Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[ACC1224]

Marner has a really good, accurate shot.

He has to be a threat to score himself to open up lanes for passing or defenders can cheat to the pass and limit him even more.

He does that by his constant movement.
Last game for example, the McMann goal, would it had been better off had Marner shot?

His goals seem down a bit this year, more than likely he'll still end up around 30 like every other year.

I don't know where to find the shot stats, it would be interesting to see how many less per game he's taken this year vs other seasons.

 

[DarkKnight]

I wonder if Blues fans whined when one of the best set up men, hall of famer Adam Oates, averaged 24 goals a year playing with Brett Hull. Or were they happy to watch his incredible play making skills? I mean only 24 goals, I feel he should have done more, assists are for sissies apparently. Either that or some Leafs don't understand hockey, it's an open debate.

Sure he can shoot more, but maybe the best set up man in the game. The horror!

 

[arso40]

He does that by his constant movement.
Last game for example, the McMann goal, would it had been better off had Marner shot?

His goals seem down a bit this year, more than likely he'll still end up around 30 like every other year.

I don't know where to find the shot stats, it would be interesting to see how many less per game he's taken this year vs other seasons.

Hope this helps

 

[Zybalto]

Top 10 TOI/GP by forwards ranking this year:

1. MacKinnon in 75% Ozone starts
2. Kaprizov in 69.9% Ozone starts
3. Rantanen in 75.44% Ozone starts
4. Lehkonen in 65.41% Ozone starts
5. McDavid in 72.79% Ozone starts
6. Trochek in 54.86% Ozone starts
7. Marner in 47.18% Ozone starts
8. Kucherov in 70.37% Ozone starts
9. Draisaitl in 64.03% Ozone starts
10. Konecny in 63.50% Ozone starts

Ranking for PPG among those players:

1. Kucherov: 1.690
2. MacKinnon: 1.583
3. McDavid: 1.581
4. Draisaitl: 1.529
5. Kaprizov: 1.485
6. Rantanen: 1.444
7. Marner: 1.324
8. Konecny: 1.176
9. Lehkone: 0.667
10. Trochek: 0.606

Considering all the injuries on the team this season and the fact Berube is playing the hell out of him both in terms of TOI and hard usage, Marner is doing an incredible job. Top 10 for points in the league, leading the league for takeaways, spearheading a much improved PK and doing all this while his linemate Matthews is fighting an injury all year. Hes also only taken 3 penalties all season.

 

[arso40]

Top 10 TOI/GP by forwards ranking this year:

1. MacKinnon in 75% Ozone starts
2. Kaprizov in 69.9% Ozone starts
3. Rantanen in 75.44% Ozone starts
4. Lehkonen in 65.41% Ozone starts
5. McDavid in 72.79% Ozone starts
6. Trochek in 54.86% Ozone starts
7. Marner in 47.18% Ozone starts
8. Kucherov in 70.37% Ozone starts
9. Draisaitl in 64.03% Ozone starts
10. Konecny in 63.50% Ozone starts

Ranking for PPG among those players:

1. Kucherov: 1.690
2. MacKinnon: 1.583
3. McDavid: 1.581
4. Draisaitl: 1.529
5. Kaprizov: 1.485
6. Rantanen: 1.444
7. Marner: 1.324
8. Konecny: 1.176
9. Lehkone: 0.667
10. Trochek: 0.606

Considering all the injuries on the team this season and the fact Berube is playing the hell out of him both in terms of TOI and hard usage, Marner is doing an incredible job. Top 10 for points in the league, leading the lead for takeaways, spearheading a much improved PK and doing all this while his linemate Matthews is fighting an injury all year. Hes also only taken 3 penalties all season.

