Mitch Marner Discussion Continued

[Stephen]

Continue.

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[Racer88]

Grrrrrrrr, that all I have left. Lol

 

[ACC1224]

Continue.

Why?

 

[Dekes For Days]

They haven't shown they can play well and produce

That's not true at all. They have all shown they can play well in the playoffs, and they have all also produced well in a playoff series before, even in some of the hardest situations to produce.

How about total lack of compete in the biggest games.

I'd rather talk about things that are actually true, instead of misrepresenting a lack of conversion as a lack of effort/compete.

Goaltending - so now both CBJ and Montreal beat us because of goaltending...

Both unquestionably got amazing goaltending, against us and after us, and it was the main contributing factor in their wins. You can be disappointed in a result and still acknowledge the truth about what happened.

I wonder when you'll actually admit the core is not constructed properly.

There's no evidence that there's anything wrong with our core.

Absolutely lack of effort in the deciding games the last two playoffs.

No, people just tend to blame effort when they don't like a result, when it usually has nothing to do with that. People don't like feeling like they aren't 100% in control of everything.

3 years of playoffs lack of production for Marner is not a dry spell it is a trend of what he is.

People exaggerate how "dry" it's been, and we're also talking about just 19 games. Players aren't defined by 19 games. Once again, every star other than Nylander that faced Montreal this year had underwhelming production.

Tampa has played in the playoffs last few years:

Tampa has faced some good defensive teams, though not all of the teams you named are as good as you probably think, and Toronto has still faced an overall higher quality of defense and better goaltending over that time. Tampa has done very well the past two years, though I think that's pretty obvious. Every team is going to look bad if you're comparing playoffs with the back-to-back Cup champions who utilized a cap loophole to give themselves a massive advantage.

 

[Racer88]

That's not true at all. They have all shown they can play well in the playoffs, and they have all also produced well in a playoff series before, even in some of the hardest situations to produce.

I'd rather talk about things that are actually true, instead of misrepresenting a lack of conversion as a lack of effort/compete.

Both unquestionably got amazing goaltending, against us and after us, and it was the main contributing factor in their wins. You can be disappointed in a result and still acknowledge the truth about what happened.

There's no evidence that there's anything wrong with our core.

No, people just tend to blame effort when they don't like a result, when it usually has nothing to do with that. People don't like feeling like they aren't 100% in control of everything.

People exaggerate how "dry" it's been, and we're also talking about just 19 games. Players aren't defined by 19 games. Once again, every star other than Nylander that faced Montreal this year had underwhelming production.

Tampa has faced some good defensive teams, though not all of the teams you named are as good as you probably think, and Toronto has still faced an overall higher quality of defense and better goaltending over that time. Tampa has done very well the past two years, though I think that's pretty obvious. Every team is going to look bad if you're comparing playoffs with the back-to-back Cup champions who utilized a cap loophole to give themselves a massive advantage.

19 games of playoff drought for Marner it has been almost 3 years of-playoffs. That kinda shoots down the he will figure it out idea using you excuse of it only been 19 games almost 1 full season of PP time with only 1 goal to show for it even though. He gets some of the best most PP minutes scream I am not an 11 million dollar player. These previous stats are actual historical fact not projected or expected…….they actually happened

 

[Curt]

Remember the effort level Marner has showed in the last 2 playoff series?

that’s your top 5 paid nhl player folks


Selfish clown

 

[Curt]

19 games of playoff drought for Marner it has been almost 3 years of-playoffs. That kinda shoots down the he will figure it out idea using you excuse of it only been 19 games almost 1 full season of PP time with only 1 goal to show for it even though. He gets some of the best most PP minutes scream I am not an 11 million dollar player. These previous stats are actual historical fact not projected or expected…….they actually happened

anyone who thinks marner will be any better next season is absolutely delusional. He will never go to the Center of the ice. He will never go in a corner

 

[Gabriel426]

Having a feeling we can just recycle the old thread next year bc it will be the same old story.
Hope I am wrong, though.

 

[Gabriel426]

anyone who thinks marner will be any better next season is absolutely delusional. He will never go to the Center of the ice. He will never go in a corner

I think as long as he doesn’t flip the puck over the glass during PK is already an improvement.

 

[Amadeus]

If Nurse gets 9.2 Mitch is fully deserving of the contract.

 

[Bluelines]

Continue.

Why?

 

[Gabriel426]

That's not true at all. They have all shown they can play well in the playoffs, and they have all also produced well in a playoff series before, even in some of the hardest situations to produce.

I'd rather talk about things that are actually true, instead of misrepresenting a lack of conversion as a lack of effort/compete.

Both unquestionably got amazing goaltending, against us and after us, and it was the main contributing factor in their wins. You can be disappointed in a result and still acknowledge the truth about what happened.

There's no evidence that there's anything wrong with our core.

No, people just tend to blame effort when they don't like a result, when it usually has nothing to do with that. People don't like feeling like they aren't 100% in control of everything.

People exaggerate how "dry" it's been, and we're also talking about just 19 games. Players aren't defined by 19 games. Once again, every star other than Nylander that faced Montreal this year had underwhelming production.

