Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[Stephen]

If he gets 14 x 8 from Toronto, he’ll end up getting Larry Murphy’d out of Toronto before the deal is half done. Maybe it’s just me but his breakaway speed looks worse this year, I don’t see his gaming aging well over the course of an 8 year deal, hopefully he wants a short term deal like Matthews.

I think the outrage will just be the simmering continuation and never boil over over the new deal.

 

[Gallagbi]

Matthews doesn’t get a hall pass from me. He’s the most greedy out of the three. He’s just smart enough to be quiet about it.

Let’s call a spade a spade. Marner was the hometown boy that everyone EXPECTED to take a discount because he loves the leafs. When he didn’t and his agent negotiated publicly he lost the fans. That’s on Marner. But he was doomed from the start bc everyone expected him to take the discount and that is pure delusion on our part.

Matthews has a Hart and multiple 60 goal seasons. They're on a different level.

The funny thing with Marner is he should have taken the discount for his own benefit. He backed himself into a corner, had a very vocal group around him during negotiations and clearly couldn't handle the pressure as we saw with the post basically apologizing about it.

 

[francis246]

Worth noting Colorado just showed they’re operating in real world dollars not cap percentages. I think a lot of owners, who are signing the cheques, would feel similarly.

I doubt this is true. Stan Kronke owns multiple teams. The avalanche are probably his least revenue generating franchise. That’s probably why they have an operational budget. Similar to the Sabres with their ownership. There maybe a few teams with a strong internal budget but single owners or owners who’s franchises are generating a ton of money for them will not be afraid to spend.

 

[thewave]

Matthews has a Hart and multiple 60 goal seasons. They're on a different level.

The funny thing with Marner is he should have taken the discount for his own benefit. He backed himself into a corner, had a very vocal group around him during negotiations and clearly couldn't handle the pressure as we saw with the post basically apologizing about it.

He is a businessman marketing his athletic ability. Everything makes sense when you dispel the illusion that it's all about GTA Toronto boy, win a cup etc. It's not. It's all about maximize career earnings period.

It's so blatantly obvious too. There ain't an angle left untapped.

 

[Confucius]

Difference being, Matthews actually lived up to his previous contract, so him getting a 1.6 million dollar raise isn’t so egregious.

Marner was overpaid 2m per season on his last deal, and now he wants a 3 million dollar raise. See the difference?

The only way he would be worth 14 would be if he could turn a 20 goal player into a 50 a season player

 

[francis246]

Why is it delusional to expect the logical? Ask anyone, if they work for their favourite company that happens to be located in their home city, would they uproot quit and move out of town for a 10% raise, quite possibly to another country? Especially these days, People hate change.

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. Stop equating sports to real life jobs. It’s not equivalent, it’s not even in the same stratosphere of comparison. So I don’t really give two shits what people in everyday life are doing and I doubt any athlete does.

Why is it delusional? Because they aren’t working normal jobs for one. They are professional athletes. They are looking to maximize earnings, most athletes view themselves as brands.

2. Just because Marner is from Toronto, and grey up dreaming of playing for the leafs does not mean he should or would take a discount and that’s what many fans were banking on. His love for the leafs would supersede his desire to make money. In reality very few athletes have that mentality. So expecting him to have that was were we went wrong.

3. I don’t think any player is that attached to a team that bad. I know we want to believe that these guys would kill to be here but Most of these guys would leave in a heart beat if the situation was right and the money was comparable. I think in a candid moment if you were to ask Marner if he’d take less or the same to leaf Toronto but play beside Nathan MacKinnon in Colorado, McDavid in Edmonton, or go bolster Vegas, he’d say hell yes even though he loves being a leaf.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I heard when Kyle was buying a house in Pittsburgh listed for $1m, the agent told him there was a bid on the house for $2m, so Kyle bought the house for $3m because he could and he did.

Bonus points for that one.

 

[Smif]

Worth noting Colorado just showed they’re operating in real world dollars not cap percentages. I think a lot of owners, who are signing the cheques, would feel similarly.

Not so sure about that. They may have just straight up preferred Necas++ over Rantanen.

 

[francis246]

Matthews has a Hart and multiple 60 goal seasons. They're on a different level.

The funny thing with Marner is he should have taken the discount for his own benefit. He backed himself into a corner, had a very vocal group around him during negotiations and clearly couldn't handle the pressure as we saw with the post basically apologizing about it.

Why should he? So he can make a few people who he’ll never meet happy or hate him less lol? Everyone’s different, maybe he didn’t feel that was worth sacrificing 5-6 million dollars over. And quite frankly I don’t blame him. Fans will turn on you at any point, whether he was making 9.5 or 10.9. If his production remained the same, people would be upset. So get your bread.

