Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[thewave]

This. Instead of him feeling he needs to blow the offensive zone early to play defence is insane. He’s much more effective as an offensive player.

It’s nice that he is defensively responsible, but I think he overdoes it.

No the fans and staff demand more behind the back spin a roonies. The spin a roonie gold and my favorite the spin a roonie giveaway.

It's really silly. Do what the other good teams do. It only makes sense.

 

[Zybalto]

A big part of Marner’s overall value is that he is so strong defensively. Especially in comparison to several guys on that list.

Reducing hockey to more points always = better is a not a good way to run.

This problem will always persist really.

Stretching out the big 3 Leafs playoffs stats over the last 3 years to a full season that would be:

Matthews: 36 goals, 86 points and a +18
Marner: 20 goals, 82 points and a +36
Nylander: 37 goals, 75 points and a -4

(also take into account the Leafs are even for ES goals for/against over this stretch)

Does Marner get enough credit as one of the best defensive playoff wingers? Probably not.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Until all of Matthews, Marner and nylander didn't raise their game come playoff time, it will always be the case whatever what change they doing.

If they let Marner gone but Matthews/Nylander don't play better hockey, the result will be the same

I think you mean "unless Matthews, Marner, and Tavares do raise their game at playoff time, the results will be the same."

Which is my point.

Marner leaving may or may not improve the playoff results, depending on what we do with the money saved, but can the results be much worse?

 

[thusk]

I think you mean "unless Matthews, Marner, and Tavares do raise their game at playoff time, the results will be the same."

Which is my point.

Marner leaving may or may not improve the playoff results, depending on what we do with the money saved, but can the results be much worse?

You can include Nylander easyly in that list too. For me a guy in 47 playoff game(outside of mtl series) who had the same number of goal at 5v5 against any top 6 line than David Kampf. Its not good enough for a player who should be one of your 3 best offensive player.

So the answer is to keep running them back until they "better hockey"? Barry Zito could have done the same with Huberdeau but he decided to bring in M Tkachuk. The rest is history.

If Bobrosvky, Barkov and cie didn't raised their game, result would be the same. You need everyone raising their game together like i said.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This problem will always persist really.

Stretching out the big 3 Leafs playoffs stats over the last 3 years to a full season that would be:

Matthews: 36 goals, 86 points and a +18
Marner: 20 goals, 82 points and a +36
Nylander: 37 goals, 75 points and a -4

(also take into account the Leafs are even for ES goals for/against over this stretch)

Does Marner get enough credit as one of the best defensive playoff wingers? Probably not.

Marner's numbers flatter him, mainly because of the 1st 4 games against TB in 2023. Overall, 11 games and 13 points sounds good, but let's a closer look at how Marner did in 2023.

First 4 games, 9 points. Then 1 point in the last 2 games as TB was eliminated, then one assist in 3 games as Toronto went down 3-0 in round 2 against Florida. Then with the season all but over, Marner came alive with 2 points in game 5 and that was it, 0 points as the Leafs season ended in game 5.

First 4 games - 9 points.
The next 7 games - 4 points, 2 of them meaningless points when the season was all but over.

100 point player for the regular season and first 4 games of the playoffs, then a 40 point player the rest of the way. That's where we're at now with an 8 year sample size. Overall the numbers look pretty good, but considering he disappears 4 games in to the playoffs, there is good reason to think that what many people have been saying for years is true - Marner needs time and space to be effective, that time and space goes away once everyone adjusts to playoff hockey and then Marner becomes ineffective.

Does that concern you at all? If it doesn't, then it should. How can it not? Unless you're one of those people who doesn't care about playoffs, then sure, no worries.

I think you mean "unless Matthews, Marner, and Tavares do raise their game at playoff time, the results will be the same."

Which is my point.

Marner leaving may or may not improve the playoff results, depending on what we do with the money saved, but can the results be much worse?

Nylander's the only star we have who's production doesn't take a huge hit in the playoffs. It's funny how people still try to lump him in with the others.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You can include Nylander easyly in that list too. For me a guy in 47 playoff game(outside of mtl series) who had the same number of goal at 5v5 against any top 6 line than David Kampf. Its not good enough for a player who should be one of your 3 best offensive player.

LOL. You're not counting PP because that wouldn't suit your agenda, you couldn't be any more transparent.

If we're going to cherry pick player comparisons, it's hard to ignore that Marner had 3 points in 7 games against Boston, same as Lyubushkin. Is that good enough?

 

[GoonieFace]

It’s been asked many times, show me some big clutch playoff moments by Marner….crickets….except someone posted the goal against Boston last year when the game was all but over.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It’s been asked many times, show me some big clutch playoff moments by Marner….crickets….except someone posted the goal against Boston last year when the game was all but over.

For years people were raving over how he blocked a shot against Boston, I guess that's faded so far back into the past that they don't even bring that up any more.

 

[DarkKnight]

The difference in ozone starts in the top ten is crazy. Imagine how much more productive Marner would be without doing so much heavy lifting on defence.

Woo, woo, woo friend, defence doesn't matter.

It’s been asked many times, show me some big clutch playoff moments by Marner….crickets….except someone posted the goal against Boston last year when the game was all but over.

Who cares.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Woo, woo, woo friend, defence doesn't matter.


Who cares.

who cares about regular season
marner is toast

 

[DarkKnight]

who cares about regular season
marner is toast

Zzzzz.

