Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[29Potvin]

To build around what, Marner and Matthews in their early-mid thirties?

If he we don't win anything in 3 years it's curtains on this whole show dude.

So signing Mitch to 8yrs

To build around what, Marner and Matthews in their early-mid thirties?

If he we don't win anything in 3 years it's curtains on this whole show dude.

Whats the option? You pay Willy and Mitch for 8yrs and let Matthews walk?
Or are you saying you let Mitch walk for nothing afrer this seasons? Mitch isn't waiving this season.
So
Option 1 is own rental let him walk
Option 2 sign him and continue to run it back for the next 3 years with AM/MM and Willy and hope Matthews sticks around?

 

[ToneDog]

Hypothetical of all hypotheticals.

Which would you rather?

Marner 13M x 8
Marner defers 1.07M per year so it's 11.93M cap
NMC
All the signing bonuses etc

Rantanen 14M x 7
Rantanen defers 2M per year to get the cap hit to 12M
NMC
All signing bonuses

Ranta the bigger, stronger goal scorer but if I wanted to start a glee club or boy band, it would be Marner all day.

 

[IPS]

So signing Mitch to 8yrs

Whats the option? You pay Willy and Mitch for 8yrs and let Matthews walk?
Or are you saying you let Mitch walk for nothing afrer this seasons? Mitch isn't waiving this season.
So
Option 1 is own rental let him walk
Option 2 sign him and continue to run it back for the next 3 years with AM/MM and Willy and hope Matthews sticks around?

I am 1000% letting Matthews walk, yes. These guys aren't gonna be in their primes forever. Soon enough you're gonna have even more expensive players who aren't even producing at the rate they used to. You might be able to scrounge another couple years of contention with M&M aging into their 30's but good luck after that, we're already Chicago paying Toews/Kane with none of the success, you don't exactly go up from there.

 

[ToneDog]

So signing Mitch to 8yrs

Whats the option? You pay Willy and Mitch for 8yrs and let Matthews walk?
Or are you saying you let Mitch walk for nothing afrer this seasons? Mitch isn't waiving this season.
So
Option 1 is own rental let him walk
Option 2 sign him and continue to run it back for the next 3 years with AM/MM and Willy and hope Matthews sticks around?

Sign Marner for less money than Ranta, and only for 4 years.

 

[Stephen]

You'll find people on both sides of the aisle here so it'll be interesting to watch this one play out. Ranta is special but you don't need to have more than Mack and Makar. This will give them flexibility over the next eight years to shape the roster and Necas is a pretty good start.

A lot of strategic parallels with the Leafs. They won round one after declining on dubie and winning a cup. If we keep Marner than round two begins.

I get the roster construction side of things. You can go top heavy with star power led teams or you can build a pack rat mentality and both can be successful.

I'm just not sure about the sequence of it: I've ever seen a team start off top heavy and get worse at the top in favor of lower end balance, and that leads to a championship. Usually what happens is a star power led team starts to lose a step, they trade away a guy and the whole thing fizzles out. Maybe Winnipeg counts as a team that transitioned away from a few stars? But they're not a championship team.

We shall see.

 

[francis246]

Normally they would have met in the middle between $12.6m and $14+. Say $13.5 but no chance if Sakic refused to go over $12.6m, as some insiders have said. Maybe, as @IPS said, Ranta felt slighted in his last contract which led to hard feelings. No idea.

I’ll respond to this in a few, listening to a few reaction videos from people who cover the Avs, boy they are pissed lmao.

Different theories out there. I don’t think Rantanen asked for a trade, so I’m not buying that he felt slighted. Reports said he was open to negotiations still, sounds like he wanted to stay.

From listening it sounds like Avs management may have had enough. He held out the last time around. Wanna finish the videos though but interesting to hear fans/people who cover the teams perspective.

 

[Gabriel426]

If I am the Leafs, I would say to MM, whatever the number we decided, 30% or more needs to be deferred money inorder to keep the Caphit down to build a better team.
That’s should be a hard line from the Leafs.
Sign him for 13mil/yr and if his cap hit is 9.2mil, everything is good.
Same with JT, sign him for 6mil/yr while
His caphit being 4mil is good.

 

[leafs in five]

this is how Avs dealt with the situation


Does Treliving have the guts to do the right thing?

I wonder if Mackinnon agrees that trading Rantanen was the right thing to do

 

[francis246]

To build around what, Marner and Matthews in their early-mid thirties?

If he we don't win anything in 3 years it's curtains on this whole show dude.

Why are we acting like mid 30’s is a death sentence? Didn’t ovie win at 32/33? Sharks core made their cup finals in their mid 30’s. How old was Ray Bourque? It’s not impossible given their skill level. Should we do it, is another question.

 

[francis246]

Sign Marner for less money than Ranta, and only for 4 years.

For once we agree. If I’m the leafs I want Marner back but on a 3 or 4 year deal.

 

[29Potvin]

Sign Marner for less money than Ranta, and only for 4 years.

I agree, I hate teams being locked inton players longterm i also dont believe player should get full NMC/NTC

 

[keonsbitterness]

I've been predicting four years for awhile. $13 point whatever million and a limited NTC for the final year should satisfy both parties.

 

[ToneDog]

I've been predicting four years for awhile. $13 point whatever million and a limited NTC for the final year should satisfy both parties.

Marner's not accepting a limited NTC unless he gets an even more ridiculous number. They also gave Willie 8 years which makes me think, Marner gets 8 years if he wants 8 years.

