Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[Gary Nylund]

Agreed. The fans picked on him merciless. I bet he walks for free for the abuse he took even though he was our playoff leader in points. Marner is uneducated and does not do well with a camera in his face. I bet he is just counting the days until he can go somewhere where he is appreciated.

LOL. I guess you also missed him recently talking about how he's treated like a god in Toronto.

NHL players are severely under paid, because the cap was low many players used limited/full NTC’s and NMC’s as leverage to sign. Maybe as the cap goes up we’ll see less of them.

Based on what?

 

[francis246]

LOL. I guess you also missed him recently talking about how he's treated like a god in Toronto.


Based on what?

Relative to other athletes in other major sports. Bench NBA players are making more than Connor McDavid.

Same with utility infielders making more than start NHLers. IKF a blue jays was making 7.5 a year for example.

Chris Boucher on the raptors makes 10.81 USD per year.

 

[Craig Button]

They know that marner Tavares Willy and matthews ALL of them have disappointed in the playoffs
Even if they lose in the first round they will still sign marner
They are a worse team without him and don’t give me the we can replace him with a 7 and 6 million dollar replacement
They will never ever lose a player like marner for nothing allowing him to UFA

He can only be replaced with an Elite playmaker and an elite power play killer

Fortunately for him there’s no one else in The NHL that is great at both as he is

 

[Gabriel426]

You are right but in the AVs/Canes trade, I would say Ranta is the Kawhi and Necas is the Derozan.

Rantanen is the closest to Kawhi as he won a Cup, performed in playoffs and in his prime.

 

[Gabriel426]

Relative to other athletes in other major sports. Bench NBA players are making more than Connor McDavid.

Same with utility infielders making more than start NHLers. IKF a blue jays was making 7.5 a year for example.

Chris Boucher on the raptors makes 10.81 USD per year.

As much as I agree with you to some extend.

We also needs to look at the revenue each league generates and the percentage of the revenue towards the players.
Kind of like Women footballers wanting equal wages with Men Footballers, the % is actually higher in Women football but the amount is tiny compared to Men as Men bring in a lot more revenue.

Like I think the highest NBA contract is 63mil or something, there 2/3 of the NHL cap.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Relative to other athletes in other major sports. Bench NBA players are making more than Connor McDavid.

Same with utility infielders making more than start NHLers. IKF a blue jays was making 7.5 a year for example.

Chris Boucher on the raptors makes 10.81 USD per year.

Just because there's more money in other sports doesn't make NHL players underpaid. The money is what it is, the owners and the players negotiate how they divide the pie and that's that.

As much as I agree with you to some extend.

We also needs to look at the revenue each league generates and the percentage of the revenue towards the players.
Kind of like Women footballers wanting equal wages with Men Footballers, the % is actually higher in Women football but the amount is tiny compared to Men as Men bring in a lot more revenue.

Like I think the highest NBA contract is 63mil or something, there 2/3 of the NHL cap.

You could look at lacrosse where players are in a similar place to where NHL players were way back when - most players had other jobs in the off-season in order to make ends meet.

Like you said - the revenue is what it is. It would be stupid for an NHL player to complain that he's underpaid when these guys are among the richest athletes in the world.

 

[francis246]

As much as I agree with you to some extend.

We also needs to look at the revenue each league generates and the percentage of the revenue towards the players.
Kind of like Women footballers wanting equal wages with Men Footballers, the % is actually higher in Women football but the amount is tiny compared to Men as Men bring in a lot more revenue.

Like I think the highest NBA contract is 63mil or something, there 2/3 of the NHL cap.

Like I said it’s relative to their counter parts. They are definitely under paid. And there’s a reason players have been pushing for higher salaries. There’s no reason why the NHL’s best player shouldn’t be able to command more.

If you actually do research this is what The owners wanted the whole time. It’s the whole reason why they locked out in 2005. They wanted a restrictive cap to control player salaries. I get we are all trained to look at things from a team first point of view. But players prior to 2005 were making $10 million. Almost 20 years later they are making the same salaries. That really has nothing to do with revenue. The revenue has been there for the NHL. That’s why we are seeing such drastic increases now because they are 20 years behind, instead of scaling appropriately every year since 2005. The older players in the league are also to blame, it’s why so many players regret 2005, they just wanted to play, they didn’t understand what they were agreeing to.

Completely understand some teams were going bankcrupt in 2005 as well. But there still could have been a better sliding scale.

This video explains it better.

 

[francis246]

Just because there's more money in other sports doesn't make NHL players underpaid. The money is what it is, the owners and the players negotiate how they divide the pie and that's that.


