Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[leafan11]

If Tanenbaum wants Marner, Marner re-signs. Tanenbaum will be the one who decides.

He’s not the owner of the team going forward.

 

[BTP]

LOLOL.

most complete player on the team this season easily

 

[Gary Nylund]

most complete player on the team this season easily

Complete player is a nebulous term so whatever. You said he's the best, and he's not.

 

[supermann_98]

Don't know why a UFA would drive RFA negotiations.

Seems to me the GM (or his bosses) screwed up.

Would the Leafs have been any worse with 4 1st. round picks to use after marner offersheet?

More importantly they could have easily just called the Marner camp's bluff and let the Marner camp sign an offer sheet elsewhere, and instead of taking the 4 1st round picks they could have just matched the contract and get him back for less than they ended up paying him because NOBODY was giving him close to $11 million on an RFA deal, only our idiot GM at the time.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes, because marner was going to sign for much less on an offersheet ...

It wouldn't be much less. We were only like 300k over the threshold. A team could have offered 10.55m x 5, and he'd barely take a hit on AAV and get to go to UFA a year earlier. Not to mention how the distorted year 1 cap would have screwed us the deeper we went into the season.

NOBODY was giving him close to $11 million on an RFA deal

Every team would have given him it, or an equivalent value contract. GMs understand how good he was.

 

[thewave]

Complete player is a nebulous term so whatever. You said he's the best, and he's not.

You know Gary. In a sense Mitch is the most complete player, he is an absolute gamer and may be the greatest gamer in NHL history.

Firstly, he is a good hockey player, nobody can take that away from the guy. The thing is Gary, there has never been a player that has been able to capitalize on virtually everything to his level.

He has endeared himself to all modern gamer kids with an exceptional campaign showing hockey players are gamers too. The youth worship him in the GTA. Elite

He started a foundation to help kids who cant read and write good but want to do other things good to. His whole family is on the payroll allegedly but that's fine. It doesn't matter if 20% makes it to the target or like Bono One foundation where 1% made it. Elite

He endorses everything. Good on him. Elite

He is like Teflon always blaming other things and it works for him for the most part. That's a skill. Elite.

He has a way of getting what he wants as well, linemates etc it seems. That's impressive as well.

So here we have a GTA guy selling love of the Leafs, getting paid 10'$ of millions of dollars over his actual play worth value. 3M in endorsements as well. What next? His own Crypto like Trump? SKY IS THE LIMITS.

For all that. I respect him, he is an ELITE business person.

 

[HolyCrap]

Best, most important, and most versatile player on the team quite easily. He could easily play C or D if needed. Best passer, sets up the most goals, best PKer on the team, runs the PP. He's simply the best leaf.

You might wanna put a sarcastic emoji on this post so people know you’re not serious.

 

[ToneDog]

More importantly they could have easily just called the Marner camp's bluff and let the Marner camp sign an offer sheet elsewhere, and instead of taking the 4 1st round picks they could have just matched the contract and get him back for less than they ended up paying him because NOBODY was giving him close to $11 million on an RFA deal, only our idiot GM at the time.

You are assuming the guy who wore glasses to look intelligent was intelligent. Wrong.

 

[keonsbitterness]

He’s not the owner of the team going forward.

Or before as he had limited power under Bell+Rogers. Any major decision had to approved by them.

 

[francis246]

Why can sydney crosby sign in pittsburgh with no fanfare
Yet people are saying marner will get 14 mill
I doubt ud get crosby for marner straight up
Especially trying to convince your fans hes worth more
But its painfully obvious marner wants to come out of this making more than draisatl
The leafs need a bigtime norris caliber defenseman as much or more than over paying a forward
If u gave me makar , minus marner id say the odds are even better in the playoffs

Crosby willingly decided to take less than market value. I don’t think it’s the smartest thing but it worked well for him. Other players probably won’t because the team will eventually screw you when you don’t serve them anymore. The penguins would never do that to Crosby so he’s in a more privileged spot than others to do so.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Complete player is a nebulous term so whatever. You said he's the best, and he's not.

