Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[francis246]

Yup

An unsigned offer-sheet = toilet paper in value.

There was no reason to give Marner a contract worth 4 X 1st as compensation without a SIGNED offersheet that the Leafs could have matched to keep the player if they wanted.

A greenhorn GM got played badly and now 2 wrongs don't make a right that Leafs need to overpay Marner based on his original overpaid contract.

Kucherov finished with 44 goals 100 assists 144 points and makes $9.5 mil AAV even if you adjust for a tax free state Marner at $10.9 mil for a player that never recorded 100 points is already a poor contract. NO need to double down and pay him even more then the best RW in the game today in Kucherov. IMO

** That doesn't even include the fact that Kuch 2 X lead the playoffs in scoring while leading his team to consecutive Stanley Cups.

Kucherov’s contract isn’t relevant anymore. How many years ago was it signed? I completely understand and even agree to a certain extent with you. But the reality is, you can’t compare a contract from 3 years ago to now. Sorry, Marner isn’t going backwards on a deal in his prime. He’s going to ask for a certain cap percentage and that’s going to be way higher than 9.5 simply because the cap has gone up. Players will leap. Now does that mean we should go give Marner everything under the sun? No, but what Kucherov makes is irrelevant at this point.

 

[Stephen]

There was quite a bit of speculation about that.

Ferris: Marner received two offer sheets - TSN.ca

According to Mitch Marner's agent, Darren Ferris, the Maple Leafs winger was presented with two different offer sheets this summer before reaching a six-year, $65.36 million contract with Toronto. Marner confirmed on Monday that he did receive offer sheets, but never seriously considered signing...

www.tsn.ca

I think one of the conditions was unwillingness to give up 4 first rounders.
So max offersheet amount under that speculation would be: $10.6mm.
Offering him $10.9 would therefore eliminate teams that didn't feel he was worth that.

Two firsts, second, third is dramatically different than 4 firsts.

The whole situation still underscores how much of a pushover Dubas was.

Here you have a player who wants to only play for your team, the offer sheets may be real, may be any dollar figure you can imagine, any term you can imagine. But he still manages a healthy overpay without getting a concession from the player to want to be here and take a lower cap hit anyway.

 

[thewave]

The whole situation still underscores how much of a pushover Dubas was.

Here you have a player who wants to only play for your team, the offer sheets may be real, may be any dollar figure you can imagine, any term you can imagine. But he still manages a healthy overpay without getting a concession from the player to want to be here and take a lower cap hit anyway.

I don't want to sound extreme but the equivalent of what Dubas did to the Leafs on a National scale would be, treasonous. If not that gross incompetence.

Nothing made sense then and it certainly doesn't now, never will. Baffling

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I don't want to sound extreme but the equivalent of what Dubas did to the Leafs on a National scale would be, treasonous. If not that gross incompetence.

Nothing made sense then and it certainly doesn't now, never will. Baffling

So far he is doing the same to the Pens....I thought he might have learned a thing or two from his mistakes...but nope...he traded the hottest pending UFA (Guentzel) for ....Bunting? Ya...glad he is gone...

 

[francis246]

So far he is doing the same to the Pens....I thought he might have learned a thing or two from his mistakes...but nope...he traded the hottest pending UFA (Guentzel) for ....Bunting? Ya...glad he is gone...

I’m not a Dubas fan but blaming him for the state of the penguins is crazy. That organization was destroyed before he got there. Ownership will not authorize a rebuild. The contracts signed by Burke/Hextall were atrocious.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I’m not a Dubas fan but blaming him for the state of the penguins is crazy. That organization was destroyed before he got there. Ownership will not authorize a rebuild. The contracts signed by Burke/Hextall were atrocious.

You don't think butchering the bottom 6 that had been pretty good before he got there and signing Jarry to that stupid contract were mistakes? Add in trading for Bunting and signing Graves...trading for Karlsson....he made a mess of the mess they already had.

 

[francis246]

You don't think butchering the bottom 6 that had been pretty good before he got there and signing Jarry to that stupid contract were mistakes? Add in trading for Bunting and signing Graves...trading for Karlsson....he made a mess of the mess they already had.

You’re shitting me right? I watch the pens probably 2nd or 3rd most since I love Crosby. The pens have been an aging core for at least the last 4 years. The problem with the pens isn’t the additions it’s the contracts they cannot get rid of. People shit on the guentzel move but he’s the only guy with Value and without an NMC he could move. Ownership/Crosby does not want Malkin or Letang moved. So I don’t understand how committing another 9mill to Guentzel and having no money to try and spend else where would have helped.