You could look at lacrosse where players are in a similar place to where NHL players were way back when - most players had other jobs in the off-season in order to make ends meet.

Like you said - the revenue is what it is. It would be stupid for an NHL player to complain that he's underpaid when these guys are among the richest athletes in the world.

The average NHLer is not even close to being among the richest athletes. As with everything. You have outliers at the top and outliers at the bottom. But I’ll have to find it, I’m not even sure if NHLers are even top 5 in terms of average athlete salary.

Also when you factor in the risk of injury vs salary it’s even worse. NHL players and NFL players have among the highest risk of injury and the NHL average salary is just barely higher than Serie A and Liliga. The players have a strong argument. Is it good for business, no but they have a legit argument for higher salaries.

 

[Mr_Fun]

Yeah but you know the interwebs, you're either on one side or the other, and if you're on the blue team then the red team is going to slag ya!

Yeah, pretty tribal, much like politics.

 

[Antropovsky]

This thread is hilarious. To some small degree, I kind of hope Marner does walk for nothing so people get to enter the find out phase where they realize you can’t cobble together a team any more cheaply through free agency by picking over the scraps.

Would be interesting to see how quickly the pack turns on Auston and Willy when it is finally their turn to shoulder the blame too.

So whats your thoughts on the posters who wanted him traded for years now? Before his nmc kicked in? Who, in the past, suggested he be traded picks or ready prospects or established players ie Tkachuk or Eichel when they were available?

Two wrongs don't make a right. If management doesn't think he's worth keeping... don't keep him. Even if he walks for nothing.

Also he made it clear he will not waive under any circumstances.

Once he's signed, your not getting rid of him. We are stuck with him. Thats something to also consider.

Additionally, McDavid is available at the end of next season. Do you have a crystal ball? Will McDavid not want to come to Toronto?

 

[Racer88]

@ 1 Marner at 12 million or @2 Bennett at 2 c for 8 million plus another 4 million dollar tanev/mccabe type?

Easy choice @ 2.

All day long

There is no chance that Marner signs without a NMC.

Then don’t sign him. Time for the team to take back the power from these guys.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Then don’t sign him. Time for the team to take back the power from these guys.

That's not taking back power. That's just making ourselves worse.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Like I said it’s relative to their counter parts. They are definitely under paid. And there’s a reason players have been pushing for higher salaries. There’s no reason why the NHL’s best player shouldn’t be able to command more.

If you actually do research this is what The owners wanted the whole time. It’s the whole reason why they locked out in 2005. They wanted a restrictive cap to control player salaries. I get we are all trained to look at things from a team first point of view. But players prior to 2005 were making $10 million. Almost 20 years later they are making the same salaries. That really has nothing to do with revenue. The revenue has been there for the NHL. That’s why we are seeing such drastic increases now because they are 20 years behind, instead of scaling appropriately every year since 2005. The older players in the league are also to blame, it’s why so many players regret 2005, they just wanted to play, they didn’t understand what they were agreeing to.

Completely understand some teams were going bankcrupt in 2005 as well. But there still could have been a better sliding scale.

This video explains it better.

Every time I see pictures of them facing each other like that it always looks to me like their faces could fit together like supercontinent Pangea.

 

[Confucius]

The average NHLer is not even close to being among the richest athletes. As with everything. You have outliers at the top and outliers at the bottom. But I’ll have to find it, I’m not even sure if NHLers are even top 5 in terms of average athlete salary.

Also when you factor in the risk of injury vs salary it’s even worse. NHL players and NFL players have among the highest risk of injury and the NHL average salary is just barely higher than Serie A and Liliga. The players have a strong argument. Is it good for business, no but they have a legit argument for higher salaries.

No they don’t, the NHL doesn’t come close to generating the money NBA teams do.
NHL players are doing well to make 10% of what an NBA player makes.
Minimum wage NBA 1.1 million, minimum wage NHL 775,000

Add in NBA has a smaller roster The NBA tv deal being worth 10 times the nhl deal


NBA
After several months of negotiations, the NBA reached an agreement with ESPN/ABC, NBCU and Amazon Prime Video in a new $76 billion, 11-year contract. The media rights agreement begins with the 2025-26 season and represents an increase of 160% per season compared to the current contract.Jul 29, 2024

NHL
The NHL signed new seven-season television deals last year: Disney will pay the league $400 million annually in the U.S., while Turner Sports added $225 million per season. In comparison, the NHL concluded a 10-year contract with NBC that paid $2 billion, or $200 million a year, at the end of last season

 

[Racer88]

That's not taking back power. That's just making ourselves worse.

