SoupNazi
Keeps paying for Hangman’s OF to get promoted
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Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued
- Thread starter SoupNazi
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The Shadow
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Also I think him practicing with Crosby and Mackinnon this summer made a big impact
Playing with the best in the world and guys who do whatever it takes to win.
Playing with the best in the world and guys who do whatever it takes to win.
666
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I predict that this weekend will be the beginning of a new era on attitude towards Marner. Now of course nothing has changed at all. He's the same guy he was last week and last season but this should be the start of a more positive view towards him. We're already starting to see a softening.
Over any reasonable sample size Marner is a superstar and using low sample size stats are a waste of time and the community has beaten that idea to death.
People will stop watching the puck start understanding Marners defensive brilliance.
People who think that Marner needs Matthews have been totally debunked.
People concerned with only points will understand that on average only 6 or 7 goals or so are scored per game and a scoring play takes at most 15 seconds so they'll start to see that you can't base player evaluations on 105 seconds of the game. It's the time between the goals that Marner really shines even though he leads the team in points.
People will start talking more about how the core and goaltending and team in general have been disappointing in the playoffs and stop focusing so much on Marner's (disappointing yet team leading) points. This will be a challenge for some but if you understand the game then it's clear that the core as a whole hasn't gotten it done and Marner when considering the defensive zone has still been one of the best Leafs overall.
People will start to see how much more valuable Marner is than Nylander and for those who would only sign him for $9M or less will just fade away as they start accepting $13M as a possibility.
People who constantly change their opinions probably won't stop.
The Marner thread which grows at least 3 times faster than the other threads will start to slow its growth as attitudes change unless he really starts contending for the Hart then it might blossom into a love fest.
It's already started.
I predict that this weekend will be the beginning of a new era in attitude towards Marner.
Nylander signed last January 8th. After this Wednesday things may start to get tense.
Over any reasonable sample size Marner is a superstar and using low sample size stats are a waste of time and the community has beaten that idea to death.
People will stop watching the puck start understanding Marners defensive brilliance.
People who think that Marner needs Matthews have been totally debunked.
People concerned with only points will understand that on average only 6 or 7 goals or so are scored per game and a scoring play takes at most 15 seconds so they'll start to see that you can't base player evaluations on 105 seconds of the game. It's the time between the goals that Marner really shines even though he leads the team in points.
People will start talking more about how the core and goaltending and team in general have been disappointing in the playoffs and stop focusing so much on Marner's (disappointing yet team leading) points. This will be a challenge for some but if you understand the game then it's clear that the core as a whole hasn't gotten it done and Marner when considering the defensive zone has still been one of the best Leafs overall.
People will start to see how much more valuable Marner is than Nylander and for those who would only sign him for $9M or less will just fade away as they start accepting $13M as a possibility.
People who constantly change their opinions probably won't stop.
The Marner thread which grows at least 3 times faster than the other threads will start to slow its growth as attitudes change unless he really starts contending for the Hart then it might blossom into a love fest.
It's already started.
I predict that this weekend will be the beginning of a new era in attitude towards Marner.
Nylander signed last January 8th. After this Wednesday things may start to get tense.
Last edited:
Bomber0104
Registered User
I can only imagine what this ongoing saga of a thread would be like if he wasn't the clear-cut scoring leader on the team and near-tops in the league 
thusk
Registered User
I can only imagine what this ongoing saga of a thread would be like if he wasn't the clear-cut scoring leader on the team and near-tops in the league
just 13 pts over the next one in the team at half of season
ACC1224
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I can only imagine what this ongoing saga of a thread would be like if he wasn't the clear-cut scoring leader on the team and near-tops in the league
Imagine where he would be if he got the right kind of points.
Aashir Mallik
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque
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but how many of those primary assists are passes he meant to make not to matthews or knies or tavares or nylander or pacioretty or mcmann and were for an empty net tap in that even I could put in?
once he gets 25 of those then I'll say he is the best
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Aashir Mallik
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I don't think we should make the same mistake as we did with nylander though..
again i ask 11.5x8 is 13.14x7 who was paying that to nylander
ditto for marner 13x8 is 14.85x7 who is paying that to marner...
As for the people who's opinons change, what's wrong with that? When he plays good, he gets praise, when he plays bad he gets hate. Now the problem is he gets alot more hate than others, but as a concept these type of fans are the best/realest IMO.
I would let the season play out and see what happens, especially since there are no signs indicating that marner doesn't want to be a leaf. We messed up with Nylander, no reason to mess up with Marner too. No point rushing anything if it doesn't get us anything better. Let the playoffs play out and see what happens then
Aashir Mallik
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I have to say the more impressive part is how he is alone on that list
if we take paces then:
Mack + Rant are 1 and 6
Point + Kuch are 2 and 8
Drai + McD are 3 and 4
Eichel + Stone are 9 and 10
so of the top 10 scorers, only kaprizov and marner are alone
666
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Marner is so much better than Nylander. He's worth it. You don't lose Marner because you make a mistake with Nylander.
If your opinion of Marner changes from season to season then you're not paying attention. Time and time again stats, the eye test, managers, coaches, team Canada selections, etc, etc have all PROVEN unconditionally that Marner is a superstar. EVERY player has bad days, weeks, months or series but a superstar is a superstar until they age out.
I'd sign him yesterday. They should have done it in the summer. The closer it gets to UFA the easier it is to test it.
