Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[freshwind]

But there were two offer sheets, and it's likely that at least one was for more money. Marner didn't take them because he wanted to be a Leaf, not because of what the offer was.

THIS has been discussed many times.
the offer sheet for columbus was for 8 years, mitchy refused to sign for 8 but would have for 5, columbus balked at giving up the picks for only 5 years ... was talked about a great deal ... mitchy is not as loyal to the leafs as you are to him

 

[Dekes For Days]

the offer sheet for columbus was for 8 years, mitchy refused to sign for 8 but would have for 5

There's no evidence that Marner would have signed any offer sheet. He wanted to be a Leaf.

 

[freshwind]

There's no evidence that Marner would have signed any offer sheet. He wanted to be a Leaf.

why are your recollections always stated as facts? either you are on the inside (aka marner's pr or family) or you have decided to double down on your feelings rather than entertain the reality that maybe everyone doesn't see the world and game through your views which you consistently state as fact and disregard anyone else's opinion and brush it off as wrong ...
honest question - don't you find it tiring?

PS - it WAS reported that ferris counter offered the columbus 8 year offer with 5 ...

 

[kevsh]

Berube has access to the same stats as Justin Bourne does, yet he refused to split them up until Mitch was injured:

Why separating Matthews and Marner may work better for Maple Leafs

Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner have been elite offensive forces in the NHL since their rookie seasons and have mostly played on the same line. But Justin Bourne writes why separating them may help the Leafs unlock the team's full potential.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Dekes For Days]

why are your recollections always stated as facts?

The only one doing that is you. I just noted that there isn't any evidence of your claim, and that Marner himself contradicted it, and said he wasn't concerned with the offer sheets because he wanted to be a Leaf.

 

[leafs in five]

Show us all the plays you consider him as the play driver

 

[AvroArrow]

Complete player is a nebulous term so whatever. You said he's the best, and he's not.

Who in your opinion has been better than Marner this year ? Certainly not Matthews or Nylander to this point. Maybe an argument for 1 of the goaltenders, not really though.

He's easily been the best Leaf up until this point and he's been playing in all situations and has redefined his game. He's not being soft and staying around the perimeter. He's hitting guys, he's forechecking, he's getting to the net, he's getting into scrums.

 

[Antropovsky]

That's not true, of course. We've gone over this a number of times. And what happens every time is you arbitrarily conclude that everything Marner did was either worthless or harmful, no matter what it is. Just like you have for every point he's ever gotten in his career.

Maybe one day, he'll get a point that you recognize as legitimate, but I'm not holding my breath. I'd probably suffocate.

Naa former hockey players and analysts agree with my observations for ex biz and hrudey separate platoff segments saying his effort is pathetic, Ryan Whitney, Sean Avery, Commodore, there was another former player who posted the video of Marner pulling the chute...the list goes on and on. But hey..Dekes knows more than former NHL players.

 

[freshwind]

The only one doing that is you. I just noted that there isn't any evidence of your claim, and that Marner himself contradicted it, and said he wasn't concerned with the offer sheets because he wanted to be a Leaf.

very quick google search
you are not omnipotent as you would like us all to believe
and all of the ferris quotes were AFTER he signed, of course he said "i always wanted to be a leaf"
if all the talk about offer sheets was just smoke then why the pitiful letter to the fans?
can't have it both ways - have a good evening


“From what I heard, ... If Columbus was going to do it, it had to be for seven years. And I think what I heard Marner was looking for — or what his side was looking for — was less term than that.”

If Columbus or any other team is willing to give up four first-round picks for Marner, it makes sense for teams to shoot for a seven-year term. It’s for that reason Friedman feels the offer sheet fell by the wayside.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Naa former hockey players and analysts agree with my observations

Media personalities rage baiting to get clicks say some of the things you say. Everybody actually in the NHL values Marner a ton.

of course he said "i always wanted to be a leaf" if all the talk about offer sheets was just smoke then why the pitiful letter to the fans?

He said he always wanted to be a Leaf because he always wanted to be a Leaf. I'm not sure what you think those two things have to do with each other.

“From what I heard, ... If Columbus was going to do it, it had to be for seven years. And I think what I heard Marner was looking for — or what his side was looking for — was less term than that.”

What one media guy "thinks he heard" isn't a fact, and whatever Ferris was negotiating with teams, it doesn't mean Marner would have signed it. He got two offer sheets, and didn't sign them.