Very smart player

 

[DarkKnight]

Top 10 TOI/GP by forwards ranking this year:

1. MacKinnon in 75% Ozone starts
2. Kaprizov in 69.9% Ozone starts
3. Rantanen in 75.44% Ozone starts
4. Lehkonen in 65.41% Ozone starts
5. McDavid in 72.79% Ozone starts
6. Trochek in 54.86% Ozone starts
7. Marner in 47.18% Ozone starts
8. Kucherov in 70.37% Ozone starts
9. Draisaitl in 64.03% Ozone starts
10. Konecny in 63.50% Ozone starts

Ranking for PPG among those players:

1. Kucherov: 1.690
2. MacKinnon: 1.583
3. McDavid: 1.581
4. Draisaitl: 1.529
5. Kaprizov: 1.485
6. Rantanen: 1.444
7. Marner: 1.324
8. Konecny: 1.176
9. Lehkone: 0.667
10. Trochek: 0.606

Considering all the injuries on the team this season and the fact Berube is playing the hell out of him both in terms of TOI and hard usage, Marner is doing an incredible job. Top 10 for points in the league, leading the lead for takeaways, spearheading a much improved PK and doing all this while his linemate Matthews is fighting an injury all year. Hes also only taken 3 penalties all season.

Yes, one can't over state the benefits of having Holmberg as your center for a few games, those inflate the numbers. Give the injuries and Matthew abysmal shooting percentage, his numbers are amazing (ditto Nylander for that matter).

As far as shooting this year, his career average is 2.58, he's 2.44 this year.

 

[ACC1224]

Hope this helps

So pretty much right around his average this year.

I know there are times I yell ay the tv or down from my seats for him to shoot more but it's hard to deny his success.
(I know, I know.....1 round in 8 years)

Top 10 TOI/GP by forwards ranking this year:

1. MacKinnon in 75% Ozone starts
2. Kaprizov in 69.9% Ozone starts
3. Rantanen in 75.44% Ozone starts
4. Lehkonen in 65.41% Ozone starts
5. McDavid in 72.79% Ozone starts
6. Trochek in 54.86% Ozone starts
7. Marner in 47.18% Ozone starts
8. Kucherov in 70.37% Ozone starts
9. Draisaitl in 64.03% Ozone starts
10. Konecny in 63.50% Ozone starts

Ranking for PPG among those players:

1. Kucherov: 1.690
2. MacKinnon: 1.583
3. McDavid: 1.581
4. Draisaitl: 1.529
5. Kaprizov: 1.485
6. Rantanen: 1.444
7. Marner: 1.324
8. Konecny: 1.176
9. Lehkone: 0.667
10. Trochek: 0.606

Considering all the injuries on the team this season and the fact Berube is playing the hell out of him both in terms of TOI and hard usage, Marner is doing an incredible job. Top 10 for points in the league, leading the lead for takeaways, spearheading a much improved PK and doing all this while his linemate Matthews is fighting an injury all year. Hes also only taken 3 penalties all season.

Good post but what about throwing tantrums per 60? (see iPad Gate)

 

[DarkKnight]

Imagine complaining about a Leaf who's top ten in scoring, and is their best defensive forward. Maybe someone will give your head a shake for Christmas.

 

[Sypher04]

Imagine complaining about a Leaf who's top ten in scoring, and is their best defensive forward. Maybe someone will give your head a shake for Christmas.

I fully agree with the overall point you’re making but I still think Matthews is the better defensive forward. This is splitting hairs though tbh as both are elite two way forwards and Marner has clearly had the better year of the two.

 

[DarkKnight]

I fully agree with the overall point you’re making but I still think Matthews is the better defensive forward. This is splitting hairs though tbh as both are elite two way forwards and Marner has clearly had the better year of the two.

I give the edge to Marner, because he's a premier Pker. People tend to just toss that in as an add on, when it's just as important as the PP. I know you get that, just my metric. Matthews is a great 200 ft player, I split my hair and give it to Marner because of PK.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So pretty much right around his average this year.

I know there are times I yell ay the tv or down from my seats for him to shoot more but it's hard to deny his success.
(I know, I know.....1 round in 8 years)

1 round in 8 years has nothing to do with it, that's a team stat that no one player is responsible for.

Marner is a 100 point regular season player, and a 70 point player in the playoffs. Even more concerning is that he's 100 point player for the first 4 playoff games while everyone's adjusting to playoff style hockey, then he turns into a 40 point player. That suggests that he's not the kind of player who will ever succeed in the playoffs and if that's true, it's hard for the team to go deep when a player taking up so much cap space isn't pulling his weight. That's the issue, plain and simple.

