Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VII | The Saga Continues

[WestCoastLeafs]

It's being outright reported by Lebraun that Ferris and Marner are expected to meet with teams.

I get that you may not want to hear that, but eventually need to take the head out of the sand at some point.

Edit: typo

Pierre or James?

There's still a typo

 

[ShaneFalco]

I am okay with that. I just hope that this perception of Marner being a good old Toronto kid who loves playing for the Leafs is done with after he meets with other teams.

The guy who really just wanted to play for Toronto and was afraid he would be shipped out the door was Nylander. He or his agent didn't negotiate with the media. They kept it quiet. Dubas even admitted that he made a mistake in the Nylander negotiations and they could have been done well before December.

Agreed
Despite what a select few will tell you it's ok to have soured on Mitch

 

[Pi]

LOL, what a ridiculous take, dude.

How? He's likely looking at 70M+ on an 8 year deal and wants to squeeze out more $$ from the Leafs. He likely wants more than his comparable and thinks of himself as comparable to Matthews who is much more valuable.

Leafs aren't forcing him to take a team friendly deal. They just want him to take a deal in line with other wingers who accomplished the same.

 

[Walshy7]

LOL, what a ridiculous take, dude.

Why? It’s clear if he meets with other teams he isn’t a good ol Toronto kid dreaming of playing with the leafs. He is an elite nhl Player who it doesn’t matter where is from now. The hometown angle didn’t work if you are going to f*** around demanding ridiculous contracts

 

[MyBudJT]

I mean, you have to look at what's normal behavior. UFAs meet with other teams. It is perfectly reasonable and normal. RFAs don't solicit other offers to try to screw their team over. Marner is a pioneer

Again, the "normal behaviour" is changing. I didn't like it at first either, but once I grasped that concept, I'll live with it.

RFAs have the exact same right that UFAs do to meet with other teams.

Also, this isn't the first time an RFA has met with other teams. I don't know of recent examples (probably because they weren't players that played in a market like Toronto), but guys like Weber and Vanek must have met with other teams when they signed their offer sheets.

 

[MyBudJT]

How? He's likely looking at 70M+ on an 8 year deal and wants to squeeze out more $$ from the Leafs. He likely wants more than his comparable and thinks of himself as comparable to Matthews who is much more valuable.

Leafs aren't forcing him to take a team friendly deal. They just want him to take a deal in line with other wingers who accomplished the same.

If you use Kane as a comparable (5x9), then on an 8 year deal, he should be looking for minimum 80M.

Its debatable whether Matthews is a lot more valueable going forward, TBH. If Matthews has an injury riddled career, than we are in trouble.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Again, the "normal behaviour" is changing. I didn't like it at first either, but once I grasped that concept, I'll live with it.

RFAs have the exact same right that UFAs do to meet with other teams.

Also, this isn't the first time an RFA has met with other teams. I don't know of recent examples (probably because they weren't players that played in a market like Toronto), but guys like Weber and Vanek must have met with other teams when they signed their offer sheets.

Sure, they met with other teams who went to them. I don't recall them publicly asking for offers. And unsurprisingly, neither are still on their original teams because it poisons relationships

 

[MyBudJT]

Why? It’s clear if he meets with other teams he isn’t a good ol Toronto kid dreaming of playing with the leafs. He is an elite nhl Player who it doesn’t matter where is from now. The hometown angle didn’t work if you are going to **** around demanding ridiculous contracts

Just becasue you're talking to other teams doesn't mean you don't love playing for the Leafs. Its a ridiculous take.

 

[Pi]

Again, the "normal behaviour" is changing. I didn't like it at first either, but once I grasped that concept, I'll live with it.

RFAs have the exact same right that UFAs do to meet with other teams.

Also, this isn't the first time an RFA has met with other teams. I don't know of recent examples (probably because they weren't players that played in a market like Toronto), but guys like Weber and Vanek must have met with other teams when they signed their offer sheets.

And how did both those scenarios end? In a trade before their contracts were up.

He's more than welcome to sign an offer sheet if he finds someone idiotic enough to give him 11M+.

What will more than likely happen is that a team will give him an offer sheet for the sole purpose of screwing the Leafs cap space (10.5M for 5 years or so) which the Leafs will have no option but to accept. So they will, and they will look to trade him the first chance they get.

 

[MyBudJT]

And how did both those scenarios end? In a trade before their contracts were up.

He's more than welcome to sign an offer sheet if he finds someone idiotic enough to give him 11M+.

What will more than likely happen is that a team will give him an offer sheet for the sole purpose of screwing the Leafs cap space (10.5M for 5 years or so) which the Leafs will have no option but to accept. So they will, and they will look to trade him the first chance they get.

I don't think thats the most likely scenerio myself.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Why? It’s clear if he meets with other teams he isn’t a good ol Toronto kid dreaming of playing with the leafs. He is an elite nhl Player who it doesn’t matter where is from now. The hometown angle didn’t work if you are going to **** around demanding ridiculous contracts

You're not allowed to feel that way

 

[Walshy7]

Just becasue you're talking to other teams doesn't mean you don't love playing for the Leafs. Its a ridiculous take.

That’s exactly what it means. He likes playing for the leafs but if someone offers more he’d leave how is that loving playing for the leafs. The angle that he is a hometown kid dreaming of a up with the leafs goes out the window when he is out looking for max deals from anyone who’d be interested

 

[Walshy7]

You're not allowed to feel that way

Am I wrong here? How can anyone say he loves playing for the leafs? If he is willing to leave the leafs over money?

 

[MyBudJT]

That’s exactly what it means. He likes playing for the leafs but if someone offers more he’d leave how is that loving playing for the leafs. The angle that he is a hometown kid dreaming of a up with the leafs goes out the window when he is out looking for max deals from anyone who’d be interested

How do we know bolded is true?

