Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Hallonbroder]

He's built perfectly fine for the playoffs, and he does perform.

Eh? Alright, I’ll give up

 

[ACC1224]

With all of the media attention, I could see Bennett getting suspended at a far greater pace if he were to play for Toronto.

Bennett would be fantastic but the time to add him was when he was in Calgary, not overpaying for his declining years as a UFA.
(Moot point anyway, he'll stay in tax free Florida anyway.)

 

[Dekes For Days]

Eh? Alright, I’ll give up

Our top playoff producer in the Matthews era. Elite defensively. Plays in all situations and the toughest matchups, and outplays and outscores his opposition year after year.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Bennett

He's a 25 goal scorer and a difference make in the playoffs while Mitch is a 16 goal scorer who disappears deeper into a series. For me, now way am I paying Marner $13m.

Is not going to do here what he's done in Florida. He was part of a team culture that facilitated his game and he had the right linemates.

He would be a huge dud playing here on the same team as Knies after what he did to him that run. Almost as bad of a team move then when they brought Mike Peca over while his Dad Darcy was still here.

Not a fit .

 

[francis246]

Why are you and some others saying that people demand defense? Couldn’t you use Marners potential 13-14 mil on top 9-forwards instead, so that you can stop relying on the likes of Holmberg. Minten, Robertson and others year after year? (because management spends it all on a couple of forwards)


Fine - how am I wrong on him?

The few people who have posted options literally mentioned signing 3 defenseman. Thats why I mentioned it.

Also it’s probably because there are not 3 quality top 9 guys available lmao. And what are the chances 3 of the very few are gonna choose to sign in Toronto. Probably unlikely. There is Ehlers and Bennett. Both will cost you 7 mill each conservatively. So I don’t think you get 3 forwards.


I’ll ask, who would you target?

 

[BraveCanadian]

Bennett @ $7m + $6m in cap space or Marner @ $13m?

Marner all day even if 13 is being too rich.. these takes..

 

[ToneDog]

Marner all day even if 13 is being too rich.. these takes..

Yup because they've been so successful in the playoffs. Imagine what he would be asking for if he helped win a few rounds. Instead he is remembered for pucks over the glass penalties, crying in the penalty box, throwing a hissy fit on the bench, complaining to refs when he is touched, and critical giveaways leading to goals.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yup because they've been so successful in the playoffs.

This is always the answer when somebody has no actual justification for the move that they're advocating for. Not winning the cup yet isn't a reason to make us worse.

Imagine what he would be asking for if he helped win a few rounds.

The same, because contracts aren't based on team round wins.

 

[AvroArrow]

He's a 25 goal scorer and a difference make in the playoffs while Mitch is a 16 goal scorer who disappears deeper into a series. For me, now way am I paying Marner $13m.

Bennett would be suspended the entire series in game 1 if he was a Leaf, guy routinely charges players, headshots guys, boards guys without getting called for it. One of the fakest tough guys in the league, effective but certainly gets away with a lot of garbage.

Bennett is the kind of guy you add to take your team over the top, he isn't that core guy you build around. Marner literally doubles his offensive production, obviously Marner has been horrible in the playoffs, but Bennett just isn't that guy lol.

If we're talking Tkachuk, a power forward who chips in offensively, different story. Bennett is a good middle 6 player, Marner is a top line player.

 

[ACC1224]

Puck over the glass penalty 5 years ago is when you know the stupidity of the thread has peaked.

Next up will be how he's hated in the room because Matthews picked Nylander and Rielly before him at the All Star game.

 

[Confucius]

Marner all day even if 13 is being too rich.. these takes..

These takes.
How much would you pay JT?

I have stated JT is worth up to7 per year, many here have stated 5 some as low as 3 lmao

Not once has Marner got 20 more points than JT in a single season and a couple of times Marner only got 6 more.

So how much more than JT are you willing to give Mitch for those 20 points max a year.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Bennett has never cracked 50 points, he's a decent player but not even close. If he was actually officiated properly he would have been suspended multiple times in the playoffs.

the second bennett were to become a leaf he would be "kadri'd" and wouldn't see the playoffs

Dude crosschecked Bunting in the neck, then body slammed knies and didn't even get a fine

then he punched marchand in the face and didn't get any games for that.

Meanwhile we are over here having morgan rielly be crucified and labeled a dirtbag last year because of one dirty play he has made in his entire career

 

[Leafsfan74]

Lol @Marner asking for $14m.

I send him on his way and go hard for UFAs Bennet and Ekblad.

Those guys make us better and more balanced than Marner, regardless of what Marner does or doesn’t do in the playoffs.

For a guy who says how much he loves playing in his hometown and wants to stay, his contract negotiation history points in the opposite direction.

I would definitely go hard for Bennett. I lobbied for him here a couple of years ago.

Leafs defense is fine and they have a deep bench so barring major injuries that require a deadline deal or an player in for player out, I don't see the defense changing much.

 

[BraveCanadian]

These takes.
How much would you pay JT?

I have stated JT is worth up to7 per year, many here have stated 5 some as low as 3 lmao

Not once has Marner got 20 more points than JT in a single season and a couple of times Marner only got 6 more.

So how much more than JT are you willing to give Mitch for those 20 points max a year.

What does JT have to do with anything being discussed here? Ignoring the games Marner missed to close the gap in points is some solid cherry picking though.

Anyone with eyeballs can see that Marner drives the offensive play much moreso than JT, and outside of faceoffs, Marner is relied upon more defensively too.

 

[Confucius]

What does JT have to do with anything being discussed here? Ignoring the games Marner missed to close the gap in points is some solid cherry picking though.

Anyone with eyeballs can see that Marner drives the offensive play much moreso than JT, and outside of faceoffs, Marner is relied upon more defensively too.