 

[thewave]

Mitch does any of that fancy behind the back pass crap against WPG and they are going to make us pay. No more BS Mitchy

 

[Gary Nylund]

For years people were raving over how he blocked a shot against Boston, I guess that's faded so far back into the past that they don't even bring that up any more.

My mistake, there's at least one person that's not embarrassed that when asked to show a clutch Marner moment, he has to go back almost 5 years before he finds him ... blocking a shot. Less than 5 seconds left to play, a crowd of people in front of the net so the chances of a shot finding it's way in the net we're near zero anyway, but of course we should pretend that these Marner heroics won the game for us or something.

I swear, you can't make this shit up.

 

[thusk]

LOL. You're not counting PP because that wouldn't suit your agenda, you couldn't be any more transparent.

If we're going to cherry pick player comparisons, it's hard to ignore that Marner had 3 points in 7 games against Boston, same as Lyubushkin. Is that good enough?

Did you really read anything?!?!?!

Like i said everyone need to raise their game... Matthews, Marner AND Nylander...

I just not pretending a guy who get outplay against any top 6 line and should be one of your key player had been good enough and better than the rest of the group

 

[Zybalto]

Marner's numbers flatter him, mainly because of the 1st 4 games against TB in 2023. Overall, 11 games and 13 points sounds good, but let's a closer look at how Marner did in 2023.

First 4 games, 9 points. Then 1 point in the last 2 games as TB was eliminated, then one assist in 3 games as Toronto went down 3-0 in round 2 against Florida. Then with the season all but over, Marner came alive with 2 points in game 5 and that was it, 0 points as the Leafs season ended in game 5.

First 4 games - 9 points.
The next 7 games - 4 points, 2 of them meaningless points when the season was all but over.

100 point player for the regular season and first 4 games of the playoffs, then a 40 point player the rest of the way. That's where we're at now with an 8 year sample size. Overall the numbers look pretty good, but considering he disappears 4 games in to the playoffs, there is good reason to think that what many people have been saying for years is true - Marner needs time and space to be effective, that time and space goes away once everyone adjusts to playoff hockey and then Marner becomes ineffective.

Does that concern you at all? If it doesn't, then it should. How can it not? Unless you're one of those people who doesn't care about playoffs, then sure, no worries.

Nylander's the only star we have who's production doesn't take a huge hit in the playoffs. It's funny how people still try to lump him in with the others.

A big rant about production? Kinda missed the whole point of my post.

Does Marner get enough credit as one of the best defensive playoff wingers? Probably not.

I should have wrote "Obviously not".

 

[Gabriel426]

A big rant about production? Kinda missed the whole point of my post.


I should have wrote "Obviously not".

MM is being paid top 10 salaries in the league to produce offence.
Yes, he is a good defensive player BUT so are a lot of wingers in the league that is being paid 2mil.

Like if C like Coyle can neutralize AM, what’s the point of paying AM top salaries if he can’t be outperform someone who would be 3C on the Leafs.

 

[arso40]

You can include Nylander easyly in that list too. For me a guy in 47 playoff game(outside of mtl series) who had the same number of goal at 5v5 against any top 6 line than David Kampf. Its not good enough for a player who should be one of your 3 best offensive player.



If Bobrosvky, Barkov and cie didn't raised their game, result would be the same. You need everyone raising their game together like i said.

Don’t like Willy much huh @thusk

 

[Gary Nylund]

Did you really read anything?!?!?!

Like i said everyone need to raise their game... Matthews, Marner AND Nylander...

I just not pretending a guy who get outplay against any top 6 line and should be one of your key player had been good enough and better than the rest of the group

If M&M&JT produced offence at the same rate as they do in the regular season the way Nylander does, that would be more than enough. You keep obfuscating with 5on5, top6, whatever but you're not fooling me one bit.

A big rant about production? Kinda missed the whole point of my post.

I should have wrote "Obviously not".

With that cap hit, he's expected to lead the way offensively and if he doesn't do that, no amount of defence is going to make up for it. Or to put it another way, your point is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[DarkKnight]

Ignore is a dud filter.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You can include Nylander easyly in that list too. For me a guy in 47 playoff game(outside of mtl series) who had the same number of goal at 5v5 against any top 6 line than David Kampf. Its not good enough for a player who should be one of your 3 best offensive player.

Your obsession with denegrating Nylander made you completely miss the point of my post. Not surprising, really.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

haven't liked his game the last two

back to the point play and way too many decisions that are confusing

that 2nd goal was a prime example, just put it down low

hopefully he can come back from the break and be great again

 

[hamzarocks]

Marner sucks, Matthews sucks, nylander sucks, rielly sucks, Tavares suck, you suck and I suck

july 1 2025 leafs will have either signed 16 and 91 after a deep playoff run (ECF mininum) and expectations and confidence the core will deliver more for next 5 years or will be moving on from the two and setting a new core up to replace the biggest underperfming core in NHL history.

None of the past matters, only Game 1 onwards vs whoever come playoffs in April

 

[Anthrax442]

Useless

 

[frizzer1]

Last year leafs were up 1 against Boston.
Marner forechecked, came up with the puck, and fed edmunston in the slot.
If he had converted, they likely win and Marner is a hero.
He didn’t and Marner is a bum.

 

[Anthrax442]

I rather had Kyle Connor