Lets say Leafs are offering 9.5M x 6.

Another team is willing to sign him at 10M x 5.

Do we really don't know what option Marner would pick right now? The 10M x 5 is the better option, no doubt. Be he might decide that the 500K difference isn't worth it.

Who knows, we don't know any of this yet.

 

[Suntouchable13]

If you wanna win, you have to be able to make a financial sacrifice. Even if you don't win, you're still filthy rich regardless.

 

[Pi]

That’s exactly what it means. He likes playing for the leafs but if someone offers more he’d leave how is that loving playing for the leafs. The angle that he is a hometown kid dreaming of a up with the leafs goes out the window when he is out looking for max deals from anyone who’d be interested

Yeah and he's totally within his rights to do that but then don't give us the BS about how much you love playing for Toronto when you are looking for the highest bidder.

You know someone who does love playing for the Leafs? John Tavares. The guy gave up a reported 13M/ year deal from San Jose to play for the Leafs. That's 14 million dollars over 7 years.

He even signed one of the most team friendly second year contracts with the Islanders even when his agent told him that waiting would result in more $$. The guy loved playing for the Islanders and realized that the team was basically nothing without him and still didn't leverage that power to sign a better deal.

No one is asking Marner to do that. Just sign a deal that is comparable to guys like Patrick Kane in their second contract because you've accomplished the same or worse.

 

[Walshy7]

How do we know bolded is true?

Lets say Leafs are offering 9.5M x 6.

Another team is willing to sign him at 10M x 5.

Do we really don't know what option Marner would pick right now? The 10M x 5 is the better option, no doubt. Be he might decide that the 500K difference isn't worth it.

Who knows, we don't know any of this yet.

In your above scenario the player wouldn’t be in 2 minds about $500k he’d sign with his beloved leafs. The leafs have offered something and it’s safe to assume it’s well within reason at this point in negotiations. If the deal is within reason a player that loved a team would sign it l. Not make stupid statements about comparables not being comparables

 

[Walshy7]

Yeah and he's totally within his rights to do that but then don't give us the BS about how much you love playing for Toronto when you are looking for the highest bidder.

You know someone who does love playing for the Leafs? John Tavares. The guy gave up a reported 13M/ year deal from San Jose to play for the Leafs. That's 14 million dollars over 7 years.

He even signed one of the most team friendly second year contracts with the Islanders even when his agent told him that waiting would result in more $$. The guy loved playing for the Islanders and realized that the team was basically nothing without him and still didn't leverage that power to sign a better deal.

No one is asking Marner to do that. Just sign a deal that is comparable to guys like Patrick Kane in their second contract because you've accomplished the same or worse.

Yeah 100% it’s his right. You can’t play the hometown boy angle after that though.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Am I wrong here? How can anyone say he loves playing for the leafs? If he is willing to leave the leafs over money?

Nope it's all bs at this point

 

[MyBudJT]

In your above scenario the player wouldn’t be in 2 minds about $500k he’d sign with his beloved leafs. The leafs have offered something and it’s safe to assume it’s well within reason at this point in negotiations. If the deal is within reason a player that loved a team would sign it l. Not make stupid statements about comparables not being comparables

Marner hasn't come out and said "I'm not signing with the Leafs".

IF / WHEN he talks to other teams, its a measure to make sure the Leafs aren't being to cheap. If a team (or two or three) is willing to offer him 10.566 x 5, and the Leafs are stuck at 9x5. Then, yeah... he does have a strong case to sign an offersheet.

Especially considering you've signed 61 point Nylander to 7M.

This is his right in the CBA.

 

[Walshy7]

Marner hasn't come out and said "I'm not signing with the Leafs".

IF / WHEN he talks to other teams, its a measure to make sure the Leafs aren't being to cheap. If a team (or two or three) is willing to offer him 10.566 x 5, and the Leafs are stuck at 9x5. Then, yeah... he does have a strong case to sign an offersheet.

Especially considering you've signed 61 point Nylander to 7M.

This is his right in the CBA.

Are you arguing the same thing thing? Of course it is his right I am saying exercising that right shows you are not interested in the hometown boy angle. It’s pretty simple concept, the boy who grew up being a cup winner with his team wouldn’t be entertaining offersheets essentially to the highest bidder.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Why? It’s clear if he meets with other teams he isn’t a good ol Toronto kid dreaming of playing with the leafs. He is an elite nhl Player who it doesn’t matter where is from now. The hometown angle didn’t work if you are going to **** around demanding ridiculous contracts

A hometown discount probably means a 6 year term versus 5 years at this stage.

 

[MyBudJT]

Are you arguing the same thing thing? Of course it is his right I am saying exercising that right shows you are not interested in the hometown boy angle. It’s pretty simple concept, the boy who grew up being a cup winner with his team wouldn’t be entertaining offersheets essentially to the highest bidder.

No, it doesn't mean that.

I'm sorry, but do you expect a hometown boy to take a 1.5M discount, just to stay with his local team?

Just becasue Marner may explore options by talking to other teams doesn't mean he doesn't love playing for Toronto.

 

[ShaneFalco]

It’s Paul Marners right to go to the media, it’s his agents right to go to the media and say he’s being lowballed - doesn’t mean it’s not a dick move

 

[Walshy7]

No, it doesn't mean that.

I'm sorry, but do you expect a hometown boy to take a 1.5M discount, just to stay with his local team?

Just becasue Marner may explore options by talking to other teams doesn't mean he doesn't love playing for Toronto.

I don’t expect any discount but exploring options is exactly the position someone who is money first would take.

I get it you love marner is from the gta if he is out there seeking $11m + he doesn’t love toronto. He isn’t worth that, he isn’t searching for his worth he is searching for validation for he and his dads egos