Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[ACC1224]

I am still team break the core 4 up but for me it isn't about wanting him back or not, it's just that the timing is completely in marner's favour, he's currently on a career high pace and is only going to do better with the thought of being paid. Why not use that? Let him play the season and playoffs out

if he finishes strong and has a great playoffs, i'd be willing to pay a little more, but I don't wanna repeat the nylander instance here. My disagreement with others comes when they say we need to get a deal done right now. It didn't work out with nylander, so I am skeptical about it working out here

Marner <> Nylander.
Marner has always been a high motor player, that's not going to suddenly change. He's playing pretty much as he always has.
Nylander looks pretty much has he always has as well.

 

[AvroArrow]

I am still team break the core 4 up but for me it isn't about wanting him back or not, it's just that the timing is completely in marner's favour, he's currently on a career high pace and is only going to do better with the thought of being paid. Why not use that? Let him play the season and playoffs out

if he finishes strong and has a great playoffs, i'd be willing to pay a little more, but I don't wanna repeat the nylander instance here. My disagreement with others comes when they say we need to get a deal done right now. It didn't work out with nylander, so I am skeptical about it working out here

I think we keep them all, but JT isn't a "Core" guy going forward. It's Matthews/Nylander/Marner, JT gets around 5-6M on his next deal. He's the best 2C that's going to be on the market.

For Marner, I still don't re-sign him until after the playoffs, I'm just far more optimistic about potential results this year given the style of play, not just the points/wins.

The money we save on JT's deal is used to fill out the rest of the team in the summer + cap increase.

But yeah getting a deal done right now would be a mistake IMO. Marner is a Leafs fan, he wants to be here, make him earn it. We know he's motivated by money but he also wants to be loved in his hometown, he's fan of the team like any of us. He's playing with a fire under his ass for that reason, to stay a Leaf + his paycheck.

 

[Gabriel426]

With the Vantano deferred deal.

I really think Leafs should sign MM, JT and Knies now with deferred money before the league comes in and puts a stop to that.

Paying MM 12.5mil/AVV with deferred money would be 9.375mil cap hit. Thats 1.5mil lower than what he is getting paid now. IF they can deferred more, thats even better, lol.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Yep. And why is he always on the ice in crucial moments? PP1, PK1, 3-3, 4-4, OT, SO he plays all the letters because the coaches and management know what they are doing.

Now the haters can't even point to it being a "dumb coach" thing because it has been three coaches in a row that have leaned heavily on Marner in all situations.. unlike another high scoring winger that people irrationally attached themselves to as being better.

 

[ToneDog]

Anyone who has been watching this season who doesn't want Marner back, cannot be taken seriously.

I was one of the most vocal posters about wanting him gone this summer, he's not just producing he's playing playoff style hockey. Not only is he getting into scrums, he's initiating them. He's hitting guys and finishing checks, against the B's he went in on the forecheck and laid the body leading to a turnover and immediate goal.

We all complained that he played soft etc. But no one can say that about him this season, I think some posters are just "pot committed" at this point and just doesn't wanna retract their statements. Doesn't make you foolish to admit you were wrong.

It is not a matter of wanting him back, it is at what number and whether you want to handcuff yourself to 16, 34, 88 and 44 or keep one option open. That is why I want to see what they do in the playoffs. There is no team this team should lose to in round #1 (Boston, Tampa, Pitt, Philly, NYR etc.) but if they do, do seriously want to run it back again? These guys have already lost to Columbus, Montreal and a sad Bruins team last year. Once they all have NMCs, you are f***ed if they lose in round #1 again. Will the sample size be enough or not?

 

[AvroArrow]

It is not a matter of wanting him back, it is at what number and whether you want to handcuff yourself to 16, 34, 88 and 44. That is why I want to see what they do in the playoffs. There is no team this team should lose to in round #1 (Boston, Tampa, Pitt, Philly, NYR etc.) but if they do, do seriously want to run it back again? These guys have already lost to Columbus, Montreal and a sad Bruins team last year. Once they all have NMCs, you are f***ed if the lose in round #1 again.

Say we lose again but Marner has a terrific post-season, do we then let him walk because the other 3 are already signed ?

Having them signed already shouldn't determine what we do with Marner. His playoff performance should be the deciding factor of whether or not we bring him back and at what price.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Say we lose again but Marner has a terrific post-season, do we then let him walk because the other 3 are already signed ?

Having them signed already shouldn't determine what we do with Marner. His playoff performance should be the deciding factor of whether or not we bring him back and at what price.

Good playoff = sign
Bad playoff = leafs are screwed in a lose-lose situation

 

[sunstersun]

I'm fine with signing Marner if he has a good series. Ideally the Leafs have a larger sample size to evaluate in the postseason rather than 7 or 11 games.