 

[Confucius]

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. Stop equating sports to real life jobs. It’s not equivalent, it’s not even in the same stratosphere of comparison. So I don’t really give two shits what people in everyday life are doing and I doubt any athlete does.

Why is it delusional? Because they aren’t working normal jobs for one. They are professional athletes. They are looking to maximize earnings, most athletes view themselves as brands.

2. Just because Marner is from Toronto, and grey up dreaming of playing for the leafs does not mean he should or would take a discount and that’s what many fans were banking on. His love for the leafs would supersede his desire to make money. In reality very few athletes have that mentality. So expecting him to have that was were we went wrong.

3. I don’t think any player is that attached to a team that bad. I know we want to believe that these guys would kill to be here but Most of these guys would leave in a heart beat if the situation was right and the money was comparable. I think in a candid moment if you were to ask Marner if he’d take less or the same to leaf Toronto but play beside Nathan MacKinnon in Colorado, McDavid in Edmonton, or go bolster Vegas, he’d say hell yes even though he loves being a leaf.

Oh well I would prefer to raise my future children near their grandparents but that’s just me. And what people with regular jobs are not trying to make the most they can?

 

[francis246]

Oh well I would prefer to raise my future children near their grandparents but that’s just me. And what people with regular jobs are not trying to make the most they can?

The above is why I keep saying relating normal life to an athlete. That is something that can be solved, these guys are rich enough to fly their parents out whenever they want. They could probably even move their parents to their next city if that’s what they wanted.

I also think families of athletes understand that there will be a period of time where they may be away from each other. It’s what they sign up for as athletes.

 

[Hellcat]

Why is it delusional to expect the logical? Ask anyone, if they work for their favourite company that happens to be located in their home city, would they uproot quit and move out of town for a 10% raise, quite possibly to another country? Especially these days, People hate change.

10% more when you are above 10 mil per year, is 7mil plus over 7 years, would I move for 7 mil? The answer is obvious.

When you are one of the greatest players in franchise history, most likely a 1st ballot HHOFer. It's not logical to expect that person to take a discount. At best it is faulty fan logic at worse it delusional fan logic.

 

[Antropovsky]

I mean TSN ran the story. I’m not sure they are running that without verifying the truth about it. Many other outlets ran the story. So it’s likely true that he got two offer sheets. Maybe the AAV numbers of those offer sheets are fabricated or enhanced for public perception or leverage in negotiations but I doubt they are lying about receiving offer sheets.

Didn’t Dreger and frideman both speak to the offer sheets as well? I swear someone quoted frideman yesterday speaking on the offer sheets

What we do know is that the offersheets sucked and weren't better than the contract the leafs gave him.

Otherwise Marners team wouldn't made damn sure that the entire media knew the details of the offersheet and that good ol Mitch Marner took a lesser deal to stay with the leafs. But both Ferris and Marner refused to ever comment on what the contracts were and we still dont know. However, Ferris has made sure to repeat their were two offersheets lol.

 

[Mr_Fun]

10% more when you are above 10 mil per year, is 7mil plus over 7 years, would I move for 7 mil? The answer is obvious.

When you are one of the greatest players in franchise history, most likely a 1st ballot HHOFer. It's not logical to expect that person to take a discount. At best it is faulty fan logic at worse it delusional fan logic.

Agreed. I don’t expect a discount, but one can always hope.

 

[Confucius]

10% more when you are above 10 mil per year, is 7mil plus over 7 years, would I move for 7 mil? The answer is obvious.

I wouldn’t, if I had 70 million and was certain I’d get another 88 million within 8 years, I’m good. Drop the kids off at grandma’s before a game, stop by for coffee after a game. Enjoy my family life but go ahead move to the states for that extra 7 million. So instead of being worth 158 million you now have 165, big whoop.

 

[francis246]

What we do know is that the offersheets sucked and weren't better than the contract the leafs gave him.

Otherwise Marners team wouldn't made damn sure that the entire media knew the details of the offersheet and that good ol Mitch Marner took a lesser deal to stay with the leafs. But both Ferris and Marner refused to ever comment on what the contracts were and still we have found out what they were.

Yup I agree, alluded to that in the post that quoted me. I think they may have altered the numbers but I’m sure he got two offer sheets. I’m not buying a team was willing to give up 4 firsts for him.

 

[Hellcat]

All the fancy dancing and stick handling won't help him if he does not have a closer. You have a $13+m soft winger who needs to play with a elite goal scorers or he is useless.

Here's your assist leaders. Mitch is only ahead of an injured Q Hughes in goals. $13+m my ass. GTFO.

View attachment 974765

Which elite goal score was he playing with when Matthews was injured for half of the season and is that elite scorer going to be on the team next year? Is Matthews going somewhere? Is Nylander going to be on the team next year? Are you implying the Leafs are not going to try and improve their top 6 next year? If Nylander, Knies, Matthews, McMann are going to be on the team next year the bolded part is a moot point no?