 

[Gallagbi]

THIS has been discussed many times.
the offer sheet for columbus was for 8 years, mitchy refused to sign for 8 but would have for 5, columbus balked at giving up the picks for only 5 years ... was talked about a great deal ... mitchy is not as loyal to the leafs as you are to him

Aren't RFA/UFA deals capped at 7 years for the non resigning team?

Naa former hockey players and analysts agree with my observations for ex biz and hrudey separate platoff segments saying his effort is pathetic, Ryan Whitney, Sean Avery, Commodore, there was another former player who posted the video of Marner pulling the chute...the list goes on and on. But hey..Dekes knows more than former NHL players.

There's former (and current) players an Analysts who support him as well, so it makes sense the fanbase would also be divided when there's no consensus.

 

[Raging Bull]

why are your recollections always stated as facts? either you are on the inside (aka marner's pr or family) or you have decided to double down on your feelings rather than entertain the reality that maybe everyone doesn't see the world and game through your views which you consistently state as fact and disregard anyone else's opinion and brush it off as wrong ...
honest question - don't you find it tiring?

PS - it WAS reported that ferris counter offered the columbus 8 year offer with 5 ...

Link? You can't counter an offer sheet as far as I know. If you are going to spout shit and accuse other people of making shit up you better be able to back up your claims.

 

[freshwind]

Aren't RFA/UFA deals capped at 7 years for the non resigning team?

yes, my bad

Link? You can't counter an offer sheet as far as I know. If you are going to spout shit and accuse other people of making shit up you better be able to back up your claims.

not spouting shit ... why the hostility?
show me in the cba where the agent can't counter... and to be up front, i have not read the cba ...

i never accused any one of talking shit ... that is your term ... buh bye, i'm done with the magic mitchy crew

 

[Gary Nylund]

Who in your opinion has been better than Marner this year ? Certainly not Matthews or Nylander to this point. Maybe an argument for 1 of the goaltenders, not really though.

He's easily been the best Leaf up until this point and he's been playing in all situations and has redefined his game. He's not being soft and staying around the perimeter. He's hitting guys, he's forechecking, he's getting to the net, he's getting into scrums.

Read post #1375.

 

[Maple Leaf]

The post I commented on said nothing about "this year" or "this season".

I found post 1375

 

[Gary Nylund]

I found post 1375

Yeah I get why some people would say he's been our best player this season (though he wouldn't get my vote), but to say he's our best player without some qualifiers is what I was commenting on. Matthews is our best player, it's not close, the end.

 

[francis246]

Naa former hockey players and analysts agree with my observations for ex biz and hrudey separate platoff segments saying his effort is pathetic, Ryan Whitney, Sean Avery, Commodore, there was another former player who posted the video of Marner pulling the chute...the list goes on and on. But hey..Dekes knows more than former NHL players.

There’s also been a shit ton of former players who sing Marner’s praises every week on the radio, during games. So who cares? Everyone has an opinion on the guy. Some people like him, some people don’t lol. That’s what makes him so polarizing.

Yeah I get why some people would say he's been our best player this season (though he wouldn't get my vote), but to say he's our best player without some qualifiers is what I was commenting on. Matthews is our best player, it's not close, the end.

Is he?

 

[Sundinisagod]

Objection, speculation ... and baseless speculation at that.

Not a single GM was tendering him an offer sheet for $11m or he would've taken it. You could twist or distort history and the facts, like you have a tendency to like to do, but the fact is he was not worth more than $9-$9.5 AAV on the open market at that time.

Fact is teams were not lining up to offer sheet him like Ferris or Paul Marner or Darren Dreger would have you believe, only Mr. "We-can-and-we-will" was a sucker enough to fall for that line and let the Marner camp take him behind the woodshed and have him over a barrel

Marnerites will have to do better than:

“Every gm in the league agrees with me, because I said so, therefore it is fact.”

 

[Gabriel426]

Crosby willingly decided to take less than market value. I don’t think it’s the smartest thing but it worked well for him. Other players probably won’t because the team will eventually screw you when you don’t serve them anymore. The penguins would never do that to Crosby so he’s in a more privileged spot than others to do so.

I think Sid’s case is different in that he literally won within a few years in the league and understand winning the Cup needs more than him being the best player in the league.

MacKinnon is another one who took less in his deal after winning the Cup as he also understands the fact that it takes more than being the player for winning the Cup.