Stop turning into a 40 point player when the going gets tough, and I'm quite sure nobody will care how often or how many iPad's he chucks or how hard he chucks them. Keep doing it though, and it's going to be really hard for anyone to argue that Marner's game is suited for the playoffs.

As I've said many time, he's worth 13m to a team with no playoff aspirations but as long as the Leafs still have hopes of going deep, they should think long and hard before making a long term commitment once again to this regular season wonder kid.

I give the edge to Marner, because he's a premier Pker. People tend to just toss that in as an add on, when it's just as important as the PP. I know you get that, just my metric. Matthews is a great 200 ft player, I split my hair and give it to Marner because of PK.

When both are on their game, Matthews is a Hart Trophy winner and Marner is nowhere close. But sure, give it to Marner because of PK. LMAO.

 

[Racer88]

Hahaha that’s incredible man. Here’s to many more years brother and hopefully a leafs Stanley Cup sandwhiched somewhere in between!

No doubt…….Leafs success is all any of us want even if we differ on how to achieve it sometimes

 

[Zybalto]

Yes, one can't over state the benefits of having Holmberg as your center for a few games, those inflate the numbers. Give the injuries and Matthew abysmal shooting percentage, his numbers are amazing (ditto Nylander for that matter).

As far as shooting this year, his career average is 2.58, he's 2.44 this year.

Yea, if Matthews was healthy, Marner's assist totals would be through the roof.

Highest high danger chance rate in the NHL 5v5 this season: Matthews

Matthews/ Marner line high danger chance rate 5v5: 19.31 in 266 minutes (which is ludicrously high)
Matthews without Marner on a line high danger chance rate 5v5: 6.22 in 68 minutes

Last season individually, Matthews posted 38 goals 5v5 on 15.38% shooting
This year he has 5 goals 5v5 on 7.58% shooting with what the analytics say are more prime chances than last season.

Healthy Matthews out there and Marner might be fighting for the Art Ross right now IMO. Really need him back healthy as his D has been affected as much as his goal scoring.

 

[thewave]

Yea, if Matthews was healthy, Marner's assist totals would be through the roof.

Highest high danger chance rate in the NHL 5v5 this season: Matthews

Matthews/ Marner line high danger chance rate 5v5: 19.31 in 266 minutes (which is ludicrously high)
Matthews without Marner on a line high danger chance rate 5v5: 6.22 in 68 minutes

Last season individually, Matthews posted 38 goals 5v5 on 15.38% shooting
This year he has 5 goals 5v5 on 7.58% shooting with what the analytics say are more prime chances than last season.

Healthy Matthews out there and Marner might be fighting for the Art Ross right now IMO. Really need him back healthy as his D has been affected as much as his goal scoring.

Plan the parade? Sounds like Marner is just smoking red hot cinders on the HFBoards hot stove right now. I can't wait to see it all come together in the most impressive in the bag Leafs playoffs since 93.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Seems like he's taken more shots compared to other years, not sure if that's true or not.

Not sure that him shooting more would make the team more successful either.

Career average 2.58 shots/game. This year 2.44. But last year was only 2.29, so some variation.

 

[Sundinisagod]

If management let Marner walk, how much will it influence Matthews decision to stay or go at the end of his current deal?? Obviously it wouldn't help, can't see management/ownership taking that risk.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I wonder if Blues fans whined when one of the best set up men, hall of famer Adam Oates, averaged 24 goals a year playing with Brett Hull. Or were they happy to watch his incredible play making skills? I mean only 24 goals, I feel he should have done more, assists are for sissies apparently. Either that or some Leafs don't understand hockey, it's an open debate.

Sure he can shoot more, but maybe the best set up man in the game. The horror!

Probably, because just like Thornton and other players who are so biased towards playmaking that they try to force plays rather than shoot, they are easier to contain in the playoffs where the opposition gets a good look at them.

This is also misleading because Oates missed time and when he was doing better in the playoffs he was scoring more goals too.

