Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[DarkKnight]

Augment… that sounds sooo like dubas. Those words have scarred me lol

I guess we can retain them, but is it the best option is once again present. Because while yes we will have more cap than many of us thought, So will the rest of the league.

If someone believe MM+WN+AM are a winning combination than I completely agree with your take, however I’m not too sure they are so I’m hesitant to see it the same way.

I think we are living and dying with this core. The cupboard is bare, we have limited trade potentials, so the real alternative is to go out and overpay in free agency, for lesser players. With the cap rising, teams suddenly have an abundance of future cap space, so we will marvel at the over payments this summer and next. Letting Marner walk for free is crazy imo, and now with this cap, we really don’t have too. Also, the Matthews and Nylander deals look less egregious.

 

[thewave]

You can just feel the spidey senses tingling for the Marner PR crew.

You will be reprimanded very promptly for not proclaiming how dramatically superior to Rantanen he is.

Option C IMO is the one that works for both parties. You wanna have your money kid? Go ahead and have it, but the perks of Toronto can come and go in an instant.


Wingers just do not have the same pull that centers do. Gaudreau is the only winger since the covid era to hit real FA and he didn't get nearly as much as people thought he would. Usually teams get these guys locked up on good deals before they hit UFA, and once again, not very high numbers at all. Look at the numbers Tampa, Minnesota, Florida, etc.. all got Kucherov, Kaprizov, Tkachuk on. All 11-12% range. Avs even did Rantanen a solid by offering a bit more than that. But they clearly know the market and aren't tolerating any nonsense.

I agree 100% and 12.1% on 95m is 11.5m. These guys are just all about money, nothing about winning. It's not like they don't understand that you need cap to get the depth to win.

My choice is also C. I hate NMCs and I hate being boxed in. Being in business and putting yourself in that position is not fair and it's almost always the losing proposition. You could probably also make the argument that the next CBA is likely to do away with these long guarentees etc. I can't imagine the league rolling in this runaway train direction going forward.

Leafs are the only organization happy to assume all the risks, overpay etc for virtually everything. They are drunk on their riches and the product takes the hit because they have so many voices in those offices that they don't know what they are doing.

Waive or no NMC are the best. The 12m x 8 with full NMC may still be movable as well. Watching the year play out is fine but the the offers should be on the table before 4 nations

 

[Hallonbroder]

Anyone arguing the new increased cap shouldn’t matter isn’t a serious person.

Also, this is great news for the Leafs, means we can retain 3 big salaries and still have room to augment.

They will overpay yet another “big salary guy” and buy even more into a core that has failed for 9 straight years without any kind of improvement. I’d argue that no serious person would extend and buy even more into a core that fails

 

[ToneDog]

No.

Wait until the end of this years playoffs before deciding whether to sign him to any amount. Shouldn’t be too long to wait. End of April.

 

[hullsy47]

They will overpay yet another “big salary guy” and buy even more into a core that has failed for 9 straight years without any kind of improvement. I’d argue that no serious person would extend and buy even more into a core that fails

They know the cap now .marnet should sign any day now
Or give it the final offer

 

[ToneDog]

They will overpay yet another “big salary guy” and buy even more into a core that has failed for 9 straight years without any kind of improvement. I’d argue that no serious person would extend and buy even more into a core that fails

Avs, SC winners, refused to buy into a core that won. Leafs continue to buy into a core that has failed 8 out of 9 times. Doing it their way for 57 years without a single SCF appearance to show for it.

 

[Hallonbroder]

Avs, SC winners, refused to buy into a core that won. Leafs continue to buy into a core that has failed 8 out of 9 times. Doing it their way for 57 years without a single SCF appearance to show for it.

9 out of 9. One series does not equal success

 

[Apex Predator]

With the cap going up I see Marner getting between 13-14 million now.

 

[Hallonbroder]

With the cap going up I see Marner getting between 13-14 million now.

Sad thing is that some posters here will be happy that he’ll squeeze out that much cap out from their beloved team, as evident from the likes you received. Perhaps they’re the SDP-crew?

 

[francis246]

Panarin.

With Gaudreau there was clearly a blunder by him or his agent. Maybe he was too specific and pigeon holed himself to too small of an area, not sure.

It would be interesting to see Marner and Rantanen hit the market at the same time. That would really show us the FA market for wingers.

Gaudreau said when he went on SC, that he was only looking at a few teams. Teams that were close to his hometown and that’s it. He made the decision together with his wife, he probably could have gone elsewhere but they were committed to playing somewhere that was drivable for his family in NJ. They had a young family and wanted the parents to be close to help. They wanted Philly, but Philly couldn’t clear the cap space.

 

[Antropovsky]

With the cap going up I see Marner getting between 13-14 million now.

Wonder if Sakic knew this and still traded Rantanen.

 

[Apex Predator]

Wonder if Sakic knew this and still traded Rantanen.

If he did then he most of soured on Rantanen due to behind the scenes stuff or contract talks when really bad.

 

[hullsy47]

With the cap going up I see Marner getting between 13-14 million now.

We nerd a 13 millon dollar defenseman
or 2 more tanevs

 

[Stringer Bell]

Nothing about the way Marner is playing tells me his playoff performance will be any different. He's basically doubling down on a style right now that just doesn't work in the playoffs. Great to see in the regular season though. But he won't have any of the time or space to do what he tries to do right now.

So what's he going to do? Throw a reverse hit? Grind? Cycle? Get to the middle of the ice? Take it to the blue paint? Actually shoot the puck on the net from inside the hash marks instead of a soft clapper from outside?

Let's get serious here.

