Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[ACC1224]

Agree but at the same time, it was a really bad quote like I really couldn’t think of anything worse that anyone(any players in any sports) could said after a loss like last night.

The opposing team was on the back of a back to back, didn’t arrive till 6 1/2 hours before the game due to snow storm delay. While also in a slump plus infighting among their top two players.

For a guy known for making dumb quotes I’m sure he could have come up with something much worse.

Sure, but in the context of the discussion about people overreacting, I don't think people get this emotional about the other players. For example the Matthews thread has 3 posts so far today. We are on our third page largely because of emotional responses to a trivial quote.

Marner froth is good for business, no doubt about that.

 

[Gabriel426]

Sure, but in the context of the discussion about people overreacting, I don't think people get this emotional about the other players. For example the Matthews thread has 3 posts so far today. We are on our third page largely because of emotional responses to a trivial quote.

Pretty sure if JT makes his famous quote, it was a good lesson, there will be a few pages in his thread too.

The other thing is that some here are trying to play down the quote. It was a really bad quote and the scary part is not the quote in itself but rather, does he and the other core think and believe that.

For a guy known for making dumb quotes I’m sure he could have come up with something much worse.


Marner froth is good for business, no doubt about that.

I really don’t want him to top this quote

 

[ACC1224]

Pretty sure if JT makes his famous quote, it was a good lesson, there will be a few pages in his thread too.

The other thing is that some here are trying to play down the quote. It was a really bad quote and the scary part is not the quote in itself but rather, does he and the other core think and believe that.


I really don’t want him to top this quote

Just meaningless words.

 

[likecheese]

Pretty sure if JT makes his famous quote, it was a good lesson, there will be a few pages in his thread too.

The other thing is that some here are trying to play down the quote. It was a really bad quote and the scary part is not the quote in itself but rather, does he and the other core think and believe that.


I really don’t want him to top this quote

That's what makes this kind of thing more than a meaningless quote, there's been fatal flaws over and over with this core group of players and this seems to reflect an underlying attitude that accepts that failure on the ice isn't a big deal as long as those paychecks keep rolling.

 

[PromisedLand]

Question to be asked is that after 9 years of seeing and hearing everything i.e.

1. shambles in the brain
2. gods in town
3. we did quite well
4. bounces
5. throwing gloves on the bench "stop crying bro - this isn't f***ing junior"
6. losing to zamboni driver
7. Blowing 3-1 series lead to MTL with habs colors on CN Tower
8. 1st round exits
9. etc...

In your opinion as fans is it worth investing 12 to 14 (or something in between) AAV long term on the player?

Matthews at 13.25 AAV is overpaid
Nylander at 11.5 AAV is overpaid

With Drai signing a 14 AAV deal, Is it worth investing anywhere between 12AAV to 14AAV in Marner for long term?


And if he tests the market and there is some moronic team willing to give Marner 14+ AAV for 7 years, should Leafs try to match?

 

[GoonieFace]

Does anyone know the froth level after this game?

 

[Hallonbroder]

Question to be asked is that after 9 years of seeing and hearing everything i.e.

1. shambles in the brain
2. gods in town
3. we did quite well
4. bounces
5. throwing gloves on the bench "stop crying bro - this isn't f***ing junior"
6. losing to zamboni driver
7. Blowing 3-1 series lead to MTL with habs colors on CN Tower
8. 1st round exits
9. etc...

In your opinion as fans is it worth investing 12 to 14 (or something in between) AAV long term on the player?

Matthews at 13.25 AAV is overpaid
Nylander at 11.5 AAV is overpaid

With Drai signing a 14 AAV deal, Is it worth investing anywhere between 12AAV to 14AAV in Marner for long term?


And if he tests the market and there is some moronic team willing to give Marner 14+ AAV for 7 years, should Leafs try to match?

His dad, as well as some other posters in this thread, would give him 15 if Marner asked for it

 

[Gary Nylund]

Some of yall are crazy. Having a bad quote is exactly that. It was a bad awful quote for him to say after their effort level. But what’s with the insults? You are #1 in terms of wanting other posters to stop using childish insults but you use them non stop. Pretty hypocritical.

The fact of the matter is we should stop guessing on what type of person Marner is, also who cares if he’s a good guy or dumb. Is he doing his part on the ice? that’s the only part I’m concerned about. The constant need to tear down players whether it’s Nylander or Marner is getting old.

I've said many, many times that I don't care how many dumb things Marner says to the media, just bring it in the playoffs.

 

[francis246]

I've said many, many times that I don't care how many dumb things Marner says to the media, just bring it in the playoffs.