 

[francis246]

Agreed. I don’t expect a discount, but one can always hope.

Absolutely, as a fan you hope the players a willing to take less to keep the team competitive.

But I remember back then people were really expecting Marner to take less because he’s the hometown kid. I honestly feel like that’s where a lot of resentment comes from. People would kill to be in Marner’s position and feel like they’d do everything to help the team if they were a leafs fan & got drafted to the leafs. But the reality is, when you’re in that situation there are a ton of stakeholders that will advise you to take more if it’s available. Also maybe you genuinely feel you deserve to be paid that much. (we also have to remind ourselves the leafs willingly gave Marner 10.9)

 

[Mr_Fun]

Absolutely, as a fan you hope the players a willing to take less to keep the team competitive.

But I remember back then people were really expecting Marner to take less because he’s the hometown kid. I honestly feel like that’s where a lot of resentment comes from. People would kill to be in Marner’s position and feel like they’d do everything to help the team if they were a leafs fan & got drafted to the leafs. But the reality is, when you’re in that situation there are a ton of stakeholders that will advise you to take more if it’s available. Also maybe you genuinely feel you deserve to be paid that much. (we also have to remind ourselves the leafs willingly gave Marner 10.9)

Yeah, you can take a bit of a discount but you can’t lowball yourself as that tends to drive prices down and is not seen as cool by your union bros.

 

[Confucius]

Yeah, you can take a bit of a discount but you can’t lowball yourself as that tends to drive prices down and is not seen as cool by your union bros.

I’d agree if there wasn’t a cap, unions are about equality and if the team spends the most they are allowed all should be happy.

 

[Hellcat]

I wouldn’t, if I had 70 million and was certain I’d get another 88 million within 8 years, I’m good. Drop the kids off at grandma’s before a game, stop by for coffee after a game. Enjoy my family life but go ahead move to the states for that extra 7 million. So instead of being worth 158 million you now have 165, big whoop.

It's evident that you don't understand that players dont actually pocket their gross salary? Most players pocket 30% to 40% of their gross. Once their career is over the money train stops. It's disingenuous to say big whoop to 7mil when for you it's just a number that you will never see in your bank account.

30% of 70 mil is 21 mil, it more than most people will see in a life time but if you are use to a certain lifestyle, you wont want to change that after you retire. You wouldn't tell your wife to not take her next raise but for some reason you feel you get to have an opinion on a complete strangers income. Fans feeling that their opinion on a players pay cheque, is something they need to share with the world, is just odd to me.

If you have an issue with how the GM manages his roster, that is one thing but to go after a stranger for getting paid, is unusual and pointlessly intrusive.

 

[thewave]

It's evident that you don't understand that players dont actually pocket their gross salary? Most players pocket 30% to 40% of their gross. Once their career is over the money train stops. It's disingenuous to say big whoop to 7mil when for you it's just a number that you will never see in your bank account.

30% of 70 mil is 21 mil, it more than most people will see in a life time but if you are use to a certain lifestyle, you wont want to change that after you retire. You wouldn't tell your wife to not take her next raise but for some reason you feel you get to have an opinion on a complete strangers income. Fans feeling that their opinion on a players pay cheque is something they need to share with the world is just odd to me.

If you have an issue with how the GM manages his roster, that is one thing but to go after a stranger for getting paid, is unusually and pointlessly intrusive.

Pretty sure I have heard there are many mechanisms the big players use to get the tax way down.

 

[Confucius]

It's evident that you don't understand that players dont actually pocket their gross salary? Most players pocket 30% to 40% of their gross. Once their career is over the money train stops. It's disingenuous to say big whoop to 7mil when for you it's just a number that you will never see in your bank account.

30% of 70 mil is 21 mil, it more than most people will see in a life time but if you are use to a certain lifestyle, you wont want to change that after you retire. You wouldn't tell your wife to not take her next raise but for some reason you feel you get to have an opinion on a complete strangers income. Fans feeling that their opinion on a players pay cheque, is something they need to share with the world, is just odd to me.

If you have an issue with how the GM manages his roster, that is one thing but to go after a stranger for getting paid, is unusually and pointlessly intrusive.

And 30 % of 7 million is what 2 million. Whatever I would stay for less, you wouldn’t , great

 

[Hellcat]

And 30 % of 7 million is what 2 million. Whatever I would stay for less, you wouldn’t , great

That is precisely the point, different strokes for different folks. Just because you wouldn't do it, does not mean that because Mitch would it is the wrong choice. Everyone has their own path to follow.

 

[Confucius]

That is precisely the point, different strokes for different folks. Just because you wouldn't do it, does not mean that because Mitch would it is the wrong choice. Everyone has their own path to follow.

Exactly, whatever floats your boat.