 

[thewave]

Nothing about the way Marner is playing tells me his playoff performance will be any different. He's basically doubling down on a style right now that just doesn't work in the playoffs. Great to see in the regular season though. But he won't have any of the time or space to do what he tries to do right now.

So what's he going to do? Throw a reverse hit? Grind? Cycle? Get to the middle of the ice? Take it to the blue paint? Actually shoot the puck on the net from inside the hash marks instead of a soft clapper from outside?

Let's get serious here.

He said we played our game. I guess he means we did what Berube told us to do. So if you didn't like the way the game went for us, it wasn't the players ok. It was Berube.

He lives in his own universe and yeah we saw how he refused to pin the puck in the corner to run the clock down at the end. Pathetic.

We nerd a 13 millon dollar defenseman
or 2 more tanevs

And depth that is effective and can keep up. What started out fine turned into a near disaster. Bostonesque collapse.

 

[ToneDog]

Nothing about the way Marner is playing tells me his playoff performance will be any different. He's basically doubling down on a style right now that just doesn't work in the playoffs. Great to see in the regular season though. But he won't have any of the time or space to do what he tries to do right now.

So what's he going to do? Throw a reverse hit? Grind? Cycle? Get to the middle of the ice? Take it to the blue paint? Actually shoot the puck on the net from inside the hash marks instead of a soft clapper from outside?

Let's get serious here.

He's magically going to morph into a soft Wedel Clark in April (LOL). He is what he is and we've seen it for 8 years. Made a nice play on his goal last night but in the playoffs, he passes the puck to Edmondson.

 

[thewave]

Nothing about the way Marner is playing tells me his playoff performance will be any different. He's basically doubling down on a style right now that just doesn't work in the playoffs. Great to see in the regular season though. But he won't have any of the time or space to do what he tries to do right now.

So what's he going to do? Throw a reverse hit? Grind? Cycle? Get to the middle of the ice? Take it to the blue paint? Actually shoot the puck on the net from inside the hash marks instead of a soft clapper from outside?

Let's get serious here.

Exactly this.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Nothing about the way Marner is playing tells me his playoff performance will be any different. He's basically doubling down on a style right now that just doesn't work in the playoffs. Great to see in the regular season though. But he won't have any of the time or space to do what he tries to do right now.

So what's he going to do? Throw a reverse hit? Grind? Cycle? Get to the middle of the ice? Take it to the blue paint? Actually shoot the puck on the net from inside the hash marks instead of a soft clapper from outside?

Let's get serious here.

He knows he only gets paid for regular season performance.

 

[Gabriel426]

Gaudreau said when he went on SC, that he was only looking at a few teams. Teams that were close to his hometown and that’s it. He made the decision together with his wife, he probably could have gone elsewhere but they were committed to playing somewhere that was drivable for his family in NJ. They had a young family and wanted the parents to be close to help. They wanted Philly, but Philly couldn’t clear the cap space.

In a way, Johnny took a home town discount.
Imagine a top UFA doing that.

I really don’t see why Leafs or MM want to get a deal done now.
Unless MM gets a career ending or altering injury, nothing will affect his next deal even if he bombs in the playoffs, as there will always be a team or two that want the star power and buzz of signing a top UFA.
Same with Rantanen.

 

[Gallagbi]

Wonder if Sakic knew this and still traded Rantanen.

I'm sure he did, I think the question is whether it was the right move or not.

There's a lot of early praise for am Avs trade that has zero results this early.

 

[Gabriel426]

He's magically going to morph into a soft Wedel Clark in April (LOL). He is what he is and we've seen it for 8 years. Made a nice play on his goal last night but in the playoffs, he passes the puck to Edmondson.

Speaking of Clark.

I really think he will have a sort of JT Miller incident with the Nucks top players if he is playing with the Leafs over the past few years.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm sure he did, I think the question is whether it was the right move or not.

There's a lot of early praise for am Avs trade that has zero results this early.

Trade can't be judged based on this year because they'd have nothing going forward next year and beyond if they allowed him to walk for nothing. With the cap ballooning and Ranta willing to give a significant discount, they should easily have kept him.

 

[thewave]

Trade can't be judged based on this year because they'd have nothing going forward next year and beyond if they allowed him to walk for nothing. With the cap ballooning and Ranta willing to give a significant discount, they should easily have kept him.

With the latest projections. You're probably right. Rantanen 8yrs 11.75m with those projections is fine. On the bright side we can offer him 12 if we want.

 

[Jojalu]

As expected, the cap is going to rise rapidly the next three years. Marner at 13 looks less and less egregious. Also, expect free agents to get way over paid, so this idea we can go find value elsewhere, less likely. We can sign Marner, AND have room for other players with the cap acceleration. Three big contracts are fine.

Just sign him.

Interesting that Friedman was saying that 113 might be the low end of the cap rising over the next 3 years.

Teams having 25-30 million xtra a year is going to be very interesting.

Nylander could very well take up under 10% of the cap by 2027.

Marner ends up 12-13%

If they don't resign JT, the core takes up only about 35-38% and they can round out the roster with some depth

 

[Legion34]

Wonder if Sakic knew this and still traded Rantanen.

Sakic isn’t gm. But ultimately they all knew. Podcast hosts were clearly signaling this all of last year.

They had paid of 99% of the Covid debt last year. And the revenues last year already had the cap in the high 90s for this year. If Johnston. Seravalli and Adam Wylde lol knew then I think Colorado would. They had the projections for “this year” last summer. Your cap is 1.5% of revenues. So if the league made 6.4 billion last year then this year the cap should have been 96 million not 88

With the latest projections. You're probably right. Rantanen 8yrs 11.75m with those projections is fine. On the bright side we can offer him 12 if we want.

If rantanen was really planning on 11.75x8 getting traded to Carolina was a blessing for him