 

[ToneDog]

Say we lose again but Marner has a terrific post-season, do we then let him walk because the other 3 are already signed ?

Having them signed already shouldn't determine what we do with Marner. His playoff performance should be the deciding factor of whether or not we bring him back and at what price.

If we lose again but Marner has a terrific post-season, then I sign him. How much more do you think he will command in June as opposed to today or after Ranta signs? My position is not to sign him at his peak unless he delivers in the playoffs. I call that risk management unless my goal is to keep the regular paying customers happy, and do not fool yourself, that plays a huge part in the decision to keep this core together or not. Saying everything is on the table is lip service to appease and keep pissed off fans at bay IMO.

 

[AvroArrow]

If we lose again but Marner has a terrific post-season, then I sign him. How much more do you think he will command in June as opposed to today or after Ranta signs? My position is not to sign him at his peak unless he delivers in the playoffs. I call that risk management unless my goal is to keep the regular paying customers happy, and do not fool yourself, that plays a huge part in the decision to keep this core together or not. Saying everything is on the table is lip service to appease and keep pissed off fans at bay IMO.

As long as he doesn't make more than Matthews. With how he's played and assuming he has a respectable playoff, 13M is fair, ideally a bit less but I don't think he'll take less than 13 if he has a good post-season.

 

[ToneDog]

As long as he doesn't make more than Matthews. With how he's played and assuming he has a respectable playoff, 13M is fair, ideally a bit less but I don't think he'll take less than 13 if he has a good post-season.

With the cap rising and Nylander haven been given $11.5m, $13m makes sense but it would be hard to swallow if we see a repeat of his last 12-15 playoff games.

 

[Antropovsky]

If we lose again but Marner has a terrific post-season, then I sign him. How much more do you think he will command in June as opposed to today or after Ranta signs? My position is not to sign him at his peak unless he delivers in the playoffs. I call that risk management unless my goal is to keep the regular paying customers happy, and do not fool yourself, that plays a huge part in the decision to keep this core together or not. Saying everything is on the table is lip service to appease and keep pissed off fans at bay IMO.

Not really his peak. Some of his worst 5v5 stats of his career.

He's having a career year on the PP though and in empty net points.

2025:
Goals/60: 0.61
lowest since 2020, 2nd lowest of career. Peak was 1.25/60.
Primary assist/60: 1.12
currently 3rd lowest of his career. Peak was 1.78/60.
Secondary assists/60:0.92
2nd highest of career. Hes normally arouns 0.60

PP points Marner has 9.4 p/60, which is the best of his career.

Crazy stat is that this year, Tavares has 7 empty net points, Marner 6 and Nylander 5.

Last year no Leaf had more than 3 Empty Net points all season.

 

[DarkKnight]

As long as he doesn't make more than Matthews. With how he's played and assuming he has a respectable playoff, 13M is fair, ideally a bit less but I don't think he'll take less than 13 if he has a good post-season.

I predict 13 x 8, and that is fair if the cap rises as expected.

 

[Jojalu]

This. Let Sakic set the market because clearly, those in charge at the cash box have no clue. Willy @ $11.5m says Hi.

P.S. If Marner gets less than Ranta, I will have no complaints. If they pay him more that Ranta again after the last 6 year sample size, then you can bet your ass that I will want this core blown up if they do not get to round #3.

Production wise Ranta has been better, and I don't know what dollar value comes with being the better 200 foot player but Marner is indeed that.

I know in fans minds that they want players to be paid based on playoff success, but that doesn't work.

Should Bedard get paid less because his team sucks and they have no chance to make the playoffs?

Compared to other sports, hockey players get paid a hell of a lot less entering the league. Before they ever play a game they get 10's of millions.

Just win the damn cup so I can take a year off from thinking about how much they get paid

Not really his peak. Some of his worst 5v5 stats of his career.

He's having a career year on the PP though and in empty net points.

2025:
Goals/60: 0.61
lowest since 2020, 2nd lowest of career. Peak was 1.25/60.
Primary assist/60: 1.12
currently 3rd lowest of his career. Peak was 1.78/60.
Secondary assists/60:0.92
2nd highest of career. Hes normally arouns 0.60

PP points Marner has 9.4 p/60, which is the best of his career.

Crazy stat is that this year, Tavares has 7 empty net points, Marner 6 and Nylander 5.

Last year no Leaf had more than 3 Empty Net points all season.

That's crazy. I wish I could remember why they had so little empty net points.

Not really his peak. Some of his worst 5v5 stats of his career.

He's having a career year on the PP though and in empty net points.