Anyone who’s followed the team knows the team was gutted of first rounders, long before Dubas got there. Ownership has no interest in rebuilding.

The biggest flaw I’ll give Dubas over there in Pittsburgh is committing Jarry. That seems to be a horrible decision.

 

[therealkoho]

Maybe we should trade him huh ? Loool and retool he’s still our best player all jokes aside

You may be kidding, but I've been ready to punt him ever since he said.....

"My goal is to be the highest paid. Player in the league!"

A real team guy

 

[therealkoho]

Yup

An unsigned offer-sheet = toilet paper in value.

There was no reason to give Marner a contract worth 4 X 1st as compensation without a SIGNED offersheet that the Leafs could have matched to keep the player if they wanted.

A greenhorn GM got played badly and now 2 wrongs don't make a right that Leafs need to overpay Marner based on his original overpaid contract.

Kucherov finished with 44 goals 100 assists 144 points and makes $9.5 mil AAV even if you adjust for a tax free state Marner at $10.9 mil for a player that never recorded 100 points is already a poor contract. NO need to double down and pay him even more then the best RW in the game today in Kucherov. IMO

** That doesn't even include the fact that Kuch 2 X lead the playoffs in scoring while leading his team to consecutive Stanley Cups.

Do you really think that Ferris said, well Kyle there's good news and bad news, the bad news is Mitch received not one but two offer sheets! The good news is that Mitch doesn't want to sign either one, you know why Kyle, because he doesn't want you to have 4 1sts or 2 firsts and the rest of it.

You know what though Kyle he'll sign here for 5 x 11m

See how that sounds

 

[arso40]

You may be kidding, but I've been ready to punt him ever since he said.....

"My goal is to be the highest paid. Player in the league!"

A real team guy

Yeah I was definitely kidding we need the guy on his own line it’s the cheat code we’ve been looking for when we signed them all

 

[Confucius]

You may be kidding, but I've been ready to punt him ever since he said.....

"My goal is to be the highest paid. Player in the league!"

A real team guy

Do you have a source for that. All I can find is stuff about his goal being a long term leaf

 

[Sundinisagod]

Do you have a source for that. All I can find is stuff about his goal being a long term leaf

I believe it was fabricated, I've never seen it quoted or sourced, easy to see he was poised to become the leagues highest paid player.

 

[Sundinisagod]

7 years: $97mm
8 years: $92mm

Nylander is in several commercials right now. I don't recall seeing any/many Keller/Rantanen/Kucherov/Panarin/??? commercials on Canadian TV. Maybe they have local roles in their own markets, like we see locally for car dealerships, et cetera.

In 8 years how much would a team pay for Nylander? Of course we won't know what kind of player he is that many years into the future.

Still surprised at the amount he received, but if the expected cap increases happen, then it might be appropriate.

I expect 12+ for marner. I would be surprised if he commits beyond 4 years.

If he signs 4 years, wouldn't he be 32 at the start of his next deal? I can't see him wanting to be in that position. A 4 year deal wouldn't have worked out great for Tavares either, would have been preferable for the team though.

 

[ULF_55]

If he signs 4 years, wouldn't he be 32 at the start of his next deal? I can't see him wanting to be in that position. A 4 year deal wouldn't have worked out great for Tavares either, would have been preferable for the team though.

Trouble is, Matthews will sign his next deal, and that could move him a few million per season in front of everyone else on the team.

That's why I think 4 years would be the number, that way he goes for another raise after he knows how much Matthews is making on his next deal.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Trouble is, Matthews will sign his next deal, and that could move him a few million per season in front of everyone else on the team.

That's why I think 4 years would be the number, that way he goes for another raise after he knows how much Matthews is making on his next deal.

What if he's declining though? Certainly a strong possibility in his early 30's. Can't see him get another raise comimg off yet another overpayment contract.

 

[thewave]

Main boards have Marner in poll.

29% 9m
27% 10m
24% 11m

Doesn't seem people are willing to pay up for Mitch.

 

[Confucius]

Main boards have Marner in poll.

29% 9m
27% 10m
24% 11m

Doesn't seem people are willing to pay up for Mitch.

Well if I was on the main boards I would have said 11. lol! The 10 and 9 are jokes. If Mitch wants to stay it’s 11 if he wants more see ya bud.

 

[thewave]

Well if I was on the main boards I would have said 11. lol! The 10 and 9 are jokes. If Mitch wants to stay it’s 11 if he wants more see ya bud.

