Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[leafs in five]

I too am curious but it can’t be worse the the previous 6-7 years of crap show playoffs

I think the seasons between 2008 and 2015 were worse than anything we've endured since but I understand the disgust people have felt about the last 6-7

 

[thewave]

I think the seasons between 2008 and 2015 were worse than anything we've endured since but I understand the disgust people have felt about the last 6-7

This is worse. This team is billed as a contender. They are extremely well paid overpaid core actually. They are not being held accountable for loss after loss after loss in the POs. It's a slap in the face to the fans direct from corporate because obviously they are prioritizing the marketing and names and sales of merch over the results on the ice.

That's why people have no tolerance for a little whiney bratty smug kid like Marner excusing himself and shifting blame at every turn. They have no right to shift blame, they are a failed core that is not being held responsible my management. That goes for Shannahan as well he is just as if not more guilty in this.

He should go down in history as the biggest failure President in NHL history. That should be his legacy. He should go F off and author a book titled how to turn solid gold into pure shit.

 

[Jojalu]

McDavid has no idea about Marners game until he sees him in a game and under pressure..
As far as Kypreos he has been a shill for Marner in particular and players in general to get more money.

McDavid would absolutely know Marner's game.

There is zero chance he hasn't paid attention while watching, or playing against him for the past 9 years.

He also hangs out with Matthews every summer.

McDavid's assesment of Marner would be worth more than posters here

 

[Apex Predator]

I think Marner will play good for Canada since he is a complimentary player on the team. The drivers for team Canada will be McDavid Crosby Mackinnon and Makar. That takes off a lot of pressure for Marner. 4 Nations will not be like playoff hockey style which benefits Marner.

 

[leafs in five]

This is worse. This team is billed as a contender. They are extremely well paid overpaid core actually. They are not being held accountable for loss after loss after loss in the POs. It's a slap in the face to the fans direct from corporate because obviously they are prioritizing the marketing and names and sales of merch over the results on the ice.

That's why people have no tolerance for a little whiney bratty smug kid like Marner excusing himself and shifting blame at every turn. They have no right to shift blame, they are a failed core that is not being held responsible my management. That goes for Shannahan as well he is just as if not more guilty in this.

He should go down in history as the biggest failure President in NHL history. That should be his legacy. He should go F off and author a book titled how to turn solid gold into pure shit.

I disagree

 

[Leaf Fans]

the "um" is especially damning

For sure, McDavid doesn't even want to be at the tournament. Listen the shocking amount of ums in this interview: 4 NATIONS: McDavid settles in with Team Canada during Monday's first practice | Edmonton Oilers
So telling. No one would use interjection as filler just talking.

 

[GoonieFace]

I would imagine he will play well since he’s with McDavid. McDavid turned notable “plug” Hyman into a 50 goal scorer.

 

[thewave]

I disagree

That's fair. What do you disagree with?

1. This team is billed as a contender
2. The team has not been well managed
3. They are holding the core for profits
4. The team lacks playoff success
5. The coaching dont players accountable
6. The teams not proactive in draft/trade
7. The team does not develop C D or Gs*
8. The team has not met expectations
9. Team has high prices lots of merch

7* Exception of Woll

Ultimately though. What has Marner done in 8 years of playoff to really push us past the first round. What are the actual results.

 

[Hellcat]

It’s clear you haven’t watch McDavid play in the playoffs. He’s made some dirty plays but come playoff time he’s been plenty physical. I think Marner should try and find the middle of the ice in the playoffs. Maybe watch a few vids of Conor Garland.

Physical in what sense?

 

[leafs in five]

That's fair. What do you disagree with?

1. This team is billed as a contender
2. The team has not been well managed
3. They are holding the core for profits
4. The team lacks playoff success
5. The coaching dont players accountable
6. The teams not proactive in draft/trade
7. The team does not develop C D or Gs*
8. The team has not met expectations
9. Team has high prices lots of merch

7* Exception of Woll

Ultimately though. What has Marner done in 8 years of playoff to really push us past the first round. What are the actual results.

I disagree that the experience of the last 6-7 years has been worse than the Burke>Nonis stretch when they were clearly managed more poorly than they are now or were under the previous regime. also disagree with the whiny bratty smug brat stuff but I know you are a bit of an evangelical about this stuff

 

[leafs in five]

the merch part especially is just like whoooooo caaaaaares

 

[thewave]

I disagree that the experience of the last 6-7 years has been worse than the Burke>Nonis stretch when they were clearly managed more poorly than they are now or were under the previous regime. also disagree with the whiny bratty smug brat stuff but I know you are a bit of an evangelical about this stuff

They ratted out Babcock. No coaches coach this team ever since. They essentially do what they want and it obvious. Never take accountability. Never

 

[Hellcat]

Not paying a 20 goal soft winger who fades in the playoffs $14m. That is not good business if your goal is to win the SC.