Ignoring the fact I’ve said every year JT has been here, staying healthy is part of the plan. Nice in avoiding the question how much more per year is Marner worth.

 

[francis246]

Bennett would be suspended the entire series in game 1 if he was a Leaf, guy routinely charges players, headshots guys, boards guys without getting called for it. One of the fakest tough guys in the league, effective but certainly gets away with a lot of garbage.

Bennett is the kind of guy you add to take your team over the top, he isn't that core guy you build around. Marner literally doubles his offensive production, obviously Marner has been horrible in the playoffs, but Bennett just isn't that guy lol.

If we're talking Tkachuk, a power forward who chips in offensively, different story. Bennett is a good middle 6 player, Marner is a top line player.

Agreed, it sucks we didn’t try and jump on swapping Marner for Tkachuk when that was available. I know Tkachuk would only sign long term in Florida or St. Louis but that may have been the right switch the team needed even if we only had him for 2 seasons.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Ignoring the fact I’ve said every year JT has been here, staying healthy is part of the plan. Nice in avoiding the question how much more per year is Marner worth.

He’s worth a lot more than JT and he’s obviously going north of 11.5 because he’s a better hockey player than Nylander too.

 

[LeafSteel]

Ekblad will command at least 9 million. Bennett will get 7, he’s better than Chandler Stephenson IMO. So I don’t think we can afford both and honestly, why do we want Ekblad? He’s 30 years old and suffers a major injury every year.

I don’t believe Ekblad is still a $9 million defender, and I believe that is what the market will show as well.

No interest in him over $6-7 million. Our defence is already well improved.

Point being made here is even with Marner, our roster has holes.

$14m to Marner vs adding elsewhere to improve other areas is something some people here can’t comprehend or just refuse to accept. It would be amusing if it weren’t how mindless it appears to be.

Team first, player much less.

 

[francis246]

I don’t believe Ekblad is still a $9 million defender, and I believe that is what the market will show as well.

No interest in him over $6-7 million. Our defence is already well improved.

Point being made here is even with Marner, our roster has holes.

$14m to Marner vs adding elsewhere to improve other areas is something some people here can’t comprehend or just refuse to accept. It would be amusing if it weren’t how mindless it appears to be.

Team first, player much less.

Ekblad will easily get 8 mill + on the open market. He’s a RHD, former first overall, he’s bettter than nurse. So thinking he’s getting 6 mill is kind of foolish. Montour got 7.

Building through UFA has never lead to a Stanley Cup in the modern cap era. You build through buying low on ELC players at their lowest value and they The only exception was Vegas, they also abused LTIR. OR you get a UFA in their prime who is available in UFA, under 30 years old.

If the leafs want to let Marner walk and then use prospect/draft capital and Marner’s cap space to pick up a few young players who could benefit from a change of scenery I’m all for that. The leafs should be looking for the next young Sam Reinhart and Sam Bennett and using assets to acquire those guys.

Thinking some middle aged UFA’s (who you will have to overpay btw) are going to come here and lead you to a Stanley cup is crazy thinking. It’s NEVER happpened in the cap era.


I don’t think it’s so much of a Marner vs the Team thing. It’s about can you replace the value Marner brings with players from UFA. To me the answer is no. Why? Because there are no guarantees in UFA and there is a huge risk element people are just ignoring. You let Marner walk and this team could be really bad moving forward and you’re saddled with a ton of bad contracts. Is there a chance things also work out? Absolutely.

 

[Maple Leaf]

He's built perfectly fine for the playoffs, and he does perform.

?

 

[Confucius]

Ekblad will easily get 8 mill + on the open market. He’s a RHD, former first overall, he’s bettter than nurse. So thinking he’s getting 6 mill is kind of foolish. Montour got 7.

Building through UFA has never lead to a Stanley Cup in the modern cap era. You build through buying low on ELC players at their lowest value and they The only exception was Vegas, they also abused LTIR.

If the leafs want to let Marner walk and then use prospect/draft capital and Marner’s cap space to pick up a few young players who could benefit from a change of scenery I’m all for that. The leafs should be looking for the next young Sam Reinhart and Sam Bennett and using assets to acquire those guys.

Thinking some middle aged UFA’s (who you will have to overpay btw) are going to come here and lead you to a Stanley cup is crazy thinking. It’s NEVER happpened in the cap era.

If paying ufa prices for your own players it is no different than building through the ufa market. I can think of Reilly giving us a discount but I can’t think of anyone else we have homegrown that gave us a discount.

 

[francis246]

If paying ufa prices for your own players it is no different than building through the ufa market. I can think of Reilly giving us a discount but I can’t think of anyone else we have homegrown that gave us a discount.

I’m not subscribing to the BS that Marner is getting $14 million. So I don’t really see it that way. The leafs have established their internal cap. Marner will not be a leaf making more than Matthews and that’s just a fact. I think he gets more than Nylander, less than Matthews and if the rumors of him wanting to be here are true, he’ll sign for that number in between because he doesn’t want to leave. I think that’s exactly what will happen.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Point being made here is even with Marner, our roster has holes.

Every single roster has "holes". Cup winners have "holes". Welcome to the cap era. That's not a reason to create bigger holes.

 

[notbias]

If paying ufa prices for your own players it is no different than building through the ufa market. I can think of Reilly giving us a discount but I can’t think of anyone else we have homegrown that gave us a discount.

For the 10000000th time (not directed at you), Tavares gave us a discount, just no one liked the discount.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If paying ufa prices for your own players it is no different than building through the ufa market.

Star players are underpaid in the NHL relative to their impact, so even paying them normal team-switching UFA prices (which we haven't even done, outside of Nylander) leaves you better off than doing the same with mid-tier UFAs.