2025:
Goals/60: 0.61
lowest since 2020, 2nd lowest of career. Peak was 1.25/60.
Primary assist/60: 1.12
currently 3rd lowest of his career. Peak was 1.78/60.
Secondary assists/60:0.92
2nd highest of career. Hes normally arouns 0.60

PP points Marner has 9.4 p/60, which is the best of his career.

Crazy stat is that this year, Tavares has 7 empty net points, Marner 6 and Nylander 5.

Last year no Leaf had more than 3 Empty Net points all season.

That's crazy. I wish I could remember why they had so little empty net points.

 

[666]

Not really his peak. Some of his worst 5v5 stats of his career.

He's having a career year on the PP though and in empty net points.

2025:
Goals/60: 0.61
lowest since 2020, 2nd lowest of career. Peak was 1.25/60.
Primary assist/60: 1.12
currently 3rd lowest of his career. Peak was 1.78/60.
Secondary assists/60:0.92
2nd highest of career. Hes normally arouns 0.60

PP points Marner has 9.4 p/60, which is the best of his career.

Crazy stat is that this year, Tavares has 7 empty net points, Marner 6 and Nylander 5.

Last year no Leaf had more than 3 Empty Net points all season.

Small sample size.
Completely ignores context of coaching, injuries, linemates etc etc etc.
No comparison of the actual stats to anyone else particularly teammates.

You've hit the trifecta.

Anyone who thinks that Marner is having a poor season is CLEARLY not watching the games properly.

 

[666]

With the Vantano deferred deal.

I really think Leafs should sign MM, JT and Knies now with deferred money before the league comes in and puts a stop to that.

Paying MM 12.5mil/AVV with deferred money would be 9.375mil cap hit. Thats 1.5mil lower than what he is getting paid now. IF they can deferred more, thats even better, lol.

The Hurricanes did it in September too.

 

[Antropovsky]

Small sample size.
Completely ignores context of coaching, injuries, linemates etc etc etc.
No comparison of the actual stats to anyone else particularly teammates.

You've hit the trifecta.

Anyone who thinks the Marner is having a poor season is CLEARLY not watching the games properly.

It goes both ways.
- Marner had the best 5v5 goal scorer for majority of games since 2020.
- He had a players coach/offensive coach since 2020.
- Hes had Nylander, Matthews, Tavares on the PP since 2019. No other team has that kind of goal scoring power on a PP.

Who does Kaprizov have for linemates?

Who does Panarin have for linemates?

They blow the next linemate forwards out of water in points. They dont need elite linemates.

Before Matthews came back, Marner was slowly creeping back to a 100 point pace and being at risk of not reaching it again. Additionally, not only is he not a goal scoring threat 5v5 the 14 games Matthews was out but for a playmaker he had a measly 1 primary assist. Anyone watching him knows hes not really setting up goals or many chances for his teammates out there.

 

[Hellcat]

With the Vantano deferred deal.

I really think Leafs should sign MM, JT and Knies now with deferred money before the league comes in and puts a stop to that.

Paying MM 12.5mil/AVV with deferred money would be 9.375mil cap hit. Thats 1.5mil lower than what he is getting paid now. IF they can deferred more, thats even better, lol.

Would love to see a soft cap that is more aggressive than MLB's soft tax but one that will give you credits for every dollar to send to the poor club rescue fund.

IE: the Cap is 100 mil, you donate 20 mil to Gary's Poor Club rescue fund, this means you can go over the cap by 20 mil and not incur penalties, once you go over the cap+credit space, every dollar is "luxury taxed" at 50%, that money is split with every team in the league that does not go over their cap+credit target. In theory Toronto could be sending money to Boston or Florida.

It goes both ways.
- Marner had the best 5v5 goal scorer for majority of games since 2020.
- He had a players coach/offensive coach since 2020.
- Hes had Nylander, Matthews, Tavares on the PP since 2019. No other team has that kind of goal scoring power on a PP.

Who does Kaprizov have for linemates?

Who does Panarin have for linemates?

They blow the next forwards out of water in points. Before Matthews came back, Marner was slowly creeping back to a 100 point pace and being at risk of not reaching it again. Additionally, not only is he not a goal scoring threat 5v5 the 14 games Matthews was out but for a playmaker he had a measly 1 primary assist. Anyone watching him knows hes not really setting up goals or many chances for his teammates out there.

You're still beating that tired old drum eh? Non sequitur at best..

 

[666]

Who does Kaprizov have for linemates?

Who does Panarin have for linemates?

They are great players too, like Marner.

Again. If you're somehow trying to find magical stats that show that Marner is not having a great season then you won't.
Stop focusing on points and small samples and start watching the games.