Silly to compare goal scoring to a goalie. That is what it has come to? Stolarz' job is to stop the puck, he is outperforming his contract, is making $2.5m and is not asking for Shesterkin money.

Why do you think Marner is worth 10x what McMann is?

Just read Gary's response to your post and his so much better than mine.

A 20 goal scorer, is that all he does? Seems like on the surface that is a purposefully disingenuous statement.

Why is he a 20 goal scorer? The last 3 years has has averaged over 30 g per season.

Why do I think Marner is worth much more than McMann?

- McMann took a "I'm just happy to be in the league contract." he is clearly grossly under paid for the production he brings. If he was a UFA at the end of season, his a 4 of 5 mil guy when you consider the rising cap.

- McMann has done this for one season and a half, Marner has produced at a high level for for 9 years.

- McMan is not an elite defender, Marner is.

- McMann is not an elite set up guy , Marner is.

- McMann is a complimentary player, Marner is an elite super star.

- Marner still scores goals at a higher pace than McMann

- Over 82 games, Marner is on pace for 108 points, McMann is on pace for 44 points.

Not sure why you defaulted to a McMann vs Marner comparison. Comparing a 3rd line complimentary player to an elite Superstar, one of the best this country has produced over the last decade, is just odd. Sorry but it was a pointless question.

 

[hullsy47]

Marner is an elite player and has been the best leaf forward more times than any other forwards this year (yes, even Willy). However, the criticisms of his playoff performances are completely warranted; he doesn't have a next gear. I would be ok with him not being a physical player, but he lacks tenacity when things get hard. Mitch is great at reading a play offensively and defensively, but he often doesn't enhance that by bursts of sheer effort which can lead to key turnovers or restarting a broken up offensive play. He has a had handful of games where he showed it, and Keefe and him called it "buzzing" or something to that extent. Like, it's ok to fail, but I want to notice you failing hard and gassed if that happens. He needs to bring that consistently, win or lose, in the playoffs, but I don't think he gets that it's a wall he needs to break though. By the way, I also believe this applies to Mathews.

I don't dislike Mitch Marner; I want him to succeed, naturally. But the point of this whole thing isn't to have really, really good players; it's to win the Stanley Cup. If he can't do it, and his future contract prevents the team from getting a player who can, then how can one justify keeping him?

Yes winning a cup .and owning your home ice
At least own 1 of top 3 home records when u have the top ticket price in the league

 

[leafs in five]

They ratted out Babcock. No coaches coach this team ever since. They essentially do what they want and it obvious. Never take accountability. Never

I disagree!

 

[thewave]

A 20 goal scorer, is that all he does? Seems like on the surface that is a purposefully disingenuous statement.

Why is he a 30 goal score , the last 3 years has has averaged over 30 g.

Why do I think Marner is worth much more than McMann?

- McMann took a "I'm just happy to be in the league contract." he is clearly grossly under paid for the production he brings. If he was a UFA at the end of season, his a 4 of 5 mil guy when you consider the rising cap.

- McMann has done this for one season and a half, Marner has produced at a high level for for 9 years.

- McMan is not an elite defender, Marner is.

- McMann is not an elite set up guy , Marner is.

- McMann is a complimentary player, Marner is an elite super star.

- Marner still scores goals at a higher pace than McMann

- Over 82 games, Marner is on pace for 108 points, McMann is on pace for 44 points.

Not sure why you defaulted to a McMann vs Marner comparison. Comparing a 3rd line complimentary player to an elite Superstar, one of the best this country has produced over the last decade, is just odd. Sorry but it was a pointless question.

Marner is a nifty shinny hockey player that does crap we joked about and did on a pond for fun. That's it. He is an attraction like Harlem Globetrotters or what have you. He can't compete in a legit hard hitting tightly contested serious hockey game. It's like Pascal Siakim and why we dumped him for not being able to perform in the playoffs without a Kawhi.

You're free to feel differently but the results don't lie. The stats aren't fake. He is an elimination game fader and as far as games 5 6 7 in any series his performance are less than a Kerfoot.

You know who signs Marner? A stupid manager worried about his job and needs a star attraction to do kids moves on the ice with higher degree of success than everyone else that does that junk. Most just let it die in Jr's.

There are now all kinds of kids doing lame Marner moves trying to replicate his lame hockey gimmick. Guy is going to ruin serious athletes with NHL aspirations ffs

 

[JL17]

Physical in what sense?

Every playoff series I’ve watched he’s out their laying hits.

 

[thewave]

Every playoff series I’ve watched he’s out their laying hits.

