Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[DarkKnight]

Finally, a hater with a large sample size. Unfortunately you're completely ignoring Nylander's dismal defence. While using +/- is frowned upon when comparing two right wingers on the same team it's at least a reasonable context and in this case it should give you a hint as to how horrible Nylander is defensively. To even consider comparing Nylander to Marner during the regular season is absurd. Do you guys even watch the defensive zone?

People don't acknowledge D is as important as O, it isn't as sexy I guess. The PK is as important as the PP, yet it's a throw in around here. Coaches get it, but fans tend to just look at offence. Even look when we score a goal, the guy doing all the work to get there isn't mentioned in game threads, just the finish. Marner's defensive contribution is largely a whatever, you mention his Selke 3rd place, the goddam Selke, and it's treated like you're a fanboy exaggerating. Hilarious. Again, hockey people understand to win it's a 200 foot game, fans just look at goals. Marner is the main forward on a great PK this year, that's just as impactful as being the main PP player, which he might be too. Deal haters, I'm just enjoying both of them.

 

[danny90]

Does this look like a $13m player?

View attachment 948686

How about this?

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wow I cant believe one player would do better than the other in a small sample size

 

[666]

Ofcourse pk time affects plus minus. You can never be assigned a minus while on pk but you can collect pluses. How many free pluses over 2.5 years did Mitch collect? Anyway man I value them both the same. If I’m defending I want Mitch, if I need a goal I want William

What I'm saying is that the even strength stats are the ones used for comparing players for this sort of thing and Nylander is on for significantly more goals against and less goals for in general than Marner is.

As for goals, it's Marners job to use his elite vision and be a playmaker. He's still the cause of more goals for than Nylander is it's just not his role to score them.

Do yourself a favour. The next time that Marner and Nylander don't play on the same line, in the defensive zone, stop watching the puck and only focus on Marner and Nylander and the play in general. You will be blown away by the difference. Offensively watch how many times Nylander gives the puck away with how few touches he gets. Marner will give it away a lot too but not compared to the enormous number of times he touches the puck. Marner is much much better if you watch closely.

 

[666]

People don't acknowledge D is as important as O, it isn't as sexy I guess. The PK is as important as the PP, yet it's a throw in around here. Coaches get it, but fans tend to just look at offence. Even look when we score a goal, the guy doing all the work to get there isn't mentioned in game threads, just the finish. Marner's defensive contribution is largely a whatever, you mention his Selke 3rd place, the goddam Selke, and it's treated like you're a fanboy exaggerating. Hilarious. Again, hockey people understand to win it's a 200 foot game, fans just look at goals. Marner is the main forward on a great PK this year, that's just as impactful as being the main PP player, which he might be too. Deal haters, I'm just enjoying both of them.

Agreed 100% The haters only seem to understand points although Marner is pretty good there too. Unfortunately this league just doesn't measure defence in an easily consumed form so they can't point to an obvious stat. I have no idea what they are doing when they are watching the games but it's pretty clear it's not defence.

 

[DarkKnight]

Agreed 100% The haters only seem to understand points although Marner is pretty good there too. Unfortunately this league just doesn't measure defence in an easily consumed form so they can't point to an obvious stat. I have no idea what they are doing when they are watching the games but it's pretty clear it's not defence.

In three years he will be the all time points leader on an original six team, so ya he's pretty good on offence too lol.

Appreciate what you said about watching the play away from the puck, I enjoy this as well, mostly because I see what coaches are looking at, not just the flash. Marner's IQ is off the hook.

 

[ToneDog]

wow I cant believe one player would do better than the other in a small sample size

Perhaps you can do research for a larger sample size and report back. Maybe you can also include playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

Im not a hater, jeeze. I just don’t believe in overpaying. Mitch playing all the pk apparently but has only 7 shp compared to William’s 4. William with 17 gwg’s compared to Marner’s 8. We can all point to different angles. I’d say the difference In defence is countered by the difference in goals

My, my, how ironic you being called a hater when you have backed Marner on almost everything. Good times.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Ofcourse pk time affects plus minus. You can never be assigned a minus while on pk but you can collect pluses. How many free pluses over 2.5 years did Mitch collect? Anyway man I value them both the same. If I’m defending I want Mitch, if I need a goal I want William

Short handed goals are “free” pluses??

lol

 

[GoonieFace]

Then you don't understand Marners role or defense. Nylander is a defensive liability all of time. Marner is a defensive superstar all of the time. When Nylander plays with JT they let in more goals than they score. When Marner plays with JT they are as effective as the Matthews line.

You need to watch Nylander closer in the defensive zone. First of all he's alway late getting out of the offensive zone because he's always so tired or lazy getting back. Then, most of the time, he hangs out at the blue line looking for the flashy stretch pass breakaway. When he does rarely contribute he gives the puck away more often than not. You guys really need to pay more attention in the defensive zone.

Playing defence as a winger is no big deal. I’d rather pay a guy that can score goals like Willy. You can find defensively responsible wingers for cheap.

 

[666]

Playing defence as a winger is no big deal. I’d rather pay a guy that can score goals like Willy. You can find defensively responsible wingers for cheap.

You have clearly never played or coached or participated in the game at high level if you think wingers aren't expected to play defensively. It is very difficult to find an elite defensively responsible winger like Marner who also gets close to 100 points per season. In fact, that's usually called a superstar.

 

[GoonieFace]

You have clearly never played or coached or participated in the game at high level if you think wingers aren't expected to play defensively. It is very difficult to find an elite defensively responsible winger like Marner who also gets close to 100 points per season. In fact, that's usually called a superstar.

Well I did play at a high level, but whatever. What I meant to say is the difficulty of playing d as a winger is easy, not like playing d as a centremen. Mitch is great at what he does, but i prefer a winger that can score goals and create his own goals, who may lack the defensive aspect.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well I did play at a high level, but whatever. What I meant to say is the difficulty of playing d as a winger is easy, not like playing d as a centremen. Mitch is great at what he does, but i prefer a winger that can score goals and create his own goals, who may lack the defensive aspect.

Yeah playing defence has value, but the defensive value a Marner type player brings is nowhere near what astrong defensive Dman or centre brings. Marner's problem is that so far, his offense dies in the playoffs. 100 point player during the season, 70 point player in the playoffs. The scary part is that the first 4 games of the playoffs he's still a 100 point player but after than, he's a 40 point player. On a team that always dies at the end of the 1st round, that stands out like a sore thumb and no, playing defence does not make up it and therefore, at least IMHO he isn't worth his cap hit in the playoffs.

Great regular season player though, he even helps kill penalties. I'll bet he's one of the worlds best shinny hockey payers too and even MacKinnon I think it was said that he sure looks good skating around in the summertime.

 

[DarkKnight]

Tied for seventh in the league in points.