Funny thing was, the medias didn’t say anything about Mack being unsigned in his final year or Avs needed to sign him before he hits UFA or Mack was testing UFA or now Avs will need to pay the max after Mack winning the Cup…. It seemed like the whole Hockey World knows he is resigning and the only question is $.

Personally, I don’t think players should take discounts bc I don’t like taking discounts at my work. That’s why I am not mad at players signing whatever they can get, just mad at GMs who gives them overvalued contracts for the simple reason of ‘we need this player’ and win the offseason.

He has a NMC. I’m sure most of us wouldn’t mind a trade, but he’s going to block it.

If he didn’t, I’d be hoping Toronto trades him to Buffalo for some of their young players. And this is coming from someone who is a fan of Marner’s game. I would love a Jack Quinn, Cozens for Marner type deal.

Overall, I do think Leafs or all NHL teams should really adopt the Vegas approach. When it is not working, bye. lol.

MM to Sabres for Cozens and Power would be awesome

 

[Mr_Fun]

Yeah I get why some people would say he's been our best player this season (though he wouldn't get my vote), but to say he's our best player without some qualifiers is what I was commenting on. Matthews is our best player, it's not close, the end.

When Matthews gets his mojo going again, I agree that he’s our best player. But overall for this season, I honestly think it has been Marner. Don’t get me wrong; Willy has been pretty close and has certainly been “the man” on a lot of nights.

 

[Gabriel426]

When Matthews gets his mojo going again, I agree that he’s our best player. But overall for this season, I honestly think it has been Marner. Don’t get me wrong; Willy has been pretty close and has certainly been “the man” on a lot of nights.

In this Matthews era.

AM is clearly the best Leafs, there is no doubt about that.
However, AM is really only dominant every other year. Mostly bc of injuries.

 

[ULF_55]

Link? You can't counter an offer sheet as far as I know. If you are going to spout shit and accuse other people of making shit up you better be able to back up your claims.

Offersheet ... obviously not existing team or they don't have to offersheet ... limited to 7 years.


AI says:
In the NHL, you can only present one offer sheet to a single player at a time; you cannot present multiple offer sheets to the same restricted free agent during the negotiation period.

• "at a time"

IMO, only family and agent and team making the offersheet would really know if more than one offersheet was presented to marner.

NHL offer sheet, explained: Compensation, qualifications for signing restricted free agents | Sporting News Canada

Offer sheets aren't as common nowadays as they used to be in the NHL.

www.sportingnews.com

 

[Antropovsky]

Matthews 2 games without Marner on his line.
2 5v5 assists

Matthews previous 11 games with Marner on his line:
2 5v5 assists

Hope we keep Marner off Matthews line for a bit.

Shockingly Matthews also recently had 0 high danger shots in 6 out of 8 games while on a line with Marner. That span was just two games before Marners one off due to injury.

"Best playmaker in the world" playing with the best goal scorer in the world and they aren't generating high danger scoring chances in that many consecutive games?

 

[Antropovsky]

I want to be more civil in conversation with you and less fishing for arguments.

Don’t you feel this is a bit nitpicky? Does it really matter how the goals were scored? Knies for example is not a line driver, scores a lot of his goals off tips and rebounds. Should we diminish his goals as well because he didn’t drive the play that lead to the goal? It just seems like there really isn’t a strong foundational argument here. It’s just you don’t really love the player, which is fine. But he still scored the goals, whether they were tap ins or long wristers it’s shouldn’t matter. A goal is a goal.

Are you comparing 1 million dollar Knies to 11 million dollar Marner? Compare apples to apples... which is Kucherov, Mcdavid...etc.

 

[francis246]

Are you comparing 1 million dollar Knies to 11 million dollar Marner? Compare apples to apples... which is Kucherov, Mcdavid...etc.

It has nothing to do with salaries, it has everything to do with nitpicking goals. It seems pointless. Who cares? Why does it matter to you so much how he scores goals? I’ve never seen anyone care that much how goals go in. I get if it’s empty net vs regular goals. But if he’s scoring regular goals who cares? Whether it comes from the point or in tight, who gives a shit? As long as it’s going in.

You’re saying that driving play to score the goals matters and I’m saying lots of players do not drive play but end up scoring goals in a variety of ways. Hyper fixating on Marner’s goals and trying to diminish every point he gets does come across hater-ish IMO.