So is signing this guy for 14 million for 8 years.
If they want all this money they need to at least give the teams some flexibility.
Even if its a limited in the last 2-3 years

 

[francis246]

No they don’t, the NHL doesn’t come close to generating the money NBA teams do.
NHL players are doing well to make 10% of what an NBA player makes.
Minimum wage NBA 1.1 million, minimum wage NHL 775,000

Add in NBA has a smaller roster The NBA tv deal being worth 10 times the nhl deal


NBA
After several months of negotiations, the NBA reached an agreement with ESPN/ABC, NBCU and Amazon Prime Video in a new $76 billion, 11-year contract. The media rights agreement begins with the 2025-26 season and represents an increase of 160% per season compared to the current contract.Jul 29, 2024

NHL
The NHL signed new seven-season television deals last year: Disney will pay the league $400 million annually in the U.S., while Turner Sports added $225 million per season. In comparison, the NHL concluded a 10-year contract with NBC that paid $2 billion, or $200 million a year, at the end of last season

What does that have to do with NHL players being justified in asking for wage increases in line with the revenue that their league is making? No one is advocating for them to be paid 25 million a year. But the league has grown since 2005, revenue is up since that time period. For salary to be very similar to what it was 20 years ago is not reasonable. The growth of revenue has not been that slow. That’s what the players are arguing. It shouldn’t have taken them 20 years to get to this point.

The players argument isn’t that they should be paid exactly the same as NBA or MLB players. But those leagues also haven’t tried to actively keep player salaries at a capped maximum for as long as the NHL has. They worked with the players to ensure they were fairly compensated at a steady rate as revenue increased. I’m turn the players in those leagues have been more willing to forego different things in CBA negotiations. Such as NBA players agreeing to a max contract of 5 years, no trade protection even if you are superstar ect. The NHL has done anything but that despite increased revenues each year. You add on escrow which further limits the players from actually earning their full contract. Yes the absolutely have a strong case for higher salaries. Maybe not astronomical but higher than what the upper limit is currently set to.

 

[Jojalu]

Look at Ottawa. Do they have a 13 million dollar player? They will soon be better than us at a fraction of the cost to their key players. This whole stupid model is about to implode. Soon even Montreal will rise with all their young guys on good contracts. We screwed up the day we hired Dubas and over paid. We now need out of this mess, not deeper into it.

Blaming Dubas for today's team doesn't fly anymore.

He gets all the blame for their initial contracts and their failures while he was here.

Tre could have traded anyone of the core outside JT after he arrived.

Instead he overpayed Nylander, got cooked on Matthews for only 4 years. Did not trade Marner in the past offseason and is now dragging out the inevitable extension where Marner will use the rising cap to get even more.

The first thing a new manager/CEO does when arriving is try to trim the fat. The Leafs brass did the opposite.

Not to say Tre hasn't done a good job at acquiring some blueline help, and hopefully a legit #1 goalie, but he is responsible gor where the Leafs are now.

 

[therealkoho]

You’re remembering some really weird stuff I see. You’re ok there?

Sharp pickup there, atta be! Hun you Hun you! big fella yeah!

 

[therealkoho]

Yeah, pretty tribal, much like politics.

For sure Kat, Doug Ford stepped in it today, no doubt about his tribe and where hes at. I'm taking back all the nice things I've said about him the last few days

 

[Confucius]

What does that have to do with NHL players being justified in asking for wage increases in line with the revenue that their league is making? No one is advocating for them to be paid 25 million a year. But the league has grown since 2005, revenue is up since that time period. For salary to be very similar to what it was 20 years ago is not reasonable. The growth of revenue has not been that slow. That’s what the players are arguing. It shouldn’t have taken them 20 years to get to this point.

The players argument isn’t that they should be paid exactly the same as NBA or MLB players. But those leagues also haven’t tried to actively keep player salaries at a capped maximum for as long as the NHL has. They worked with the players to ensure they were fairly compensated at a steady rate as revenue increased. I’m turn the players in those leagues have been more willing to forego different things in CBA negotiations. Such as NBA players agreeing to a max contract of 5 years, no trade protection even if you are superstar ect. The NHL has done anything but that despite increased revenues each year. You add on escrow which further limits the players from actually earning their full contract. Yes the absolutely have a strong case for higher salaries. Maybe not astronomical but higher than what the upper limit is currently set to.

You are mistaken
For the 2005–06 season, the salary cap was set at US$39 million per team, with a maximum of US$7.8 million (20% of the team's cap) for a player.

How much is the cap next season? Much more than 39 million I believe.