If this was true, you wouldn’t be calling him a loser and all the other stuff. For someone who says they don’t care much about the “dumb things he says” you have a lot to say about it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Taney said the ‘effort was there’, not really much different

Saying the effort was there and saying we played well are actually two completely different things. He said something dumb, it's not the first time and it won't be the last but it's not that big a deal so why are you trying so hard to spin this?

Just meaningless words.

Mostly, maybe not 100% though. He's an assistant captain so what he says matters at least a little bit, he's supposed to be a leader right? The fact that he doesn't see there is a problem when there clearly is a problem is a concern and it's not the first time this has happened either. Accepting some responsibility would indicate a professional attitude.

Whatever, play like a star in the playoffs and nobody will care. I'm counting on it but we'll see.

If this was true, you wouldn’t be calling him a loser and all the other stuff. For someone who says they don’t care much about the “dumb things he says” you have a lot to say about it.

If I think he has a loser mentality, am I not allowed to express that opinion?

 

[PromisedLand]

both matthews and marner had absolutely abysmal games against canes clocking in -6 being on ice for all 6 goals against canes scored

i was expecting a stronger response from them from embarrassing stat line.

but of course both laid an egg

 

[francis246]

Saying the effort was there and saying we played well are actually two completely different things. He said something dumb, it's not the first time and it won't be the last but it's not that big a deal so why are you trying so hard to spin this?

Mostly, maybe not 100% though. He's an assistant captain so what he says matters at least a little bit, he's supposed to be a leader right? The fact that he doesn't see there is a problem when there clearly is a problem is a concern and it's not the first time this has happened either. Accepting some responsibility would indicate a professional attitude.

Whatever, play like a star in the playoffs and nobody will care. I'm counting on it but we'll see.


If I think he has a loser mentality, am I not allowed to express that opinion?

You are it’s a public forum, but don’t go about yelling at other posters for using insults and then also say you don’t care about anything besides his playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

Question to be asked is that after 9 years of seeing and hearing everything i.e.

1. shambles in the brain
2. gods in town
3. we did quite well
4. bounces
5. throwing gloves on the bench "stop crying bro - this isn't f***ing junior"
6. losing to zamboni driver
7. Blowing 3-1 series lead to MTL with habs colors on CN Tower
8. 1st round exits
9. etc...

In your opinion as fans is it worth investing 12 to 14 (or something in between) AAV long term on the player?

Matthews at 13.25 AAV is overpaid
Nylander at 11.5 AAV is overpaid

With Drai signing a 14 AAV deal, Is it worth investing anywhere between 12AAV to 14AAV in Marner for long term?


And if he tests the market and there is some moronic team willing to give Marner 14+ AAV for 7 years, should Leafs try to match?

You only listed half the list. It would be insane to let him walk for nothing. We will be worse without him. We may not make the playoffs. How many jersey sales would they lose? Gotta make him the highest paid player in the league for all those assists and Selke level defense. Matty got overpaid. Willie got overpaid. It is only fair that Marner is overpaid.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You are it’s a public forum, but don’t go about yelling at other posters for using insults and then also say you don’t care about anything besides his playoffs.

I have never said I don't care about anything besides his playoffs. I have said that every game matters, but I care mostly about playoffs. There's a big difference, so don't twist my words around, please and thank you.

I prefer civil discussions to exchanging insults, what does that have to do with how much I care about the playoffs?

 

[666]

His dad, as well as some other posters in this thread, would give him 15 if Marner asked for it

Bingo! I had trivial quote, -1, overpaid and Marners dad diagonally on my post game thread bingo card. Did I win?

 

[Antropovsky]

Absurdly small sample size that ignores context that Marner plays against the top competition and other things. Try again.

Lol... Marner played against top competition but Domi didnt? Domi played on a line with Matthews the first 3 games and and on a line with Marner the final 4 games.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's what makes this kind of thing more than a meaningless quote, there's been fatal flaws over and over with this core group of players and this seems to reflect an underlying attitude that accepts that failure on the ice isn't a big deal as long as those paychecks keep rolling.

I remember posting last year about something Patrick Mahomes said early last NFL season. His team was winning, but they weren't playing very well and this is what Mahomes said.

“If I start playing better, everybody will start playing better,” Mahomes said, via Adam Teicher of ESPN.com. “I missed some opportunities throughout the game and so I’ve just got to put us in better positions and [start] making better decisions so that the guys can go out there and work for me and make plays down the field.”