If management let Marner walk, how much will it influence Matthews decision to stay or go at the end of his current deal?? Obviously it wouldn't help, can't see management/ownership taking that risk.

Who cares. At this point I’m just hoping we get anything close to 13 million in value from Matthew$ at all on the current deal. Tired of the excuses for this guy and catering to him .

 

[BraveCanadian]

Top 10 TOI/GP by forwards ranking this year:

1. MacKinnon in 75% Ozone starts
2. Kaprizov in 69.9% Ozone starts
3. Rantanen in 75.44% Ozone starts
4. Lehkonen in 65.41% Ozone starts
5. McDavid in 72.79% Ozone starts
6. Trochek in 54.86% Ozone starts
7. Marner in 47.18% Ozone starts
8. Kucherov in 70.37% Ozone starts
9. Draisaitl in 64.03% Ozone starts
10. Konecny in 63.50% Ozone starts

Ranking for PPG among those players:

1. Kucherov: 1.690
2. MacKinnon: 1.583
3. McDavid: 1.581
4. Draisaitl: 1.529
5. Kaprizov: 1.485
6. Rantanen: 1.444
7. Marner: 1.324
8. Konecny: 1.176
9. Lehkone: 0.667
10. Trochek: 0.606

Considering all the injuries on the team this season and the fact Berube is playing the hell out of him both in terms of TOI and hard usage, Marner is doing an incredible job. Top 10 for points in the league, leading the league for takeaways, spearheading a much improved PK and doing all this while his linemate Matthews is fighting an injury all year. Hes also only taken 3 penalties all season.

The difference in ozone starts in the top ten is crazy. Imagine how much more productive Marner would be without doing so much heavy lifting on defence.

 

[thewave]

The difference in ozone starts in the top ten is crazy. Imagine how much more productive Marner would be without doing so much heavy lifting on defence.

So why don't they do that. Play him like other top players. I am all for making my best players better. I don't care if it's Marner or JT AM WN etc. I believe in playing players to there strengths.

Using these guys defensively is not the best use.

 

[BraveCanadian]

So why don't they do that. Play him like other top players. I am all for making my best players better. I don't care if it's Marner or JT AM WN etc. I believe in playing players to there strengths.

Using these guys defensively is not the best use.

A big part of Marner’s overall value is that he is so strong defensively. Especially in comparison to several guys on that list.

Reducing hockey to more points always = better is a not a good way to run.

 

[GoonieFace]

So why don't they do that. Play him like other top players. I am all for making my best players better. I don't care if it's Marner or JT AM WN etc. I believe in playing players to there strengths.

Using these guys defensively is not the best use.

This. Instead of him feeling he needs to blow the offensive zone early to play defence is insane. He’s much more effective as an offensive player.

It’s nice that he is defensively responsible, but I think he overdoes it.

 

[LeafEgo]

The difference in ozone starts in the top ten is crazy. Imagine how much more productive Marner would be without doing so much heavy lifting on defence.

There aren't that many end zone shift starts in a game - about ten or so I think for a first line player. So it probably works out to Marner having an extra one or two dzone starts rather than ozone starts per game compared to the others.

Supports Berube trusting Marner though, those extra shifts are likely deploying him for critical d situations.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If management let Marner walk, how much will it influence Matthews decision to stay or go at the end of his current deal?? Obviously it wouldn't help, can't see management/ownership taking that risk.

Four more years of good regular season and bad playoffs just to (maybe) guarantee another four years of good regular season and bad playoffs?

 

[thusk]

Four more years of good regular season and bad playoffs just to (maybe) guarantee another four years of good regular season and bad playoffs?

Until all of Matthews, Marner and nylander didn't raise their game come playoff time, it will always be the case whatever what change they doing.

If they let Marner gone but Matthews/Nylander don't play better hockey, the result will be the same

 

[ToneDog]

Until all of Matthews, Marner and nylander didn't raise their game come playoff time, it will always be the case whatever what change they doing.

If they let Marner gone but Matthews/Nylander don't play better hockey, the result will be the same

So the answer is to keep running them back until they "better hockey"? Barry Zito could have done the same with Huberdeau but he decided to bring in M Tkachuk. The rest is history.