He does. So does Crosby. It's more fake narrative bs in defense of a soft perimeter player. If Don Cherry were still around and were honest he would be calling Marner more Swedish than Nylander.

 

[ToneDog]

A 20 goal scorer, is that all he does? Seems like on the surface that is a purposefully disingenuous statement.

Why is he a 20 goal scorer? The last 3 years has has averaged over 30 g per season.

Why do I think Marner is worth much more than McMann?

- McMann took a "I'm just happy to be in the league contract." he is clearly grossly under paid for the production he brings. If he was a UFA at the end of season, his a 4 of 5 mil guy when you consider the rising cap.

- McMann has done this for one season and a half, Marner has produced at a high level for for 9 years.

- McMan is not an elite defender, Marner is.

- McMann is not an elite set up guy , Marner is.

- McMann is a complimentary player, Marner is an elite super star.

- Marner still scores goals at a higher pace than McMann

- Over 82 games, Marner is on pace for 108 points, McMann is on pace for 44 points.

Not sure why you defaulted to a McMann vs Marner comparison. Comparing a 3rd line complimentary player to an elite Superstar, one of the best this country has produced over the last decade, is just odd. Sorry but it was a pointless question.

His goals are trending down. He was a 30+ goal scorer but is now closer to 20+. Not worth $14m but wants to be paid more than rocket winners for 82 assists.

16 goal scorer in playoffs.

 

[Racer88]

I think the seasons between 2008 and 2015 were worse than anything we've endured since but I understand the disgust people have felt about the last 6-7

I think what frustrates me the most is we had the chance to really make something out of this rebuild but Dubas blew with the Tavares deal and contract negotiations with the other three.
What we have ended up with is 4 talented players that can’t get it done as a team

 

[Hellcat]

Every playoff series I’ve watched he’s out their laying hits.

I had a sneeze this morning with more force.... .

OK lets sketch this out, so Marner hits more over the last 9 series, he's a mad man hitting everyone in sight, the only difference is Marner is a hitting machine, how many series do we win as a result of his increased physicality? Pro tip: It's still only one series.

 

[Hellcat]

His goals are trending down. He was a 30+ goal scorer but is now closer to 20+. Not worth $14m.

16 goal scorer in playoffs.

So ignore the elite defensive play, the elite setup abilities and gauge players value ONLY on how many goals they score? That is the only metric teams can use to establish a players value?

Why are you conflating a players salary and his playoff performance? Not sure I understand your logic?

 

[Gary Nylund]

McDavid's assesment of Marner would be worth more than posters here

Yes and no. I mean strictly speaking, yes. But what he says to the media will almost certainly be complimentary no matter what so it doesn't carry much weight.

I disagree that the experience of the last 6-7 years has been worse than the Burke>Nonis stretch when they were clearly managed more poorly than they are now or were under the previous regime. also disagree with the whiny bratty smug brat stuff but I know you are a bit of an evangelical about this stuff

Hard to compare. Being a terrible non-playoff team for many years is clearly worse, that's one way to look at it. The other way is that there were no expectations so no massive disappointments which is what we're going through now - the gap between playoff expectations and achievements is almost unparalleled in NA pro sports history.

Cliff Notes: To each his own, there is no right or wrong here.

Marner is a nifty shinny hockey player that does crap we joked about and did on a pond for fun. That's it. He is an attraction like Harlem Globetrotters or what have you. He can't compete in a legit hard hitting tightly contested serious hockey game. It's like Pascal Siakim and why we dumped him for not being able to perform in the playoffs without a Kawhi.

You're free to feel differently but the results don't lie. The stats aren't fake. He is an elimination game fader and as far as games 5 6 7 in any series his performance are less than a Kerfoot.

You know who signs Marner? A stupid manager worried about his job and needs a star attraction to do kids moves on the ice with higher degree of success than everyone else that does that junk. Most just let it die in Jr's.

There are now all kinds of kids doing lame Marner moves trying to replicate his lame hockey gimmick. Guy is going to ruin serious athletes with NHL aspirations ffs

He'll pass the puck to McD a couple of times tonight, those will turn into a couple of assists and since there is no official low calorie point asterix next to the points, his market value will be up to 14.8 million tomorrow.

 

[Racer88]

I disagree!

Sorry if I’m butting in but this is an awesome retort. 2 words, simple and to the point. Put the onus back on the other poster to explain why they said what they said.
You put a smile on my face this morning and I may borrow this.
Well done

 

[thewave]

Sorry if I’m butting in but this is an awesome retort. 2 words, simple and to the point. Put the onus back on the other poster to explain why they said what they said.
You put a smile on my face this morning and I may borrow this.
Well done

I object