I said I wish we had a leader like that. In those few bolded words, he acknowledges that he hasn't played as well as he can, he implies that the same goes for the rest of the team as well. He also assumes the leadership role by saying if he leads the way, he knows that everyone else will follow. And guess what, they started rolling, and rolled all the way to another Super Bowl. Now that's what leadership looks like.

Matthews is the captain, so the lack of leadership isn't all on Marner, I'd say that as captain it's mostly on Matthews but still, as an assistant captain it's partly on Marner and it would be a big positive for the team if he came out and said something like Mahomes said. Instead, after another embarrassing loss Marner says "I liked it. I thought we played well, I really did".

Sure, it's one quote but as many have said, it's a symbolic part of a big picture that we've been watching for years now and it's not a pretty picture. He's said similar things before, that quote seems to be an accurate reflection of his attitude and if that's his attitude, it doesn't give much reason to hope that anything will change.

 

[mikeyz]

Look how pissed off the fans are over his comments after a loss in January. Now fast forward to May and imagine how toxic will they be if he gets his $13m and they lose in round #1. I'm talking to you, Mr. "we are not here to sell jerseys".

If this happens, it's going to be a long time before I spend any $ on this team.

 

[Nineteen67]

I remember posting last year about something Patrick Mahomes said early last NFL season. His team was winning, but they weren't playing very well and this is what Mahomes said.

“If I start playing better, everybody will start playing better,” Mahomes said, via Adam Teicher of ESPN.com. “I missed some opportunities throughout the game and so I’ve just got to put us in better positions and [start] making better decisions so that the guys can go out there and work for me and make plays down the field.”

I said I wish we had a leader like that. In those few bolded words, he acknowledges that he hasn't played as well as he can, he implies that the same goes for the rest of the team as well. He also assumes the leadership role by saying if he leads the way, he knows that everyone else will follow. And guess what, they started rolling, and rolled all the way to another Super Bowl. Now that's what leadership looks like.

Matthews is the captain, so the lack of leadership isn't all on Marner, I'd say that as captain it's mostly on Matthews but still, as an assistant captain it's partly on Marner and it would be a big positive for the team if he came out and said something like Mahomes said. Instead, after another embarrassing loss Marner says "I liked it. I thought we played well, I really did".

Sure, it's one quote but as many have said, it's a symbolic part of a big picture that we've been watching for years now and it's not a pretty picture. He's said similar things before, that quote seems to be an accurate reflection of his attitude and if that's his attitude, it doesn't give much reason to hope that anything will change.

I just posted in another thread that none of the Leafs stars are Mahomes, but it would be great if one of them were Josh Allen.

 

[ACC1224]

I just posted in another thread that none of the Leafs stars are Mahomes, but it would be great if one of them were Josh Allen.

You have it backwards, Allen is better than Mahomes, so is Jackson.

 

[666]

Lol... Marner played against top competition but Domi didnt? Domi played on a line with Matthews the first 3 games and and on a line with Marner the final 4 games.

I don't think that Domi / Matthews line was the top line defensively with Matthews hurt but there are so many other things wrong with this from a context perspective like using Individual scoring chances for a playmaker, opposition, linemates etc etc etc.

But none of it matters with only 99 minutes of 5v5 data. You need more data but before you go looking for it here's a hint. It doesn't exist because the stats that you are using need more data than is available.

 

[Nineteen67]

You have it backwards, Allen is better than Mahomes, so is Jackson.

He’s exceptional, but he hasn’t beaten Mahomes. If Matthews was a star like Allen they would have won a few rounds. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s what he is.

 

[Antropovsky]

I don't think that Domi / Matthews line was the top line defensively with Matthews hurt but there are so many other things wrong with this from a context perspective like using Individual scoring chances for a playmaker, opposition, linemates etc etc etc.

But none of it matters with only 99 minutes of 5v5 data. You need more data but before you go looking for it here's a hint. It doesn't exist because the stats that you are using need more data than is available.

Doesn't matter if its 99 mins, it's an entire series. No data removed. In order to win a series our best players have to be our best players, whether it's 1000 mins or one game.

Stats show that playmaker and 3 million dollar player Domi, was much more likely to score than Marner. Which is an indication of whose playing playoffs the right way and who isn't. Domi is just as much of a "playmaker first" as Marner.

 

[ACC1224]

He’s exceptional, but he hasn’t beaten Mahomes. If Matthews was a star like Allen they would have won a few rounds. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s what he is.

Team sport.

 

[ToneDog]

He’s exceptional, but he hasn’t beaten Mahomes. If Matthews was a star like Allen they would have won a few rounds. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s what he is.

Matthews = DeRosen = Vladdy = Prescott