If Marner goes to UFA it will only cost a team $1.6-$2.0M more to equal 8 years. If he wins the Hart the sky's the limit.
| x8 | x7 | diff |
11.50 | 92 | 13.14 | 1.64 |
11.75 | 94 | 13.43 | 1.68 |
12.00 | 96 | 13.71 | 1.71 |
12.25 | 98 | 14.00 | 1.75 |
12.50 | 100 | 14.29 | 1.79 |
12.75 | 102 | 14.57 | 1.82 |
13.00 | 104 | 14.86 | 1.86 |
13.25 | 106 | 15.14 | 1.89 |
13.50 | 108 | 15.43 | 1.93 |
13.75 | 110 | 15.71 | 1.96 |
14.00 | 112 | 16.00 | 2.00 |
Note: the cap is expected to rise significantly.
666
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Mack 65 points (Rantanen 36 in common)
Drai 59 points (McDavid 32 in common)
Rantanen 57 points (Mack 36 in common)
Marner 56 points (Matthews 18 points in common)
Gary Nylund
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- Oct 10, 2013
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Paying Nylander in the middle of the season was a mistake, doing the same with Marner would also be a mistake. 8 years of history has shown us that he simply is not the same player in the playoffs so until there is evidence of that changing, he's just not worth it to me. That's me though, and I value playoff success very highly, but it seems like those in charge aren't too concerned about the playoffs so a Marner extension wouldn't be the least bit surprising.
That seems entirely logical and that's always been my attitude with not just Marner, but every player ever. One poster has said that that makes me "a flip flopper" whatever that means. Apparently some people feel it's logical to decide which players you like, and after that it doesn't matter how they play, you either praise them or mock them depending on what you decided your preference is. It's quite weird but there it is.
Exactly. And in the unlikely event that Marner tears it up, not just for the first 4 games of the playoffs but through multiple rounds, what's he gonna do, ask for 16 million? Point being that the downside of that scenario is minimal, but the downside of bending over for his ridiculous demands at this time is that it's a massive risk. Make him one of the highest paid players in the league and if he scores 3 more points in his next 7 playoff games, then what?
Again, that's for people like me who value playoff success, if that's not a concern then sure, sign him, who cares, whatever.
thusk
Registered User
If you're expecting marner would retire after 7 year unstead of still playing after and get a new contract for the 8th season... Maybe that can make sense but comparing salary from 7 and 8 M contract total vs average is totally crap...
So exemple 100 for 8 X...
Exemple if you anticipating his salary in last would be 8M in his last year... (100-8)÷ 7 = 13,14 $... So difference would be 614K, its how it work...
666
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Of course, but he'll be 35 in 7 years or could get injured. Also the Leafs have an advantage to front loading etc so it's impossible to know what would satisfy Marner.
thusk
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666
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Or he could get injured and be done. I was just pointing out that from Marners perspective he might be looking at it as one last contract and from a UFA team's perspective it's definitely doable.
DarkKnight
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I love the empty net stuff too, because all it means is your coach trusts you defensively to protect a win. The slag is actually a compliment lol.
ACC1224
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There’s some that have doubled down so often with empty calorie comments that there’s no turning back now.
DarkKnight
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I couldn't watch my team with the inane corner the haters(not legit posters) have painted themselves into. He's on the ice more than any forward in the league, I couldn't take it. And all that matters is May, so tune out and go read a book, instead of arguing nothingness in January. Leave us fools to enjoy some winter hockey with a guy tearing it up, see you first round!
Aashir Mallik
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Let's settle down on the hart talks, we seem to be getting carried away and are buying into a career year, similar to nylander's last season. That's the comparison I was drawing, not through their abilities, but rather that both had career years when signing. Marner hasn't ever hit 80 assists and all of this is coming off of a 5 point game, I think we need to settle down and see if he can maintain this before assuming he keeps this incredible pace up.
I want to see another playoff run before signing him so I'd wait, but to sign him now, I'd want him to come in at 12ish. His ceiling is Draisaitl who is a clear better player making 14, I can't see him making more than him as Drai has a better track record + playoffs. Just my opinon, but lets let's say in some hypothetical he finishes with 115 and does well in the playoffs, than I would be willing to pay the x million in extra as insurance. I don't think he can do anything to get more than 14 x 8 and even then I don't think anyone offers 16 to him.
That 1.6-2 million dollars could be the difference between a 5 million dollar defencemen or a 7 million dollar one, or rather that could be the difference
between having to let someone go to sign a roster player or losing them for marner. I think it's being undervalued a bit, just like it was during nylander's signing
Aashir Mallik
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I think even just excusing playoff success for a second, a signing now doesn't make too much sense. He is on a career high pace for points and assists, and is coming off of a 5 point game. It would be foolish to just say this is Marner now just like it was foolish to say last year was just Nylander. Marner is a 100 point player, but this season is on pace for 112 and climbing. Let the season play out and see what happens IMO
The issue is that some posters don’t keep that same energy for other players and it’s evident by the amount of Marner threads there are. There’s been 3 threads for Marner in the last 4 months. No other player has had that many threads. Nylander hasn’t scored in 5 or 6, no one is in the Nylander thread making a stink about it. But if Marner was to be on a 5 game goal drought. You’d have some posters coming in here and saying, what a waste of 11 million of whatever. The criticism isn’t evenly distributed on this board for the top players no matter how much people try and lie and say that it is.
Whether people feel that’s Marner’s fault cause of the last negotiation is a different convo. But we need to stop pretending like he doesn’t get 5x more shit than Nylander, Matthews, Tavares and even Rielly.
Aashir Mallik
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Oh I defintely agree I even say so in the post that he gets more hate than others which is undeserved especially now that WN makes 11.5. It's gotten better the last year I'd say but that is because Matthews started off so badly and we didn't know of the injury during his play.
A part of me thinks if marner is smart he takes 12 on the dot. That gives him the look of taking less and only being .500k over nylander, putting some of his pressure and complaints onto Nylander.
