Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[DarkKnight]

7th in ice time for forwards.

 

[thewave]

And moving down the 5v5 points per 60 scoring ladder at the same time. (1.94 p/60) Down to 131st in the league for forwards who have played over 100 mins. 1.94 is a long ways from the p/60 he gets with Matthews traditionally.

Sounds like the highest paid player in the NHL to be. If Rogers signs anything like 13.8m they should metaphorically go blow their brains out.

7th in ice time for forwards.

Probably explains why in the most intense elimination games he shits the bed.

4th in takeaways.

Giveaways and pucks launched over the boards in the playoffs/60


Getting a little ridiculous Dark lol

 

[therealkoho]

I think that's all anyone has said. And he's been that pace the last six years combined, which is an incredible achievement really. It's a weird debate, self evident.

Consider that now know how worthless assists are, and I for one am glad that the league may move to eliminate them. Assists don't matter and are only a couple of tic marks on the game sheets. Once they're eliminated guys like Marner will watch their stock plummet faster than Professor Moriarty going over Reichenbach Falls!

So sad that there are Leafs fans who think this way in the abstract.

 

[Smif]

Sounds like the highest paid player in the NHL to be. If Rogers signs anything like 13.8m they should metaphorically go blow their brains out.


Probably explains why in the most intense elimination games he shits the bed.


Giveaways and pucks launched over the boards in the playoffs/60


Getting a little ridiculous Dark lol

I think the ridiculous thing is constantly bringing up a situation that happened 4 years ago, especially when calling someone ridiculous for talking about current events.

 

[Confucius]

And moving down the 5v5 points per 60 scoring ladder at the same time. (1.94 p/60) Down to 131st in the league for forwards who have played over 100 mins. 1.94 is a long ways from the p/60 he gets with Matthews traditionally.

I’m mainly just interested in the bottom line. Don’t care how we get there.
Win 16 playoff games, get a Cup
Get more points than any other team,get a presidents trophy
Get more points than any player, get an Art Ross
Score more than anybody else, get a Rocket

don’t care how we get those as long as we do.

Currently 1st in Atlantic, great
Mitch tied for 10th in scoring, good but maybe he can improve.

 

[Antropovsky]

Surprise surprise, you do this after one of Nylander's best games. When was the last time you did this after one of his worst, or one of Marner's best? Such a clown.

Its not just 1 game:

Here are the 5v5 per/60 for all games this year. Individual scoring chances for, individual high danger scoring chances for per/60

Matthews:
16.7 iscf
6.8 ihdcf

Tavares:
9.3
4.8

Nylander:
8.99
4.28

Knies
8.7
5.4

Marner
6.6
1.9

Holmberg:
5.3
2.2

Kampf:
3.4
2.4

 

[Aashir Mallik]

I ain't no marner fan but who gives af where his point splits are

he could have 55 PP and 50 EV points and I'd be excited, at least then that means our PP is elite.

If he gets them on the pp, then maybe the pp doesn't shit the bed come playoff time

 

[Dekes For Days]

Shooters have better individual shot metrics than playmakers. In other news, water is wet.

 

[ACC1224]

I think the ridiculous thing is constantly bringing up a situation that happened 4 years ago, especially when calling someone ridiculous for talking about current events.

You could fill a book with the ridiculous takes that are thrown out.
Give the kids credit though, they will say whatever they think no matter how dumb it sounds. I guess that's the anonymity of the Internet.

 

[therealkoho]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1857985754397397341

I like him, but lost a lot of respect for him this week after he said somebody will pay Marner between $13m and $14m/Draisaitl money.

He expressed an opinion, one based on many years of experience both with his union involvement and observing the spending habits of GMs spending the fans money like it's free

Shills gonna shill.

Cmon wave that's not what it was in the least. We all want to see Marner fold and accept 5mx8, but it ain't happening. People talk about players not earning their contracts and most years they probably don't, while a few years they give an excellent return.

With the cap going up a lot he will get more then Mathews if they just give him the same percentage of the cap he got when he signed last contract. Anything less is a discount. Cap will be over 100m in the 26-27 season likely 105 million

Bingo! Hit the nail on the head, pinned the tail on the donkey and whatever other homilie applys. It's weird that some people here applaud Matthews in his high remuneration short term contract demands and then rationalize why Marner is being evil doing the same thing and is undeserving of what he's paid and why he should take less or get out

How long have we Leafs fans waited to have truly quality players in the lineup, we have them now but they cost and that is the simple truth. And to all of those "drop Marner and sign a Norris level Dman" where do you find one?