What if it were 10.9m .. I am.good up to 11.5m but tbh no NMC modified yes.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

You’re shitting me right? I watch the pens probably 2nd or 3rd most since I love Crosby. The pens have been an aging core for at least the last 4 years. The problem with the pens isn’t the additions it’s the contracts they cannot get rid of. People shit on the guentzel move but he’s the only guy with Value and without an NMC he could move. Ownership/Crosby does not want Malkin or Letang moved. So I don’t understand how committing another 9mill to Guentzel and having no money to try and spend else where would have helped.

Anyone who’s followed the team knows the team was gutted of first rounders, long before Dubas got there. Ownership has no interest in rebuilding.

The biggest flaw I’ll give Dubas over there in Pittsburgh is committing Jarry. That seems to be a horrible decision.

I get that the ownership group are idiots...but at the same time he didn't need to trade for Karlsson coming off a career year. He signed a bunch of guys in the bottom 6 that fans say is disaster compared to the previous horrible regime. He did the right thing by trading Guentzel...it's what he got for him that is horrible. The guy is married to his vision of how hockey is supposed to be played even though countless 1st rd exits prove otherwise. I'm sorry...I seriously thought he learned something when he said he was going to seriously look at trading a core guy and then Shanny happened...he looks like he is trying to do the same things that he did in TO.

Tre rebuilt the D core in 2 off season's. Dubas had 5yrs to do it and he never could because we kept hoping Mac Holliwell or Joey Duzcak would be hidden gems that were overlooked. Smaller puck movers are not the answer. You can have 1 or 2 maybe...but what he wanted was just ridiculous IMO.

 

[ULF_55]

What if he's declining though? Certainly a strong possibility in his early 30's. Can't see him get another raise comimg off yet another overpayment contract.

If brittle Matthews can get a raise ...

 

[Stephen]

I get that the ownership group are idiots...but at the same time he didn't need to trade for Karlsson coming off a career year. He signed a bunch of guys in the bottom 6 that fans say is disaster compared to the previous horrible regime. He did the right thing by trading Guentzel...it's what he got for him that is horrible. The guy is married to his vision of how hockey is supposed to be played even though countless 1st rd exits prove otherwise. I'm sorry...I seriously thought he learned something when he said he was going to seriously look at trading a core guy and then Shanny happened...he looks like he is trying to do the same things that he did in TO.

Tre rebuilt the D core in 2 off season's. Dubas had 5yrs to do it and he never could because we kept hoping Mac Holliwell or Joey Duzcak would be hidden gems that were overlooked. Smaller puck movers are not the answer. You can have 1 or 2 maybe...but what he wanted was just ridiculous IMO.

On any serious blueline, I think you have room for one elite small puckmover, but he's got to be special. Then you protect him with 3 to 4 tall, long reach length defenders who can log minutes and play a versatile, strong defensive game. And then you can have your pick of a knuckle dragger specialist or another puck mover of undefined size. But you need a bedrock of bigger defensemen who can protect.

Marner would actually make for an interesting Quinn Hughes type defenseman.

 

[Martin Skoula]

On any serious blueline, I think you have room for one elite small puckmover, but he's got to be special. Then you protect him with 3 to 4 tall, long reach length defenders who can log minutes and play a versatile, strong defensive game. And then you can have your pick of a knuckle dragger specialist or another puck mover of undefined size. But you need a bedrock of bigger defensemen who can protect.

Marner would actually make for an interesting Quinn Hughes type defenseman.

Florida’s D was mostly 6’-6’2 with only Ekblad and Mikkola above that, the Avs only had Manson and Johnson as big guys, 4 of their D were below 200 pounds and they had a pair of 5’10 guys playing big minutes. Rielly at 6’1 225 would be considered one of the bigger guys on most cup winning blue lines outside of Vegas, Washington, and St Louis.

I’m not saying you need 6 Torrey Krugs but most teams have the majority of their D as 6-6’2 guys at 200 pounds +/- 15lbs, and there’s a lot of bigger defenses in the basement.

 

[ZEBROA]

It will be 12.5 or more or i will be shocked.

 

[Racer88]

They absolutely should not sign him until after the playoffs. If they fizzle out next year they will have to dismantle this core group and Marner/Tavares are the only 2 options.

 

[thewave]

They absolutely should not sign him until after the playoffs. If they fizzle out next year they will have to dismantle this core group and Marner/Tavares are the only 2 options.

If they sign him to a huge overpay before witnessing his playoff I am moving to the US.

Under no circumstances should they sign mid season.

/s