Marner discussion

[Aashir]

Why did the title change?
I liked the “Appreciation”

threads not full of it…but……never mind carry on debating the same 2.5 points back and forth

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why did the title change?
I liked the “Appreciation”

threads not full of it…but……never mind carry on debating the same 2.5 points back and forth

Time for a thread title debate maybe. How long has it been since we had one of those?

 

[Antropovsky]

For a player who is at risk of not making the NHL, and thus at risk of not receiving their full salary, then signing bonuses are more beneficial, because they are guaranteed that money regardless of where they play. This has no relevance to a player like Marner, who is guaranteed to be in the NHL and get his full salary regardless.

In a trade scenario, Marner would be worth more and the Leafs would have more options, as the actual salary cost of Marner for a receiving team would be less than his cap hit. This doesn't mean the intention is to trade, but it's always good to utilize any available options to increase the value of your assets.

The cap hit is probably lower than they expected, but that's because they likely expected well above market on an offer sheet, and they expected to sign Aho to an 8 year deal, not because 8.5m x 5 is below market value.

This is entirely wrong... money today is worth more than money tomorrow. Marner has a team helping him with business they certainly know this and understand its advantage even though you dont.

this proves the importance of posters having to defend their arguments, you have proven you know very little about this topic...and you were loling in your initial response?

There are people saying otherwise? Yikes! What can I say, my ignore list is the gift that keeps on giving.

Nobody said otherwise actually.

Uhh You didn't say otherwise (see bolded)? ... but you said signing bonuses have no relevance to Marner. Care to explain your definition of " no relevance" is because I think most have a different definition.

 

[Gallagbi]

This thread is a tire fire, but A+ job on the thread renaming

 

[Notsince67]

Who?

Rick Nash cap adj salary 11.3MM x 5
Thomas Vanek cap adj salary 11.6mm x 7
Ilya Kovalchuk cap adj salary 13.4MM x 5

 

[Gallagbi]

Rick Nash cap adj salary 11.3MM x 5
Thomas Vanek cap adj salary 11.6mm x 7
Ilya Kovalchuk cap adj salary 13.4MM x 5

They definitely got paid, but you could argue the first two were horrible deals that never should have been paid out

 

[Gary Nylund]

Uhh You didn't say otherwise (see bolded)? ... but you said signing bonuses have no relevance to Marner. Care to explain your definition of " no relevance" is because I think most have a different definition.

You lost me. I was agreeing with you that money today is worth more than money tomorrow and I'm surprised anyone could argue otherwise.

When did I say signing bonuses have no relevance to Marner?

 

[Smif]

Love me some Mitch.

 

[ACC1224]

Love me some Mitch.

That’s the spirit

 

[Antropovsky]

You lost me. I was agreeing with you that money today is worth more than money tomorrow and I'm surprised anyone could argue otherwise.

When did I say signing bonuses have no relevance to Marner?

I was refering to dekesfordays. You asked if somebody had said otherwise (to my post about money today vs money tomorrow) @Dekes For Days responded that "nobody said otherwise" but his direct quote is "signing bonuses have no revelance to Marner because Marner is guaranteed to be in the NHL and get his money in the end".

so im asking him what "no revelance" means. just proving a point that he just blows smoke and banks on nobody asking for proof of his claims.

 

[MR4]

If EDM blows up again and McDavid asks for a trade - would anyone say no to this?

McJesus, cap dumps for Marner, Muzzin, Mrazek, Amirov/Robertson, 1st

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Love him and miss him sorely too not just for his offense but his defense as well.

Also been in a bubble for exams or i would've responded earlier lmao

 

[Oscar Peterson]

If EDM blows up again and McDavid asks for a trade - would anyone say no to this?

McJesus, cap dumps for Marner, Muzzin, Mrazek, Amirov/Robertson, 1st

I wouldn't say no, that's how highly I think of McDavid

But to be honest I kind of have a feeling McDavid signs with us when he's a UFA so maybe no need to trade lol

 

[Buds17]

If EDM blows up again and McDavid asks for a trade - would anyone say no to this?