 

[BraveCanadian]

He needs to stay off Auston's line, he's a different player when he's asked to drive his own line. As great as their chemistry is, I think they're both better off being "the guy"

I agree, and I think Marner has chemistry with anyone who can shoot just because his vision is so good.

Tavares and McMann compliment each other pretty well as North-South guys who will go to the net and boards, and it is better for Marner to have two options.

 

[therealkoho]

Some team in 2019 was willing to make him the highest paid player in the league, absent at that time not even a single playoff round win? On top of that, they would have to forfeit draft picks?

I don't know if the story is true or not, I presume it is fake or manufactured by those vested in his interests. If it was true, I imagine that the GM who was considering this is no longer employed in the industry.

There's the dirt, I posted this a couple of days ago and as I've been saying all along "Mitch Marner is a Leaf for life by his choice alone, whether anybody likes it or not!"

Guys who are the best at what they do have to be paid. I'm probably the only guy here that believes Matthews will never come close to earning that 13.4 he thinks he's worth. 12 maybe but no more than that unless he pots 69 goals avg per season, and even then, if the right offer comes along I do everything within reason to make it happen.

 

[therealkoho]

Shills gonna shill.

I didn't hear you saying anything like this when Kyper was saying Matthews was probably going to get 13-14m

 

[Confucius]

I didn't hear you saying anything like this when Kyper was saying Matthews was probably going to get 13-14m

So Nick Kypreos is reporting that Matthews wants 15M x 8y from the Leafs. Thoughts?​

 

[thewave]

I didn't hear you saying anything like this when Kyper was saying Matthews was probably going to get 13-14m

He really is a 13m player. He is best goal scorer in the game. I never argued that because what is to argue.

I can argue 11.5m for Nylander is insane at the same time as 13.8 lol for Marner.

Look I have been right generally my whole time here in the big picture.

13.8m Marner NMC and this club not sniff a Stanley Cup appearance let alone win. Mark my words

 

[therealkoho]

List makes sense, the best forwards and half are defenseman who would initiate from defense to offense, or man the point on the PP.

And only Ron Francis isn't top 10 in goals. Francis played 1731 games.

Speaking of Ronnie Franchise, did you see last night that Sebastien Aho passed him on the most winning goals by a Whaler/Hurricane.

 

[Stephen]

Going back to 2018-19, Marner has a 1.22 PPG average which is exactly 100 points, even if he hasn’t done it in an 82 game season.

However, if you go to NHL.com, this also ranks 9th among forwards during that time, and if you notice at the very top of the leaderboard, McDavid, Kucherov, Draisaitl and Mackinnon have really pushed the pace with scoring, hitting the 120s, 130s, 140s and even 150s year after year.

So yes, if you paid Marner top 10 money you’ll get top 10 production. Pretty confident in that. But also recognize the 100 point mark has experienced some deflation in recent years because the avant garde has pushed way higher. So don’t pay him avant garde money.

 

[ULF_55]

Speaking of Ronnie Franchise, did you see last night that Sebastien Aho passed him on the most winning goals by a Whaler/Hurricane.

Yeah, yeah, year ...

 

[Leafsfan74]

There's the dirt, I posted this a couple of days ago and as I've been saying all along "Mitch Marner is a Leaf for life by his choice alone, whether anybody likes it or not!"

Guys who are the best at what they do have to be paid. I'm probably the only guy here that believes Matthews will never come close to earning that 13.4 he thinks he's worth. 12 maybe but no more than that unless he pots 69 goals avg per season, and even then, if the right offer comes along I do everything within reason to make it happen.

If Matthews was healthy and on a 50 goal pace,everyone would talk about how great he is. He is one of the best two way players in the game, he doesn't play hockey downhill and his teammates see this.

Over the last few years most Gamers who I wanted and were picked up by other teams found success. Sam Bennett comes most to mind although it was rumoured that Dubas was trying to get him which I give him credit for. A year or two later he wins the Cup.

If your top talent doesn't show up when the ice disappears and the pressure is on, it's a major waste of resources and ice time. You wins Cups with players like McCann, Knies, McCain and Tanev and Benoit. They should pile up on these types.

When T.B won their Cups it was because their top players were fierce competitors who just got the job the done when the pressure was on. I don't see out Core being good under pressure at this level. There is no substitute for pressure performers.

As such, if he re-signs, the Leafs will handcuff their Cap situation and not win a Cup. It's not rocket science. It's nearly guaranteed.