 

[hullsy47]

For once we agree. If I’m the leafs I want Marner back but on a 3 or 4 year deal.

I think that the holdup the leafs only want him 3 years

 

[keonsbitterness]

Marner's not accepting a limited NTC unless he gets an even more ridiculous number. They also gave Willie 8 years which makes me think, Marner gets 8 years if he wants 8 years.

I think Nylander got eight due to the perception of him being slighted compared to the other two during the last round of negotiations.

I expect the Leafs won't budge from Matthews being the highest paid player, and Marner has to accept that if he wants to remain here.

 

[danny90]

What is the value to signing him before the post season finishes?

If he has a good post season, he will not have earned more than he's already asking for. And if another team backs up the truck for him, and he wants to accept that over a very, very reasonable (most likely overly reasonable) offer from us...then he doesn't really want to be here and we use that open 11-13 million to spread around multiple holes.

If he has a very poor post season then we can much better assess what we really want to do.

I just don't see any value to signing him prior to the post season. None.

I don’t think the offer is going to change based on what he does in the post season, it’s up to Marner if he wants to move on.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Curious does it take into account linemates? Nylander has played with 3rd liners most of the year.

Even if they don't Willy has easily outperformed JT this year (and even more so last year). Unless they weigh position and faceoffs very heavily and virtually ignore skating, passing, and shooting, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why are we acting like mid 30’s is a death sentence? Didn’t ovie win at 32/33? Sharks core made their cup finals in their mid 30’s. How old was Ray Bourque? It’s not impossible given their skill level. Should we do it, is another question.

It's not a death sentence, but thinking that this group might win at that age after so many years of playoff failure while in their primes isn't logical. We've been trading futures for years trying to "win now", it's more than likely that we'll continue to do so by the time these guys are 32/33, they'll be a few years into their decline, the cupboards will be bare and there will be nothing left to trade.

All signs point to our window closing in the not too distant future. It's win in the next ~3 years, or fugeddaboutit.

I think Nylander got eight due to the perception of him being slighted compared to the other two during the last round of negotiations.

I expect the Leafs won't budge from Matthews being the highest paid player, and Marner has to accept that if he wants to remain here.

I think Nylander got eight because he wanted 8. If the others wanted 8, they would have obviously gotten 8 as well but they wanted shorter terms thinking that would mean more money for them in the end.

I think it also shows that Nylander wants to be here more than M&M. Surprising that it's him and not the home town boy that seems like he really values playing in Toronto but that's the way it looks.

 

[francis246]

It's not a death sentence, but thinking that this group might win at that age after so many years of playoff failure while in their primes isn't logical. We've been trading futures for years trying to "win now", it's more than likely that we'll continue to do so by the time these guys are 32/33, they'll be a few years into their decline, the cupboards will be bare and there will be nothing left to trade.

All signs point to our window closing in the not too distant future. It's win in the next ~3 years, or fugeddaboutit.

I think Nylander got eight because he wanted 8. If the others wanted 8, they would have obviously gotten 8 as well but they wanted shorter terms thinking that would mean more money for them in the end.

I think it also shows that Nylander wants to be here more than the M&M. Surprising that it's him and not the home town boy that seems like he really values playing in Toronto but that's the way it looks.

Last I checked Toronto still has their picks well into 2030?

So the cupboards won’t be dry. They will draft other good players. If scouting holds up that’s exactly what you want. These guys ushering the young guys.

Well let’s hope they get Marner on an LNTC. That would help make sure we can get some assets. Pastrnak having one in his new deal gives me hope that Toronto can hold a firm line on that.

 

[hullsy47]

Now he’s third best
Man the stuff you read here daily.

Sorry but willy styles and papi sell the brand
Marner isnt worth more than either of those

 

[BraveCanadian]

Going to be really interesting to see how MR does without MacK. Assuming Carolina has a deal lined up for him or they wouldn't have made this move.. funny how desperate people are to compare his situation to Marner.

 

[ToDavid]

this is how Avs dealt with the situation


Does Treliving have the guts to do the right thing?

Shouldn’t we wait to find out if trading away your second best player was the “right thing”? Because I see an Avs team that is significant worse today than it was yesterday.

0-1 so far…

 

[Evilhomer]

this is how Avs dealt with the situation


Does Treliving have the guts to do the right thing?

I doubt it's Treliving's decision. This kind of contract gets approved above his head, and I doubt very much that the guy above Treliving will do anything other than give Marner the number he wants.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Last I checked Toronto still has their picks well into 2030?

So the cupboards won’t be dry. They will draft other good players. If scouting holds up that’s exactly what you want. These guys ushering the young guys.

Well let’s hope they get Marner on an LNTC. That would help make sure we can get some assets. Pastrnak having one in his new deal gives me hope that Toronto can hold a firm line on that.

This years 1st is gone already, correct? They have some picks today (so does every team in the NHL), that doesn't mean they won't trade most of them. That's what they've doing for years, if you have some reason for thinking they'll stopping spending futures to win now while M&M are in their primes, feel free to share.

Nylander got his NMC, I'd say the chances of Marner signing without one are near zero.

Going to be really interesting to see how MR does without MacK. Assuming Carolina has a deal lined up for him or they wouldn't have made this move.. funny how desperate people are to compare his situation to Marner.

He's a great player, he'll probably play with Aho who's a fine player, no reason to think he won't still be a force. Great move by Carolina, I like their chances of breaking through this year.

 

[ashs]

Not enough shots today