McJesus, cap dumps for Marner, Muzzin, Mrazek, Amirov/Robertson, 1st

I'd hopefully refuse to decline any trade that has the best player in it end up on the Leafs. Any potential concerns here for me would be in subtracting one of the biggest minute men on the blueline, and the safety net in goal, only to ultimately play a big money centre on the wing (Tavares, not McDavid).

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

How can you not love him? he's awesome.

It's nice to see the team can keep their heads above water without him but he is elite

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think if he signed for something like 8x8M and quickly, he would be (universally) beloved with this fan base. Instead he signed for more than that and gave less than max term...so I like the player but dislike the contract. He's a Leaf though at the end of the day, I would like to see him have success with the team, especially in the playoffs.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

How can you not love him? he's awesome.

It's nice to see the team can keep their heads above water without him but he is elite

I mean since Marner went down the whole team is playing terrible defense, turning the puck over in the slot, bleeding odd man rushes. It’s clear how much of an impact defensively Marner (and Spezza+Sandin) makes. This is coming from someone who has been a heavy critic of Marner.

At the end of the day Matthews might be our best player but Marner is the engine of this team

 

[Dekes For Days]

Uhh You didn't say otherwise (see bolded)? ... but you said signing bonuses have no relevance to Marner.

No, I said the situation being referenced had no relevance to Marner. The anecdote being used was about a player who got significant benefit from the signing bonus they got because they didn't stick in the NHL and finish playing out their contract. Because of that, the signing bonus caused a discrepancy in what he earned and what he would have earned without the signing bonus, because the signing bonus was not tied to his NHL status like his salary was.

I was discussing how for an NHL superstar like Marner with a guaranteed spot in the NHL, there is no risk of not receiving the contract in full, and so this anecdote wasn't relevant to how signing bonuses would impact Marner. Then you came in talking about time value of money and putting words in people's mouths...

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I like Marner the player
I don’t like the contract

him

This will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Mitch squeezed every f***ing penny from this team. I love the guy and what he brings, but he's incredibly selfish for what he did. He chose himself over the team. I'm no fan of Lou, and I mock him here quite frequently, but one thing he gets right is not caving on contract demands from players. Mitch hasn't shown up when it matters. You can't demand that type of money and be a nobody in the playoffs. Sorry for the rant boys.

 

[francis246]

This will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Mitch squeezed every f***ing penny from this team. I love the guy and what he brings, but he's incredibly selfish for what he did. He chose himself over the team. I'm no fan of Lou, and I mock him here quite frequently, but one thing he gets right is not caving on contract demands from players. Mitch hasn't shown up when it matters. You can't demand that type of money and be a nobody in the playoffs. Sorry for the rant boys.

Please go watch agent provocateur on SDPN. That will literally shut 90% of this fan base up. It’s all the agent. The players do not get involved in negotiation, except for minor details NTC, structure of the contract (bonuses vs base salaey). Agents bring them the number, players usually says yes or no. Most of the time it’s a yes. The players input usually comes when it’s time to pick a location. Otherwise they leave the numbers to their agent.

Never once have you heard a number figure come out of Marners mouth. Yet people continue to blame him for most likely saying yes to an offer that the LEAFS GAVE HIM. Anyone that says they would say no, when the team is offering you 10.93 million is actually bold face lying.

at the end of the day, regardless of what you think. All players are paid based on regular season performance and their future potential. No one is really paid for playoffs and they never have been. It’s a dumb narrative that this fanbase has made up because they don’t like the contract. Well too bad. He’s here and he’s here to stay.

 

[francis246]

No, I said the situation being referenced had no relevance to Marner. The anecdote being used was about a player who got significant benefit from the signing bonus they got because they didn't stick in the NHL and finish playing out their contract. Because of that, the signing bonus caused a discrepancy in what he earned and what he would have earned without the signing bonus, because the signing bonus was not tied to his NHL status like his salary was.

I was discussing how for an NHL superstar like Marner with a guaranteed spot in the NHL, there is no risk of not receiving the contract in full, and so this anecdote wasn't relevant to how signing bonuses would impact Marner. Then you came in talking about time value of money and putting words in people's mouths...

there is risk. The bonuses helps them get paid if there is a lockout or like we saw with the pandemic where you have to get paid a prorated contract. It also I believe lowers the amount of escrow you have to pay back to the league if you get paid in bonuses because your base salary is lower. So there is a significant reason why a lot of players prefer a bonus heavy contract structure.