I love both Auston and Big Willie Styles, but so far this year neither has been our best or most important player. You gotta at least admit that this season he has been our best and most important player. It's not even been close, really.

 

[supermann_98]

You are assuming the guy who wore glasses to look intelligent was intelligent. Wrong.

I "did" call him an idiot GM so in reality I didn't fall for his little fake-glasses routine

 

[supermann_98]

It wouldn't be much less. We were only like 300k over the threshold. A team could have offered 10.55m x 5, and he'd barely take a hit on AAV and get to go to UFA a year earlier. Not to mention how the distorted year 1 cap would have screwed us the deeper we went into the season.

Every team would have given him it, or an equivalent value contract. GMs understand how good he was.

Objection, speculation ... and baseless speculation at that.

Not a single GM was tendering him an offer sheet for $11m or he would've taken it. You could twist or distort history and the facts, like you have a tendency to like to do, but the fact is he was not worth more than $9-$9.5 AAV on the open market at that time.

Fact is teams were not lining up to offer sheet him like Ferris or Paul Marner or Darren Dreger would have you believe, only Mr. "We-can-and-we-will" was a sucker enough to fall for that line and let the Marner camp take him behind the woodshed and have him over a barrel

 

[ULF_55]

Best, most important, and most versatile player on the team quite easily. He could easily play C or D if needed. Best passer, sets up the most goals, best PKer on the team, runs the PP. He's simply the best leaf.

He can't play center well enough to be a top 2 center or he'd be playing center.

I'm sure most top 3 forwards could play center, but there is a reason they're playing wing ... they're better at it.

Draisaitl for example plays both wing and center, but he isn't in the group of "most." And actually, McDavid defers to him for important face-offs.

 

[arso40]

I love both Auston and Big Willie Styles, but so far this year neither has been our best or most important player. You gotta at least admit that this season he has been our best and most important player. It's not even been close, really.

Our most important player(s)are our goaltenders don’t let that thought get lost on you Matthew’s is our best player marner is one of our best players and a damn good player especially when there’s no pressure pressure makes diamonds there’s a jewel for you he’s gotta a ways to go before he can over take Matthew’s period and I don’t see it happening to small and not engaged enough physically

 

[34]

The MLSE needs to take a page from Colorado, and trade Marner. He is not worth more than Willy Nylander. If Marner is not willing to take a pay cut, get him out of Toronto.

Let him go to free agency and he will not get an offer over $10M.

 

[francis246]

The MLSE needs to take a page from Colorado, and trade Marner. He is not worth more than Willy Nylander. If Marner is not willing to take a pay cut, get him out of Toronto.

Let him go to free agency and he will not get an offer over $10M.

He has a NMC. I’m sure most of us wouldn’t mind a trade, but he’s going to block it.

If he didn’t, I’d be hoping Toronto trades him to Buffalo for some of their young players. And this is coming from someone who is a fan of Marner’s game. I would love a Jack Quinn, Cozens for Marner type deal.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner is back and our PP looks like Simpsons soccer game again

They were certainly slower at moving the puck than last game.

4 or 5 PP goals in a row with Mitch not on the ice?

continuing to ice a good team might have actually been the correct move

He may have finally figured it out too late.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I love both Auston and Big Willie Styles, but so far this year neither has been our best or most important player. You gotta at least admit that this season he has been our best and most important player. It's not even been close, really.

Mitch has the most assists, but I'm not sure that makes him either the best on the most important.

Willy has more than twice as many goals, and over 50% more than anyone else on the team. Both Willy and JT have more GWG. Either stat could be considered more important.

Willy is at least as good a passer and stickhandler, and a much faster skater with a much harder and more accurate shot. A fair argument that Willy's the best or at least a better player.