Tampa has faced some good defensive teams, though not all of the teams you named are as good as you probably think, and Toronto has still faced an overall higher quality of defense and better goaltending over that time. Tampa has done very well the past two years, though I think that's pretty obvious. Every team is going to look bad if you're comparing playoffs with the back-to-back Cup champions who utilized a cap loophole to give themselves a massive advantage.

Don’t discredit TB for winning back to back Cups.
They deserve their Cups. Kuch is literally the best player in the league beside McD and Mack and actually played like it. Vas is amazing, Cooper knows what he is doing, their whole team brought in the playoffs concept.
The goal for the Leafs is not to win a round, it is to win the Cup. As of now, all teams need to go through TB for the Cup.

 

[Bluelines]

Remember the effort level Marner has showed in the last 2 playoff series?

that’s your top 5 paid nhl player folks


Selfish clown

Remember some people are just angry and curt by nature... we ignore those people.

Great athlete, 2nd highest scorer from his draft year. We are lucky to have him.

Why do people conflate effort and results? If anything Marner was trying too hard, not playing his dipsy doodle game. Sometimes less is more.

 

[Stephen]

Don’t discredit TB for winning back to back Cups.
They deserve their Cups. Kuch is literally the best player in the league beside McD and Mack and actually played like it. Vas is amazing, Cooper knows what he is doing, their whole team brought in the playoffs concept.
The goal for the Leafs is not to win a round, it is to win the Cup. As of now, all teams need to go through TB for the Cup.

If I ever learned anything in these Player X vs Player Y debates, the “less convincing” side is always the one that argues for the player on the worse team, doing less, trying to equalize the two side because the other guy has so much help on a championship.

Didn’t work when it was Potvin vs Brodeur, didn’t work when it was Sundin vs Forsberg, didn’t work when it was Kessel vs Kane and up to this point, Marner vs Point.

Having individual success surrounded by other great teams while winning titles is the whole point of the exercise.

 

[Dekes For Days]

19 games of playoff drought for Marner it has been almost 3 years of-playoffs.

It's a 12 point in 19 game stretch, through some of the worst situations to produce. That does not define him.

That kinda shoots down the he will figure it out idea

His 9 points in 7 games before this period you're referencing shoots down your "this is just who he is" idea then. You're so focused on what happened that you're unwilling to understand why it's happening.

almost 1 full season of PP time with only 1 goal to show for it even though. He gets some of the best most PP minutes

This gets so exaggerated. The PP as a whole just went through the worst stretch of their careers, and he's not a PP goal scorer. That's not the role he takes on the PP. He also does not get high PP minutes for a player of his quality, so not sure what you mean by that. You're ignoring the things that make him an elite player to focus on the one thing he never was. He just had a career goal-scoring season at ES, for the record.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Don’t discredit TB for winning back to back Cups.

I didn't discredit Tampa for winning back to back cups. They're a great team, and I never said otherwise.

As of now, all teams need to go through TB for the Cup.

Actually, no team has to go through that Tampa anymore. That Tampa doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I think Marner will improve mentality over time. The question is if it'll be enough to outperform the contract. I certainly foresee Mitch having playoff success...I hope it's while he's on our team

 

[Gabriel426]

I didn't discredit Tampa for winning back to back cups. They're a great team, and I never said otherwise.

Actually, no team has to go through that Tampa anymore. That Tampa doesn't exist anymore.

What are you even talking about?

TB is the current Champs.

They lost their third line, but still they are still the Champs.

 

[Gabriel426]

If I ever learned anything in these Player X vs Player Y debates, the “less convincing” side is always the one that argues for the player on the worse team, doing less, trying to equalize the two side because the other guy has so much help on a championship.

Didn’t work when it was Potvin vs Brodeur, didn’t work when it was Sundin vs Forsberg, didn’t work when it was Kessel vs Kane and up to this point, Marner vs Point.

Having individual success surrounded by other great teams while winning titles is the whole point of the exercise.

No doubt about it.
CR7 was never consider GOAT status until he won Euros. Until two months ago, the biggest knock on Messi was International Success.
Sinclair is an Olympic Champs and that to me put her in the same conversation with Marta and others in being the GOAT in Women Football/Soccer.

 

[Dekes For Days]

TB is the current Champs.

Yes, with a team that no longer exists.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yes, with a team that no longer exists.

You do you, bro.

 

[IPS]

This gets so exaggerated. The PP as a whole just went through the worst stretch of their careers, and he's not a PP goal scorer. That's not the role he takes on the PP. He also does not get high PP minutes for a player of his quality, so not sure what you mean by that. You're ignoring the things that make him an elite player to focus on the one thing he never was. He just had a career goal-scoring season at ES, for the record.

The PP went through one of the worst stretches because Matthews and Marner couldn't create anything. They are the ones responsible for making the PP click.

Is there any accountability in your mind at all? May as well just blame Freddy for the shitty PP too.

 

[IPS]

If Nurse gets 9.2 Mitch is fully deserving of the contract.

Terrible GM's do exist other places, thankfully.

 

[pucksakes666]

Hopefully Marner sees a sports psychologist that tells him he doesn’t have to make spin o Rama passes and such every time he has to pick and maybe actually shoot

 

[PromisedLand]