I would be very surprised to find ANYONE who doesn't think Marner is having a great season so far. Look around man. There is talk about Marner getting $13M, maybe the Hart, sure there's the negative playoff stuff but NO ONE is even hinting at Marner having a poor season so far except you. Why do you think that is? Are you the only one that sees something that the rest of us are missing? Or ...

 

[Antropovsky]

They are great players too, like Marner.

Again. If you're somehow trying to find magical stats that show that Marner is not having a great season then you won't.
Stop focusing on points and small samples and start watching the games.

I would be very surprised to find ANYONE who doesn't think Marner is having a great season so far. Look around man. There is talk about Marner getting $13M, maybe the Hart, sure there's the negative playoff stuff but NO ONE is even hinting at Marner having a poor season so far except you. Why do you think that is? Are you the only one that sees something that the rest of us are missing? Or ...

Nobody is talking about Marner and the Hart. The main board is discussing Hart trophy and only two posters brought up Marners name for Hart in the 5 pages. One being ACC1224 and one other leaf poster.

Before you laugh at the main board (which for some reason is at rimes used as a rebuttal), show how off the main board was in predicting Hart early candidates in years past.

 

[666]

Nobody is talking about Marner and the Hart. The main board is discussing Hart trophy and only two posters brought up Marners name for Hart in the 5 pages. One being ACC1224 and one other leaf poster.

Before you laugh at the main board (which for some reason is at rimes used as a rebuttal), show how off the main board was in predicting Hart early candidates in years past.

That's what you got out of my post? I post 10 things and you focus on the Hart thing and ignore the rest? There is a trend with some of you guys. You just ignore the stuff that gives you cognitive dissonance. That can't be healthy.

Ok then, what do the main boards think of Marners season so far? Do they agree with everyone except you that he is having a great season? Why don't you start a poll?

 

[ACC1224]

That's what you got out of my post? I post 10 things and you focus on the Hart thing and ignore the rest? There is a trend with some of you guys. You just ignore the stuff that gives you cognitive dissonance. That can't be healthy.

Ok then, what do the main boards think of Marners season so far? Do they agree with everyone except you that he is having a great season? Why don't you start a poll?

REPORT CARDS: Grading the Toronto Maple Leafs at NHL's midway point

As the Maple Leafs hit the midway point of the 2024-25 regular season, we grade each player on his overall performance so far.

torontosun.com

Mitch Marner — 9.5​

If we’re talking Hart Trophy candidates, Marner is that guy for the Leafs. He has consistently been Toronto’s best player. Only Colorado’s Nathan MacKinnon and Mikko Rantanen, and Edmonton’s Leon Draisaitl had more than Marner’s 56 points through Sunday. Marner leads NHL forwards with 31 takeaways. He’s a vital cog on a Leafs penalty kill that is eighth in the NHL. Contract pressure? Nothing approaching a hint of that. Marner has been excellent.

SIMMONS: The Maple Leafs of season's first half are legit Stanley Cup contenders

After years of being looked upon as hockey’s most talented, overpaid playoff disaster, the book on the Leafs is changing rapidly.

torontosun.com

The Leafs have been fortunate that Mitch Marner has been exceptional in the first half. Marner currently sits ahead of Connor McDavid and Nikita Kucherov in league scoring.



He will get Hart Trophy votes this season. He hasn’t had many before. He will get some award recognition. He hasn’t had much before.

 

[NinjaKick]

I know its a cliche at this point but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Marner is great in the regular season... playoffs? not so great...

That said, Berube has us playing "differently"... Marner is not shying away from any contact whatsoever, he's even throwing his body around which is awesome to see, and I don't think I've seen him quit on a play once... he's playing like he's surrounded in a ball of fire... this is the best Marner has ever looked imo.

now carry it over to the playoffs.. and there will be no haters.

also, if we keep this up, Berube should really be considered for the Adams... because we have something special this season... just stay healthy damnit.

 

[Gabriel426]

Would love to see a soft cap that is more aggressive than MLB's soft tax but one that will give you credits for every dollar to send to the poor club rescue fund.

IE: the Cap is 100 mil, you donate 20 mil to Gary's Poor Club rescue fund, this means you can go over the cap by 20 mil and not incur penalties, once you go over the cap+credit space, every dollar is "luxury taxed" at 50%, that money is split with every team in the league that does not go over their cap+credit target. In theory Toronto could be sending money to Boston or Florida.



You're still beating that tired old drum eh? Non sequitur at best..

Think Leafs is already sending money to Florida, lol.

Owners are the reason why NHL does not have a soft cap or luxury tax. As I don't see how players would not want that.

 

[IPS]

There is a whole lot of crow that has been eaten since the summer, lets just put it that way.

I must have missed all of the posts proclaiming Marner will struggle in the regular season on a contract year.