Mitch has more assists.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not a single GM was tendering him an offer sheet for $11m or he would've taken it.

I was talking about signing him for 10.9m in our situation. Every team would do that. Not every team would do an offer sheet for that much, because that also costs draft picks and puts a target on your back. But there were two offer sheets, and it's likely that at least one was for more money. Marner didn't take them because he wanted to be a Leaf, not because of what the offer was.

the fact is he was not worth more than $9-$9.5 AAV on the open market at that time.

The fact is he was worth what he signed for.

 

[Antropovsky]

Yeah, Marner's playoff stats have been really inflated by that Vezina calibre goaltending his team has averaged facing throughout his career.

Guess we can dismiss everybody's points from series where they faced worse goaltending, right?

Yep 3 goals and 11 assists. Show us all the plays you consider him as the play driver. Because I've watched the goals many times. Points for playing with very skilled players (Matthews). If you disagree.. youtube the Tampa clip with all the Leaf goals and point us to the time of the goals that he was the play driver. Each time I've asked this... you ignore or refuse. I've done it many times myself to indicate how he's just dragging along on the coat tails of the play of his incredible teammates (ie Matthews).

Gonna be interesting to follow Rantanen and Necas since their trades:

Necas has 8 points in 7 games with Mackinnon.

Rantanan has 1g 2 points in 6 games with Carolina since being taken from Mackinnon.

 

[thewave]

Yep 3 goals and 11 assists. Show us all the plays you consider him as the play driver. Because I've watched the goals many times. Points for playing with very skilled players (Matthews). If you disagree.. youtube the Tampa clip with all the Leaf goals and point us to the time of the goals that he was the play driver. Each time I've asked this... you ignore or refuse. I've done it many times myself to indicate how he's just dragging along on the coat tails of the play of his incredible teammates (ie Matthews).

Gonna be interesting to follow Rantanen and Necas since their trades:

Necas has 8 points in 7 games with Mackinnon.

Rantanan has 1g 2 points in 6 games with Carolina since being taken from Mackinnon.

That just makes me not want Rantanen or Marner. We need a good Dman or C. D is more important

 

[francis246]

Yep 3 goals and 11 assists. Show us all the plays you consider him as the play driver. Because I've watched the goals many times. Points for playing with very skilled players (Matthews). If you disagree.. youtube the Tampa clip with all the Leaf goals and point us to the time of the goals that he was the play driver. Each time I've asked this... you ignore or refuse. I've done it many times myself to indicate how he's just dragging along on the coat tails of the play of his incredible teammates (ie Matthews).

Gonna be interesting to follow Rantanen and Necas since their trades:

Necas has 8 points in 7 games with Mackinnon.

Rantanan has 1g 2 points in 6 games with Carolina since being taken from Mackinnon.

I want to be more civil in conversation with you and less fishing for arguments.

Don’t you feel this is a bit nitpicky? Does it really matter how the goals were scored? Knies for example is not a line driver, scores a lot of his goals off tips and rebounds. Should we diminish his goals as well because he didn’t drive the play that lead to the goal? It just seems like there really isn’t a strong foundational argument here. It’s just you don’t really love the player, which is fine. But he still scored the goals, whether they were tap ins or long wristers it’s shouldn’t matter. A goal is a goal.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Show us all the plays you consider him as the play driver.

Each time I've asked this... you ignore or refuse.

That's not true, of course. We've gone over this a number of times. And what happens every time is you arbitrarily conclude that everything Marner did was either worthless or harmful, no matter what it is. Just like you have for every point he's ever gotten in his career.

Maybe one day, he'll get a point that you recognize as legitimate, but I'm not holding my breath. I'd probably suffocate.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I love both Auston and Big Willie Styles, but so far this year neither has been our best or most important player. You gotta at least admit that this season he has been our best and most important player. It's not even been close, really.

The post I commented on said nothing about "this year" or "this season".