Going back to 2018-19, Marner has a 1.22 PPG average which is exactly 100 points, even if he hasn’t done it in an 82 game season.

However, if you go to NHL.com, this also ranks 9th among forwards during that time, and if you notice at the very top of the leaderboard, McDavid, Kucherov, Draisaitl and Mackinnon have really pushed the pace with scoring, hitting the 120s, 130s, 140s and even 150s year after year.

So yes, if you paid Marner top 10 money you’ll get top 10 production. Pretty confident in that. But also recognize the 100 point mark has experienced some deflation in recent years because the avant garde has pushed way higher. So don’t pay him avant garde money.

Also, look at the names you listed above. McDavid, Kucherov, Draisaitl and Mackinnon.

They either guided their team to the Cup Finals game 7, or, they won a Cup, for Kucherov multiple Cups.

Unfortunately, I don't see this Core ever getting over the hump. Even when the Cap increases, so will the other players salaries.

 

[Antropovsky]

Shooters have better individual shot metrics than playmakers. In other news, water is wet.

"11 million dollar playmakers shouldnt be judged on shots or goals":

Also that 11 million dollar playmaker:

First assist per/60
Tavares - 1.02
Domi - 1.01
Max Pac - 0.87
Matthews - 0.68
Kampf - 0.68
Marner - 0.65, league rank among forwards = 152nd

 

[therealkoho]

So Nick Kypreos is reporting that Matthews wants 15M x 8y from the Leafs. Thoughts?​

Iunno I watch their show everyday on YouTube and I generally remember the topics discussed and especially major statements like this. I do remember some people talking about an 8 year deal, but that's just not in Matthews plan. He's been very clear about his strategy inregard to contract term.

I do remember some people talking about 15 but I believe that came from the TSN side, I'm guessing Dreger putting his GM hat on his dirty greasy head

 

[IPS]

He really is a 13m player. He is best goal scorer in the game. I never argued that because what is to argue.

I can argue 11.5m for Nylander is insane at the same time as 13.8 lol for Marner.

Look I have been right generally my whole time here in the big picture.

13.8m Marner NMC and this club not sniff a Stanley Cup appearance let alone win. Mark my words

Its literally already the case.

4th in takeaways.

Exactly, Draisaitl money is an insult.

 

[DarkKnight]

Most reasonable people assume Marner is getting a bit higher than Nylander. Let's say half a million is fair. So that's 12 using last year's comparison. Now factor in a cap that potentially goes up 10 percent(seems the PA is keen this year). What's 10 percent of 12? It's all about percentages so in that world 13-13.5 doesn't look as egregious as people using outdated salary cap scenarios argue. It also lends itself to the nonsense Kypreos was arguing, Marner absolutely gets that on the open market if the cap rises the maximum, there's no doubt whatsoever. Also true, we don't operate in a vacuum, guess what "cap space" crowd, be prepared to overpay through the yazoo to replace Marner, unless you're resigning yourself to mediocre fill ins. If you're going into free agency this summer, with this cap, you're getting paid and it is assuredly above true market value. This is why all this quibbling comparison stuff is ancient news, the cap is projected to really take off and if you're locking someone up long term with Marner's pedigree, it's big dollars.

The only caveat, if Marner truly wants to be a Leaf for life, he has to recognize that he does himself and enormous favour by shaving a few hundred thousand off his ask, don't extract the maximum. His agent is a rattlesnake though, might be a tough sell. Marner would probably need to be quite vocal. 12.75 on a max deal, with this cap, I'm fine with it. Matthews wasn't worth his shorter term, all up front, deal. Nylander wasn't worth his money last year, but you get it. Marner is in that environment we've created, you don't get to parse him out, it's internal as well as external realities.

Now if the cap only rises 5 percent, then 12.25 is a fair number, acceptable end game. Again, for the reasonable crowd, not the forever lame sarcasm retorts.

 

[ULF_55]

So Nick Kypreos is reporting that Matthews wants 15M x 8y from the Leafs. Thoughts?​

That's for 28-29 season ...

Age 31 - 38.

Let's hope he learns how to win in the post-season by then.

I could see him as the Ovechkin pursuer.

Caps did win 1 Cup.

1 Cup would be more than %player% since 1967.


****

IMO ... term is all that is unknown about the Little m's next contract.

Who cares about 500k-1mm at that price point?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

View attachment 933524

Fun Fact: if you take away all Wayne Gretzky's league leading 639 useless secondary assists... he would still have more goals, assists, and points than anyone else.