 

[ToneDog]

Please go watch agent provocateur on SDPN. That will literally shut 90% of this fan base up. It’s all the agent. The players do not get involved in negotiation, except for minor details NTC, structure of the contract (bonuses vs base salaey). Agents bring them the number, players usually says yes or no. Most of the time it’s a yes. The players input usually comes when it’s time to pick a location. Otherwise they leave the numbers to their agent.

Never once have you heard a number figure come out of Marners mouth. Yet people continue to blame him for most likely saying yes to an offer that the LEAFS GAVE HIM. Anyone that says they would say no, when the team is offering you 10.93 million is actually bold face lying.

at the end of the day, regardless of what you think. All players are paid based on regular season performance and their future potential. No one is really paid for playoffs and they never have been. It’s a dumb narrative that this fanbase has made up because they don’t like the contract. Well too bad. He’s here and he’s here to stay.

You may want to wait to see what the team does in the playoffs.

 

[ACC1224]

I mean since Marner went down the whole team is playing terrible defense, turning the puck over in the slot, bleeding odd man rushes. It’s clear how much of an impact defensively Marner (and Spezza+Sandin) makes. This is coming from someone who has been a heavy critic of Marner.

At the end of the day Matthews might be our best player but Marner is the engine of this team

https://thehockeywriters.com/marner-most-valuable-maple-leafs-core-four/

Without Marner In the Lineup the Maple Leafs Suffer Defensively
Does this analysis mean that the Maple Leafs are that much better defensively with Marner in the lineup; or, is it a coincidence? It’s difficult to answer this question conclusively.
However, although many factors come into play when any given player is injured and out of the lineup for a period of time, it’s interesting to see that the Maple Leafs winning percentage drops by almost .200% from .621% to .432% without Marner in the lineup.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I was refering to dekesfordays. You asked if somebody had said otherwise (to my post about money today vs money tomorrow) @Dekes For Days responded that "nobody said otherwise" but his direct quote is "signing bonuses have no revelance to Marner because Marner is guaranteed to be in the NHL and get his money in the end".

so im asking him what "no revelance" means. just proving a point that he just blows smoke and banks on nobody asking for proof of his claims.

It was a rhetorical question - I figured based on the conversation that someone on my ignore list had said it, that's why IIRC I mentioned my ignore list in my post.

If EDM blows up again and McDavid asks for a trade - would anyone say no to this?

McJesus, cap dumps for Marner, Muzzin, Mrazek, Amirov/Robertson, 1st

Too easy. I didn't have to think about this for more than about 2 seconds which probably means we'd have to make a better offer than that.

at the end of the day, regardless of what you think. All players are paid based on regular season performance and their future potential. No one is really paid for playoffs and they never have been. It’s a dumb narrative that this fanbase has made up because they don’t like the contract. Well too bad. He’s here and he’s here to stay.

That's true. It's also true that everyone wants to win the cup so whenever the discussion turns to what kind of a cap hit a player is worth from a fans point of view, playoff performance is obviously a huge part of the discussion. Players don't get paid for the playoffs because if they did, nobody would be willing to play for bad teams that are sure to miss the playoffs. The owners care about making money but for fans of the game, everyone knows that playoffs are what really matters.

I've heard so many players say that they grew up dreaming of winning the Stanley cup. I've yet to hear anyone say that they grew up dreaming of winning the presidents trophy and I'm pretty sure I never will.

 

[Zybalto]

Glad they are getting some bounces against weak/struggling teams as the Leafs just arnt the same team without one of the most complete wingers in the game.

Up until the injury:

17-6-1 and really rolling with the western sweep and an 8-3 drubbing of the Avs just before the injury.
Shot Differential: 52.84 (7th in the NHL)
xGF: 57.02 (1st in the NHL)
Goal Differential: 58.73 (3rd in the NHL)

Since the injury:

3-2-1 with some good bounces helping us get the wins.
Shot Differential: 49.40 (17th in the NHL)
xGF: 49.28 (17th in the NHL)
Goal Differential: 51.06 (15th in the NHL)

I understand we all wish he had a lower cap hit but it's also hard to reason out how we could better spend 10 million. An incredible player and hope he comes back soon.